Chemtrail pushers/believers: you should be ashamed of yourselves

a reply to: Deveron

Spider web

www.metabunk.org...

Please stop fear mongering and spreading disinformation, I know it's probably not deliberate, but it doesn't help your cause to embrace so many blatent lies.

a reply to: Deveron

I am just glad this has ZERO to do with chemtrails. I mean any idiot would know that 50-60 foot long fibers dropped from 8 thousand feet is not white puffy cloud like lines that dissipate into cloud cover.

Why did you reference chemtrails? Please tell us you know the difference.

a reply to: Deveron

You mean the stratospheric aerosol geoengineering we keep hearing about

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Deveron

Spider web

www.metabunk.org...

Please stop fear mongering and spreading disinformation, I know it's probably not deliberate, but it doesn't help your cause to embrace so many blatent lies.

Sorry. Didn't know this was maybe a false story. But I don't think you should quote from metabunk.org. That was the site that tried to convince people the Hijackers Passport found on Ground Zero on 9/11 was a Fact when it is actually a Hoax!!

So a Lie for Lie doesn't help!

a reply to: Deveron

Actually, the information is what is important. If you can prove that isn't the truth, then we have a valid argument, but if in fact it's spiderwebs, like the article states, then you do not have to live in fear.

originally posted by: Deveron

Sorry. Didn't know this was maybe a false story. But I don't think you should quote from metabunk.org. That was the site that tried to convince people the Hijackers Passport found on Ground Zero on 9/11 was a Fact when it is actually a Hoax!!

So a Lie for Lie doesn't help!

Evidence?

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

do you mean this thread on Satam al Suqami's passport?

this should probably be in another thread - but that looks like a discussion of the evidence - someone went to metabunk claiming the passport wasn't "kosher" (sic) evidence - and then those claims were discussed. And the errors in the claims the OP made about the passport were easily identified.

What's the problem with that? Why wouldn't you want the bunk removed - do you prefer to believe bunk even when you know it is bunk??

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Why?

Because you clearly believe that something quite dramatic and bad for the human population is being done on a daily basis and you are doing nothing about it.

You could be mankind's savior, become famous, earn lots of money and shut us debunkers up...

Insults have been hurled by both sides...sure. But far more from your side calling us paid shills, disinfo agents etc...

So, what an i suggesting? Why don't you:

- Go to lots of airports from around the world (organise yourselves) and get sample of jet fuel and take it to independent labs and get it tested for additives that should not be in there. This alone, if you find anything, will be a HUGE deal since it will be indicative of a major crime being committed.

- Track thousands of flights over months/a year that you think are spraying. Use binoculars and online tracking sites to record the flights, that way a pattern will emerge on which planes are spraying, when etc....

- Take thousands of photos of said planes, build a case file.

- While you are doing that, go online and get the air conditons for that day and your area. Consult Appleman charts for EACH specific day to see if long contrails might be due to weather conditions. Tie these to each day in a manner that can be easily referred to by anyone. Again, if something is going on, it should start to become evident.

- Keep a detailed not of the weather conditions on each day. Since long contrails form frequently ahead of rain, a big deviation from this might be proof of something nefarious happening.

- Hang around airport back roads (as much as you can without being arrested) and keep a detailed diary of which trucks are delivering what and to where. Is the fuel going to a weird location at the airport? Write it down. Maybe its somewhere where they are adding the stuff you think they are adding. Keep notes of what other trucks deliver what to that area.
Keep special note of any chemical trucks. If they are unmarked. Follow them when they leave. See where they originate. It might be a chemical company. Since no one has ever done thins, it might be this simple. The important thing here is to build a case, keep a note of times, when things are delivered. etc...

- A bit harder to do...but make friends with aircraft engineers in bars frequented by the staff at airports. Get to know em, speak to them. Build up a picture of ANYTHING they might find weird about the planes they work on. It might not reveal much, but ANY info they might be able to tell you might be the missing piece to the info you have collected above.

- This one is very important: Debunk the science of persistent contrails. Go to contrailscience.com and tell the owner of the site where he is wrong. If the science is wrong, PROVE IT. He has asked you countless times to do so and no one has. Now...i understand. You say "its not up to me to prove it", but if you want to save humanity, your children's futures, bite the bullet, take on the challenge and show us that it is US who have misunderstood 100 years of meteo science. This is exceedingly important thing to do as it will be the foundation of your case.
You have got to tell us where we have misunderstood about cirrus clouds not creating rain etc... You have to (pardon the pun) pick holes in our theory of the start and stopping on contrails due to gaps in the supersaturation of the air. Please please please (a hundred times) tell us what we are misunderstanding.

- Stop using known liars who routinely post doctored photos or easily debunked articles. If they are selling stuff on their websites or have a "donate" button, then don't use them as proof. They have an ulterior motive and will only harm your case. Stay as FAR away from these people as possible. They WILL harm your case. Come in clean and honest.

- Use your detailed log of the flights going over you and the weather on that day to prove that the checkerboard patterns you are witnessing that day are not simply due to regular jet airway patterns and wind blowing the previous planes contrails to the side a bit until the next one comes...I mean, it seems fairly straightforward, but armed with your detailed notes, you can throw egg in our faces.

- Finally, start a kickstarter fund or find a rich chemtrail believer to pay money to hire one of the many air sampling planes you can hire to fly into the chemtrails you see and take samples. Obviously samples from the ground cannot be used since there are way too many sources of pollution down here. And remember that pollution can travel for thousands of miles. Here in London we routinely wake up to find fine sand on our cars that has come over from the Sahara. Sure, this might be pricey, but if that guy could get 50K to make that silly film, i'm sure you can raise the money for a plane hire for the day.


Now, i realise that all this is extremely time consuming and some aspects can be expensive. BUT, think of the service to mankind you will be providing. You will saving 7 billion people. You familes, your kids, their future kids...the world will be in your debt for exposing this heinous crime against humanity. You will be rich. Famous. And everyone will owe you a debt.

How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch the world getting poisoned?
How can you just sit there on your a**es while you watch your kids breathe in this filth?

Get organised and do the above. Notice i used the word "detailed" a lot...because it is with scrupulous note taking and collecting ALL the details that you can get the basta*ds who are poisoning you mums and dads and your newborn babies...

No one has said this so far in 20 pages of chemtrails posts...but this is the big one. If true, this is one of THE most important things to bring into the public eye. This isn't about moon landings or even 9/11...this would affect us all and i cant think of any greater conspiracy to uncover.

OR:


Just keep coming on here and posting links to youtube videos and unrelated patents..Your choice. Your move. Prove US wrong. Be the bigger man/woman and prove to us that you are right and we are being sprayed. This isn't a playground, this is serious (if you are right)

Good luck!

So how do you react to the fact that Elite Think Tank Admits to Ongoing Climate Engineering Experiments?

phys.org...

For the first time, modeling research led by Pacific Northwest National Laboratory found that atmospheric particles can brighten cold clouds in the Arctic. Using simulations, they showed that low clouds over the Arctic may be brightened by deliberately injecting small particles known as aerosols. It's already well known that injecting aerosols into low clouds over the warm ocean can, in some circumstances, reduce the amount of sunlight that reaches the surface. The concept, untested over the Arctic until now, is called marine cloud brightening, and it can also happen when ships send exhaust into the atmosphere.

originally posted by: AmenStop


So how do you react to the fact that Elite Think Tank Admits to Ongoing Climate Engineering Experiments?

phys.org...

For the first time, modeling research led by Pacific Northwest National Laboratory found that atmospheric particles can brighten cold clouds in the Arctic. Using simulations, they showed that low clouds over the Arctic may be brightened by deliberately injecting small particles known as aerosols. It's already well known that injecting aerosols into low clouds over the warm ocean can, in some circumstances, reduce the amount of sunlight that reaches the surface. The concept, untested over the Arctic until now, is called marine cloud brightening, and it can also happen when ships send exhaust into the atmosphere.

it's not news - simulations like this have been going on for years.

no one says that there is not investigation into the various possibilities.

a reply to: AmenStop

So how do you react to the fact that Elite Think Tank Admits to Ongoing Climate Engineering Experiments?

And how is one supposed to react concerning computer modeling?

a reply to: AmenStop

Are you sure you fully understand the article you posted?

It uses language like "modeling research" and "simulations", nowhere does it claim that anyone is actively doing any of these things. It's really important to watch this kind of stuff, but it's equally important to comprehend the verbiage so you don't go alarming the easily manipulated folks.

originally posted by: sorgfelt
a reply to: 3danimator2014


I have in the past year been convinced that there is something real to this chemtrail issue, in particular due to one or more military whistleblowers who are being ignored or lost in the noise.

Is one of those "military whistleblowers" Kristen Meghan?

Scores of chemtrailers hang off her everyword so why does she get it so badly wrong. See her following video "7 planes play etch a sketch"



She claims

Those of you familiar with aviation are fully aware planes do not fly directly into each other, this close, out in the middle of nowhere...

Seriously? Is it any wonder that aviation professionals and aviation enthusiasts laugh at what she is claiming? She stumbled into chemtrails from doing "research" on the internet and it shows badly. She is ex-USAF so why is aviation and aviation procedures so alien to her?

See following for more detailed response to her video.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I said earlier, and I still believe you would be crazy to use coleman lantern fuel in a jet engine. Yes, it probably would fly as one member said. And also that it would mean rebuilding the engine afterwards. But my original statement is still valid - you would be crazy to use coleman lantern fuel in a jet engine. Its not a great fuel for a jet engine and could easily cause potentially catastrophic problems. Its not clean fuel. At least not as clean as jet fuel. You could clog injector nozzles or even cause a flame-out. Its not guaranteed to happen, but I wont take that chance at 35,000 feet. You can if you want to, and bring your whole family along for the fun of it. I wont.

As for theory and proof: the absence of proof does not preclude its existence. I stand by that statement. Theory - that which is yet to be proved. Edison failed in proving his theory about the incandescent light bulb more than 10,000 times before he got it right. He could have stopped anywhere along the way but he did not accept the idea that the lack of proof prohibited the possibility.

In regards to my statement about a sprayer nozzle array so large it could be visible from six miles away... I simply suggested that it didn't have to be such a large and complicated system, it could be as simple as an orifice on the bottom of the nacelle. I didn't claim that's what it was or that it was what I was looking for. I only said it could be that simple. That is all. It could be that simple. If you refuse to accept that as a possibility with out proof, fine. I am not interested in proving or disproving it. My only interest was in keeping an open mind and accepting the possibility in the absence of proof of the contrary. If proof is so important, then may I respectfully suggest that you prove it doesn't exist. In case you are wondering...yes, I mean on every single plane that flies anywhere. And you may as well include time travel because the possibility exists that it may have been on a plane a few years ago but has since been removed.

So, for those of you whom are so absolute in your desire for proof - Merry Christmas. This should keep you busy all year...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel


As for theory and proof: the absence of proof does not preclude its existence. I stand by that statement. Theory - that which is yet to be proved. Edison failed in proving his theory about the incandescent light bulb more than 10,000 times before he got it right. He could have stopped anywhere along the way but he did not accept the idea that the lack of proof prohibited the possibility.

So what? What has Edison got to do with "chemtrails"?

If chemtrails existed there would be a MASSIVE amount of evidence - it cold not be otherwise.

And yet there is not one single piece of verifiable evidence for their existence - no fuel samples, no pictures of any spraying apparatus, no verifiable whistle-blowers, no trucks carrying suspect material, no aircraft load sheets, no maintenance programmes shoing how to maintain the chemtrail apparatus, etc., etc.

NOT ONE.

In regards to my statement about a sprayer nozzle array so large it could be visible from six miles away... I simply suggested that it didn't have to be such a large and complicated system, it could be as simple as an orifice on the bottom of the nacelle.

Fine - how about no evidene of such an orifice - you can get quite close to aircrafft at an airport, and use telephoto lenses to take very dtailed shots.

Heck aircraft mechanics crawl all over the aircraft - I am an aircraft mechanic for civil airliners that I KNOW have made persistent contrails....they have no such apparatus, no storage facilities, no piping, no swirches....no nuthin'

If you refuse to accept that as a possibility with out proof, fine. I am not interested in proving or disproving it.

Why not - what is wrong with you?

If someone is spraying illicit materials I would certainly like to prove or disprove it. If all you are doing is "just asking questions" then you are part of the problem

My only interest was in keeping an open mind and accepting the possibility in the absence of proof of the contrary.

There is ample EVIDENCE to the contrary - ignoring it makes a mockery of you claim to be "keeping an open mind" - ignoring it means you are not actually interested in looking at all the evidence and weighing it up - it means you have a closed mind.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You keep an open mind that there might be secret spray equipment on secret aircraft all over the world, but your mind is closed to the possibility that since nobody has an evidence of such things, they might NOT exist?

I'll agree with you that yes, all of what you said is possible. But in order for it to be a reality, there would have to be lots of things that cannot be hidden. A plane already exists that sprays liquid from nozels out the wings.



All you have to do is prove there are hundreds of them and they are flying all over the world spraying.......something.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Chem-trails are real . . .its Geo-engineering and I know the son of the man in charge of Arizona and Texas. He is the only person I have ever met that has three citizenship's; Dutch , South African and America. Lockheed- Martin manufactures the parts attached to large jets allowing the chem trails to happen. Believe it or do not . . .your choice.

a reply to: wakeup444

Then you shouldn't have any trouble proving it.

a reply to: wakeup444

Chem-trails are real . . .its Geo-engineering and I know the son of the man in charge of Arizona and Texas.

What does "In charge of Texas and Arizona" mean? How does that work?

Lockheed- Martin manufactures the parts attached to large jets allowing the chem trails to happen.

What large jets? Are they private, commercial, or military perhaps?

If you've got a story to tell then at least try to tell it. Details?

a reply to: wakeup444

What's to believe? You could hardly be any more vague. I have a strong suspicion that you've been told something that you believe. I'm not so sure you understand why you believe it if what you've posted is all you've got.

well here's a summary of recent investigation into weather modification use in Wyoming as a plan for Arizona - they are thinking it is a viable since Vyoming is a watershed for Arizona -

This study indicates that cloud seeding likely deserves its relatively newfound respectability as a water supply strategy, but also that its impacts are far too small for it to be a panacea for the West’s water woes.

Central Arizona Project has funded cloud seeding in Wyoming for over 8 years - in fact it has funded cloud seeding in multiple states since 2006 -

Central Arizona Project, along with the Southern Nevada Water Authority and Metropolitan Water District of Southern California has funded pilot snowpack augmentation programs in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming since 2006.

CAP is managed by the Central Arizona Water Conservation District - here's the board members - so unless you can show that Texas is somehow pat of CAWCD it seems someone is telling porkies......