NLBS #26: Eric Garner's Death, and the Hypocrisy of the NYPD's Broken Windows Policing

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Race baiting?

Yeah race baiting.

Zimmerman,Brown,Garner.

The hot 'issues' making the national news.

I put it simply down to , The prosecutor and the police are colleagues, I don't think they have an unbiased approach with the grand jury when it comes to indicting one party of the equation.

There's a lot of bias towards cops.

Hell ATS has dedicated a special forum for it.

a reply to: neo96

I dislike catchphrase terms like feminazis , race baiters, sheeple, blah blah. anyway thats an aside.


I don't see the posse comitatus (spelling :O ) forum having anything to do with judicial fairness in the United states.

My point was they are colleagues, It's like having a coach and a sports athlete appearing in front of a tribunal with no other party to dispute or present facts, there is likely going to be a bias .

a reply to: zazzafrazz

The facts were presented as in 4 videos.

The autopsy was provided.

60 witness presented Garners 'side' in both ways.

And then there were the facts like these:

2. The video of the July 17 incident clearly shows Garner, an African-American, swatting away the arms of a white officer seeking to take him into custody, telling him: "Don't touch me!"

3. Garner, 43, had history of more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980, on charges including assault and grand larceny. Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...

4. At the time of his death, Garner was out on bail after being charged with illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, marijuana possession and false impersonation. Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...

www.newsmax.com...

7. Much has been made of the fact that the use of chokeholds by police is prohibited in New York City. But officers reportedly still use them. Between 2009 and mid-2014, the Civilian Complaint Review Board received 1,128 chokehold allegations. Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...

And yet we are only talking about one.

a reply to: neo96

What did the Medical examiner say?

.......

I think you are missing the premise of what I am saying regarding bias and secrecy within GJ process.
I'll leave it at that.

(sorry, mistook the name) carry on

I always watch your vids man and enjoy them.

Along with the posse comitatus forum, are police killing more people and getting away with it than ever before,
or is it lower now than in years past?
I know you showed the amount of times police officers have been indicted in Dalllas 2008-2012 but what about say 50 years previous was it higher or lower?

I'm not condoning anything I just want to see the full picture.

originally posted by: Taggart
I always watch your vids man and enjoy them.

Along with the posse comitatus forum, are police killing more people and getting away with it than ever before,
or is it lower now than in years past?
I know you showed the amount of times police officers have been indicted in Dalllas 2008-2012 but what about say 50 years previous was it higher or lower?

I'm not condoning anything I just want to see the full picture.

Numbers about police brutality are not reported. To find out how many officers were indicted state by state within 50 years would take a lot of work.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: ausername

There are the usual trolls and bigots that come out of the woodwork at these times, but for the most part the threads on this case seem to indicate the majority of the membership think the wrong decision was made.

I don't.

None of us had access to the info the grand jury did.

Apparently courts of law are meaningless anymore.

What carries more weight is the kangaroo courts of public opinion.

I think people have forgotten just how and why stringing people up, and hanging from trees went out of style.

Yet this is actually exactly what they are doing, isn't it? They might not use rope anymore but a barrage of other tools. It's despicable and what other evidence could there be that is more convincing than that video?!? You can clearly hear one of the cops saying 'he's down', as in you can get the eff off of him now, he's down.
This is why our country is still divided, you can see something like this and still blatantly deny the facts!

And to get off subject and beat the horse some more:
No one can say what happened between Michael Brown and the officer. But what I CAN say and ANYONE should be able to see.
No matter what happened between those two, not one procedure was followed properly. At the very least that PD should be looked into a whole lot closer, instead of just letting them go about business as usual.
Just remember, where there's smoke there's fire.

It is becoming clear that the Police in the USA are planting evidence and making it up as they go along and are blackmailing witnesses into collaborating their version of events by finding something like weed on them and then reaching a deal to let the walk if they cooperate to distraught the truth.

A man filming a police officer should not have his home searched and then get done with trumped up charges about downloading copyright Torrents and the USA is in desperate need of a truly independent police complaints authority that people can trust.

The Kangaroo courts system needs to be ripped down and we need to start again from the bottom and not from the top.

a reply to: Taggart
No one keeps any meaningful stats when it comes to the police it seems. I think it's for a reason. If we could look up say, how many SWAT noknock bull# raids happen per year nationwide, and also see how many of those raids resulted in any convictions of crimes... I think the people might start to question the legitimacy of police forces having SWAT teams, and how they are used for example. They can't have that.

originally posted by: neo96
Apparently courts of law are meaningless anymore.

A Grand Jury is NOT a court of law.

That video is too sad for words...

a reply to: neo96

Wow. Yes we're only talking about one incident, because it's the one caught on video that ended in one man dead, and another waving, smiling, and joking around with his buddies after he had just murdered a man over a crime they had no evidence he had committed.

Nothing he did justified what happened, not his criminal background, not the fact that he was "swatting their hands away", none of it.

I can't believe what you're saying. It's absolutely absurd.

a reply to: neo96

None of those "facts" from the exceptionally biased and credibility-challenged NewsMax site (see Newsmax - Fake news site with an agenda, that tries it's best to seem legit ) are a factor at all.

I don't care if someone is wanted for murder. If he's unarmed and backing away from cops -- that have not said he's under arrest -- there is no cause to kill him on the spot.

And I've looked at the aftermath video several times. There is no video evidence to suggest he was alive before he was put on the gurney, and significant evidence to suggest he had passed away.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Honestly, I hope those EMTs get fired, or at the very least sent back to training. What we saw was a blatant disregard for life. It was painfully obvious that, to the EMTs, Garner's life wasn't a life worth saving any more than it was to the cops that took it.

a reply to: windword

They were suspended without pay for not attending to Mr. Garner.

I can't find the link to the story (might be in one of the original threads here), but several people were saying (to the NY Post I believe) that the EMT's knew he was dead when they arrived, and were merely working with the cops. This was to make it seem otherwise because of the person standing right there recording what was happening.

originally posted by: Tardacus
if you won`t accept the grand jury`s decision and move on then you`re basically saying that you don`t support our system of due process,without due process we would have anarchy.
when you commit a crime and then resist arrest you have accepted responsibility for whatever might happen to you.
if you value your life then you won`t put it at risk by committing crimes and resisting arrest.
when you choose to cross the line and become involved in criminal activity, one of the occupational hazards is that you might be killed.

Numerous times Americans have rebelled against the system of due process(starting with the founding) when that system of morally bankrupt. That I am not a British subject (maybe even slave) laboring for 16 hours a day for next to nothing makes me VERY GLAD that some Americans have risked anarchy*.

Hell, have you ever heard of the Boston Massacre? I'm pretty sure most classrooms don't spin it as cautionary tale about brave agents of British law being left little choice but to use lethal force in the face of thuggish mob.

*I don't buy this narrative that society is two seconds away from Mad Max and that society has this massive ready-reserve of wannabe rapists and murders only being held in check by thinnest of blue lines. This implies that this is the natural state of affairs, which is B.S. Our ancestors were living in groups socially before our ancestors were human. From the day you are born to the day you are die, you are trained in how to function lawfully within society. This civilizing process has made average people remarkably peaceful compared to people...on any time scale past 1950. People that aren't/won't be trained are shunned and the number of highly functioning sociopaths is small. The apocalypse will be like Threads and not the Walking Dead, I.E. order will be the last thing to die.

Which is a lot of words to say that people would just start holding trials and enforcing order themselves even if every last American decided that the entire american justice system was worthless. Horrible and unjust drum-head trials and tyrannical order by vigilantes (at first), but law and order nonetheless.

a reply to: theNLBS

Great video!

I shared this one on FB.

I just want to say that I am PROUD to see all of these protests take place. I hope they stay non-violent.

Perhaps we will see some changes!

a reply to: theNLBS

Okay, I'm really, REALLY getting tired of your inability to understand the legal system.

First off, let me say that I think this case should have received an indictment, and I feel--although, I don't KNOW--that the officer's actions led to his death.

BUT, you seem to have a tendency in these recent cases to confuse opinion with facts. You call the act "murder," yet, it's only "murder" if a jury convicts someone when evidence has been shown in court to have satisfied all of the elements of the charge.

Secondly, the medical examiner's OPINION that it was death by homicide does not make that a legal determination, so you really shouldn't treat it like one.

Please understand me here: I think that if this case were to go to trial, he'd probably be convicted of something having to do with the death (probably not murder, as that necessitates an intent to cause the death, which I would hope most people could realize from the video that he was not intentionally trying to strangle Garner to death). But the language that you choose to use in your videos is nothing more that inflammatory rhetoric aimed to incite emotion in lieu of discussing the facts.

I could get that from watching CNN.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: neo96

None of those "facts" from the exceptionally biased and credibility-challenged NewsMax site (see Newsmax - Fake news site with an agenda, that tries it's best to seem legit ) are a factor at all.

I don't care if someone is wanted for murder. If he's unarmed and backing away from cops -- that have not said he's under arrest -- there is no cause to kill him on the spot.

And I've looked at the aftermath video several times. There is no video evidence to suggest he was alive before he was put on the gurney, and significant evidence to suggest he had passed away.

How about WIki then?

Already know the answer.

Garner had been previously arrested and was out on bail for selling untaxed cigarettes, driving without a license, marijuana possession, and false personation. Garner had a criminal record that includes more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980 on charges such as assault, resisting arrest, grand larceny. An official said the charges include multiple incidents in which he was arrested for selling unlicensed cigarettes.[24][25][26]

en.wikipedia.org...

Nothing says 'justice' like milking the public for 75 million dollars of tax payer dollars.

For a habitual criminal.

Litigation $75 million lawsuit filed by Garner's family against New York City, the New York City Police Department (NYPD), and six NYPD officers[5]