Reason.com:GamerGate: Part 1 Sex, Lies, and Gender Games

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

That doesn't mean we are valueless or teach our daughter she must be subservient to men.

I don't see how any man who truly loves his daughter could.
What I want for my daughter above all is that she be happy.

Funny side story, this non-at times-anti-feminist, is raising a daughter as a single parent mind you.
Who will most likely be going into the STEM fields.
Too young to completely tell as of yet, but she enjoys and is good at science.
And I fully encourage her in whatever she chooses to do.
In fact, I must admit I'd be rather let down if she went the traditional route.
Though I'd never tell her that.

originally posted by: Kali74
There's been idiocy and severe wrong doing on ALL sides of this. It's idiotic to say Quinn deserved any of the hate and threats she received. Quinn and anyone staunchly defending her was idiotic in stating that the entire gamer culture was misogynist. It's idiotic to deny there's significant misogyny in gamer culture. It's idiotic to deny there's misandry going on as well.

SPEAKER: I'm sure the reader is aware that there are 'pet' games. Where one has to 'feed' the pet and pay attention to the pet or it gets depressed. Well ... this woman made a game about what it would be like to be someone with depression.
RANDOM AUDIENCE VOICE: That doesn't sound very fun.
SPEAKER: Which is exactly why people were suspicious when the game was listed in the top ten of a few articles. And it turned out that she did "sleep her way to the top". But despite what social media would have us weigh, gamers didn't care, they considered it "resourceful" and didn't think twice about it.

The day before GAMER GATE there was different definition on the internet.

A gamergate (pronounced /ˈɡæmərˌɡeɪt/) is a reproductively viable female worker ant that is able to reproduce with mature males when the colony is lacking a queen.
-Wikipedia

We are not a hive of insects chemically craving a queen.

originally posted by: Kali74
To men: Gaming does not belong to you, it isn't your playground.
To women: Not all men are evil misogynists.
To gamers: There's enemies and then there's tilting at windmills. Learn the difference.

1. I am waiting for the female god of gaming, like John Carmack the male god of gaming. Someone who brings major technological breakthroughs.
2. I am skeptical that any man ever was, except Jack The Ripper.
3. But what if Cortez did strike down the sun wheel, and they _were_ giants.

Till woman kind produces another godly programmer, I will not, nor any male gamer I know, accept attempts to redefine what gaming means to us. We are not a hive of insects chemically craving a queen. We are the largest wave of human beings in the history of known existence, and we are _ALL_ cybernetically augmented. In gaming we gain experience and skill. Until a woman can contribute to that in a meaningful way we are not going to just suddenly forget our own self selected purpose and let feminists shame their way into the room. They don't even know where the room is. And further, since they are feminists we can ignore the whole thing because we are certain they will _never_ find the kitchen.

Till then, the room is still open for a real woman to stride onto the scene. If she can see it.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

I'm a feminist, I don't see the point in trying to rename my philosophy because some people like to use the term to abuse women. It makes me more determined to stand up for what I believe. I was bought up by strong single father to be a strong women, and all of my kids will recognise themselves as feminists in the true sense of the word.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

No True Scotsman is a logical fallacy by which an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing; this fallacy also applies to defining a term or criteria biasedly as to defend it from counterargument which can be identified as a biased, persuasive, or rhetorical definition. Instead of acknowledging that some members of a group have undesirable characteristics, the fallacy tries to redefine the group to exclude them. Sentences such as "all members of X have desirable trait Y" then become tautologies, because Y becomes a requirement of membership in X.

The fallacy does not occur in defining a group or label narrowly to begin with, but in narrowing it by excluding evidence that contradicts an initially broad definition.

rationalwiki.org...

And as I said before, while you may not be as extreme as certain feminists, you still accept the same axioms.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Reading the article would fix that.

GamerGate refers to the online backlash against perceived breaches of journalistic integrity on video game news sites that occurred as a result of the Quinnspiracy, an online controversy surrounding indie game developer Zoe Quinn’s alleged affairs with a number of men working in the video game industry, including Kotaku staff writer Nathan Grayson.

knowyourmeme.com...

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
Well fair enough people can be ignorant but I find it insulting at 37 to be called a petty whiney girl by someone who doesn't know me.

Almost like being a white male being projected upon by people who don't know them.

History provides you with numerous examples of identifying with a "label" long past the time that label has been hijacked.

You can keep wishing it was "just" the simple thing you think it is, but it isn't. History is not kind.

a reply to: TrenchRun

The problem is, history can be editted.
And it continues to be editted to fit whatever ideological standpoint is currently dominating.

Further expansion of the story:

What critics of GamerGate get wrong
If you have been following recent news reports, you may have heard about an army of angry, thuggish male gamers marching under a banner called GamerGate. According to some reporters, this “lynch mob” will stop at nothing to defend its sexist turf. Is video game culture toxic?

If you have been following recent news reports, you may have heard about an army of angry, thuggish male gamers marching under a banner called GamerGate. According to some reporters, this “lynch mob” will stop at nothing to defend its sexist turf. Is video game culture toxic? I’ll consider the evidence next on the Factual Feminist.

#Gamergate is a Twitter hashtag. It attracts gamers from all over the world, male and female, republican and democrat, black and white, atheists and believers. Some gamers identify with GamerGate because they believe there is too much corruption and cronyism in gaming journalism. Others are weary of cultural critics who evaluate video games through prism of social justice.
A few weeks ago, I wandered into the war zone of GamerGate when I released a video about video games. I cited data that show that men are the dominant demographic in gaming. I pointed out that evidence does not support the claim that video games cause sexism and misogyny. I also deplored the treatment of women like Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn but noted that these threats should not be taken to represent gaming culture as a whole.

Gamergaters were amazed and grateful for my defense of their hobby. I was deluged with affectionate messages, declarations of support, and was even given a nickname—based Mom (based means cool). But game industry journalists were not happy with my video. Writers at popular game websites like Kotaku and Polygon once valiantly defended games from the erroneous charge that they lead to violence. But now, they eagerly joined gender activists who claimed that games engender misogyny. Colin Campbell, senior reporter at Polygon called me a “reactionary” and said that my apparent indifference to sexism in videos is an “irresponsible abrogration of our shared humanity.”

I don’t doubt Campbell’s sincerity. Many games do depict horrific violence and the mistreatment of women. There are scenes in Grand Theft Auto that horrify me, and I’d rather play a game based on the theme and characters of Downtown Abbey. But my game preferences cannot be generalized are certainly no basis for condemning others. Here’s where critics like Colin Campbell go wrong: they fail to connect games or things that occur in someone’s imagination to real life consequences. They need to show, not dogmatically assume, that video games make people sexist. The burden of proof rests with them. And intuitions that games, books, films, comic books, or songs are psychologically demanding and socially corrosive are rarely borne out in reality.
Critics might respond that we should be unforgiving of sexist tropes even if video games can’t be proven to cause misogyny. But what counts as sexism is unsettled—even among feminists.

Consider Bayonetta. Bayonetta is a powerful, charismatic lead female character created by a Japanese female game developer. She is a wildly popular video heroine, and one feminist critic even wrote that she “exudes feminism.” But leading pop critic Anita Sarkeesian disagrees. She says that “Everything about Bayonetta’s design is created specifically for the sexual pleasure of straight male gamers.” She cites a decades old feminist theory about the “male gaze” and how it objectifies and demeans women. But “gaze theory” has evolved since 1975. It turns out that spectators might be able to gaze at a woman’s beauty and also identify with her on a human level.

originally posted by: WilsonWilson
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

I'm a feminist, I don't see the point in trying to rename my philosophy because some people like to use the term to abuse women. It makes me more determined to stand up for what I believe. I was bought up by strong single father to be a strong women, and all of my kids will recognise themselves as feminists in the true sense of the word.

All of that is irrelevant. If you are going to take offense when someone bashes feminists (due to the majority of active feminists intolerable behavior, mind you) then you should re-evaluate what modern feminists are and whether that is something you want to be. If it is not then find another group or create your own.

This conversation reminds me of that article about a KKK group that is open to all races. I'm sure there were Nazi's that liked the ideals until the majority went radical too, and I bet they dropped that label ASAP when that happened seeing as they were no longer content with the direction the group went.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Let me ask you this then, please answer honestly.
What is your opinion of MRA supporters?

And really, this is a open question to any feminist.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

I am content with the way feminism is going, just because a vocal minority are radical feminists doesn't detract from what I am. I don't feel the need to go out and find a new label for my beliefs.
I was offended at someone labelling ALL feminists as petty whiney little girls.
Just using the term little girls just shows the mindset of the poster.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

I'm not an expert, having had a quick look I can support their goals to improve the standing of men in family courts when it comes to access to their children after a divorce, and to be able to block adoption of their children, only makes sense to me if a mother can't or won't care for a child that the father be the next alternative.
Obviously it appears some factiona go to far and seem to want to force women back in to traditional roles.
And I don't agree that power in society has moved from the male dominated system.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

If it's male dominanted.
Why do males get shafted in court as you admit they do?

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

I personally don't object to men's well-being or strive against discrimination if there is any. MRA however seemingly isn't really involved in that and mainly seems to seek to propagate misogyny, while at the same time doing little for male spousal abuse/rape survivors, gay or black men but only use them as an argument when it suits them. At least, thus far that's my impression. Basically goes for that whole 'manosphere'. But what do you see in the movement?

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

You're talking about one area which is family courts, and that in itself is a product of a society where women are considered the childcarers.
Traditional ideas of gender can be just as confining for men as for women.

By the way, I agree with some posters that feminists tend to focus on petty issues at times and I think it's disrespectful in a way to the 'old' feminists to not acknowledge that we have it pretty good today. I'm so lucky to not having been born in the 1940s for example! Feminists do tend to discredit themselves and the whole idea and the way (as far as I know about it) they developed recently ticks me off. Still I don't think I somehow am inherently so stupid that I'm nowhere without the wise guiding of a man, as I'm not the lady from the 50s ad who seems baffled at the idea that she actually might be able to open a ketchup bottle.

As to gamer gate: Didn't they actively arrange the harassment and bullying before, deliberately with the intent of ruining this person and didn't the addresses of several people get publicised? That is really not how we should treat each other....

a reply to: WilsonWilson

You do realise how silly that sounds right?
Especially since the changes we are talking about and subsequent shafting came about because of feminism.
And yes, the system needed changing, it did unfairly shaft women.
But instead of fixing it, they changed who is getting shafted.
Feminists see no problem with this, one example of feminists not knowing or caring what equality actually means.
And in fact, groups formed to say how screwed up it is, gets labeled as promoting misogyny.

a reply to: Pitou

I suggest you read the material I provided.
If for anything to get a peek from the other perspective.

Small side note: I'm not ignoring your other post. I apologize but my ability to respond on my smartphone is limited and it deserves a more detailed response than I can manage atm.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

How silly what sounds?
I see a problem with men not being treated as equals in family courts, and I'm a feminist so saying we don't care is just wrong. Parenting to me should be a 50/50 concern as far as logistical possible.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Your money isn't worth more than mine.
Your voice doesn't count more than mine.
Your input not more valuable, nor your time.

There are many women developers that work on some great games but more than that there's a large number of female gamers and your argument is invalid. If you think we don't gain a voice til a woman creates a game changer perhaps only game changers should speak, I'm guessing that would mean your silence as well.