White teen killed by black cop in Alabama mirrors Ferguson...yet no outrage

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

Its been born into poverty and not been given a chance from the start that causes the behavior your talking about. White people can and do act the exact same way when exposed to the same circumstances.

I was born into poverty. Dad ran off, single working mom, raised by grandmother.

So you were raised in a working class family, not really what I had in mind when I said raised in poverty.

Working class family?

As opposed to what? Welfare?

My dad ran off because my mom was stricken with polio in the '52 epidemic. He couldn't face having a disabled wife and 3 children under 7.

Fact is she was offered public assistance. She turned it down.

Yes, she was fortunate she had a job and insurance at the time she was stricken. And that that company took her back ----- but, into a new position where she could work from a wheelchair for about half what she was making before.

Sorry to disappoint you that my mom chose to work rather then go on assistance.

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Except that they aren't doing nothing , that's just it. They are and do...

They protest. They petition officials. They hold signs. And yet people like you and the above poster seem to think they never do anything...

Again.... Because you don't hear about it. Because they are wreaking havoc.

The fact that you two even made the statements that you made are proof to the fact that it's not reported in main stream media...

Because it's not as provocative as a racially charged group of peoe burning neighborhoods and tearing up a town

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Yet again you're only reading what you want to read. I stated clearly in my post the opposite of what you said. I said they mostly support police and that they're all always exceptions in any race in any issue. Not all black people support the rioters, some support the police.

ATS is not your usual group of people. Most (again i use the word most, leaving room here) people here white or black are more informed of issues effecting people in general and tend to stray from the crowd when making decisions.

Most white people support the police, right or wrong. That's not really a huge leap in any direction, it is what it is. The Posse Comatatus forum does not totally negate anything.

I am a long time "lurker" and had to register just to reply to this thread. I am quite Black and so is my wife. We did not even discuss the Wilson/Brown case. I am , admittedly, on the net a great deal more than her and read about the case. I mostly read the comments on multiple forums (including this site). From some of the comments you would believe all 44+ million of us Black folks here in the good ol' U.S. of A showed up in Ferguson to protest and riot en masse. All i kept reading was "The Blacks..." this, 'The Black community...." that. I know this may be hard for some people to grasp, but we are not the Borg. We are not a colony of ants. We do not act as a collective. We do not have secret Blacker-berg meetings and plan the actions of all Black people on the planet. Some foolish people in Ferguson rioted, I get that. Why am I, here in Georgia, responsible for that? Some people have theorized, hypothesized, speculated (however you want to put it) that if Black people took personal responsibility for themselves they could improve their "community". Yet, when someone Black commits a nefarious act, somehow some people hold all other Blacks responsible. If you are rattling off the oft quoted "13% of the population, yet responsible for 40-80% of crime", I am talking to you. I do not have a criminal record, why am I responsible for those that do? I am sorry that Mookie or Ray-Ray down the street robbed you, but they did not stop by my house and give me a cut.

a reply to: Bundy

No I read exActly what you wrote....

Again there are absolutely no facts to support your "theory" that "most white folks support the police" no matter what they are told

No I think that "white" people. Are just as capable of weighing out the facts just like any other race is

You seem to think there's some cognitive processing difference just because the color of ones skin

Infact most of the movements to push for body cameras and other changes to the poice state have been initiated by.....guess who?

Who are the people coming across as racist again on this thread

Christ this is bordering on comical at this point

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Bundy


Christ this is bordering on comical at this point

Yeah, it is pretty funny how far you're reaching to sound correct. What i said obviously isn't some theory only i could cook up. Theirs at least one other person here who has come to the same conclusion from his own observations.

"No I think that "white" people. Are just as capable of weighing out the facts just like any other race is"
Yeah well so do i. Capable yes, but will they actually "weigh out the facts" or will they just listen to whatever the authorities tell them? Most would do the latter. I just spent the Thanksgiving week around plenty of white people in my family, guess what subject came up, and guess how many people buy all the # the police are selling? Out of the 15 or so white people i know and have talked to about this, me and one other are the holdouts. You can't call 2 of 15 the majority, no matter how much you'd like to.

I never said anyones thinking process is what it is because of what color they are. I would say it has much more to do with how they were raised, where they were raised, and what values their parents instilled in them.

a reply to: Bundy


So are u saying that because anther person agrees with you that it makes it fact?

You obviously believe that there are differences in their ability to believe the police or not based on race, or you would have never included the term "white" repeatedly in your posts...

I'm not TRYING to sound right. It makes perfect logical sense that it doesn't matter what your skin color is, yours and the other persons assumptions that "white people" just don't do anything about police brutality is a ridiculous notion

a reply to: mikecheque

Thank you for your post.

People are People --- they are not a group think. Although people do occasionally choose to come together to support various causes.

I do not believe for a second all the citizens of Ferguson support the rioting and destruction of their town. I'd bet some are pretty pissed off about it.

Unfortunately, as said: "If it bleeds, it leads".

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

i like you, i really do, but i don't think you're following thru with your observations. what i mean by that is, your life experience has given you valuable observations (working with the poor and minorities in social programs), and though you appear to commiserate with them, it's only thru your own "experience". typically, that's really the best way to approach our own problems, but when it's someone else's issue, we can't look at it thru our own experience any more and expect an unbiased result.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: mikecheque

Thank you for your post.

People are People --- they are not a group think. Although people do occasionally choose to come together to support various causes.

I do not believe for a second all the citizens of Ferguson support the rioting and destruction of their town. I'd bet some are pretty pissed off about it.

Unfortunately, as said: "If it bleeds, it leads".

Absolutely and there were actually several cases of the neighborhood people arming themselves and protecting the businesses from looters....

You definitely cannot lump them all into the same boat.

a reply to: mikecheque

Just gonna point out that many of your arguments can be applied to law enforcement also, and yet that never gains any traction. According to many on here, all LEOs are corrupt/racist/trigger happy/etc.

Not implying or saying that you've said anything along those lines at all, just pointing out that the same arguments can be applied to other "groups" as well.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

i like you, i really do, but i don't think you're following thru with your observations. what i mean by that is, your life experience has given you valuable observations (working with the poor and minorities in social programs), and though you appear to commiserate with them, it's only thru your own "experience". typically, that's really the best way to approach our own problems, but when it's someone else's issue, we can't look at it thru our own experience any more and expect an unbiased result.

I absolutely agree with you on that.

I do however think they are key observations that can be made that are obviously right and wrong regardless of how you grew up

And it's mostly to these instances that I'm referring to.

I'm sorry if some of my responses have seem to come across as convoluted. That's not the intention

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Except that they aren't doing nothing , that's just it. They are and do...

They protest. They petition officials. They hold signs. And yet people like you and the above poster seem to think they never do anything...

Uuuhhh....right. Because, as everyone knows, standing around and holding signs and petitions always get's sh*t done....not....lol.

Actually doing something about police brutality is a totally different matter, however.

The fact that these cases, and their lack of outcry, rarely ever make it to the media, further shows how little they care about police brutality, and are willing to ignore it. If they cared, we would be seeing more public outrage, more demands for independent investigative bodies, more action from elected officials.

So far, the only people I see raising a stink about the use of excessive force by cops are minorities, especially blacks, even though cops have used excessive force against people of all colors.

A few picket signs and angry words from a few college kids are not "action".

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Maybe the community needs to stop worrying about the police brutality and start worrying about the citizen vs citizen brutality... I know everyone likes to point blame at the cops for all that is wrong in the world, but the majority, HEAVY MAJORITY, of all crime and violent crimes against the citizens of these communities are done by their own damn people and not the police...

Protest all the criminals in the community...

a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

So you advocate that rioting and burning down businesses, trashing homes, stealing and assaulting people is the effective method to do this?

That's basically what you're saying,

Martin Luther King followed this same exact method of holding signs and peaceful demonstration and he changed the world

Are you saying he wasn't effective?

You state the only people you see raising the issue are minorities....

To that I would have to say you are either blind, not looking hard enough, or completely bias.....

All one had to do is search ATS or Google to find examples of this.....it's really not that hard

-
To add: I thought white people were also present at all the protests around the country for this case, or are you going to now tell me they were all minorities

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

perhaps it would be better stated that your experience and your understanding of that experience, is semi-blinding you to a reality that is hard for you to fully fathom. i don't mean to say that you aren't aware of it at all, but the degree to which you understand that, is limited by your fall back method - your personal experience.

erm, this is hard to explain. let me try a scenario:

let's say jonny is born into a household where the family rules are entirely different than your own family rules. and the community jonny lives in, is totally different than your own. and the marks of bravery and manhood are different. and the problems are different. the focal point in society is different for jonny. and etc.

you will both grow up to have a different center of gravity.

i'm not making excuses for people. i'm just of the opinion that we are all products of our life experiences, our innate personality (which has nothing to do with a person's tendency to steal) and our environments. these things are entirely out of our control, similar to being born male or female. the only way we can change them is to be aware of their effect on us and how it may modify us as human beings. the narrative doesn't need to drift that far to the left, to realize it's an issue every person on the planet has to struggle with.

a reply to: undo

True to a point but here's the issue

Looting , destroying, burning, assaulting people , threatening other people, reporters etc. are not acceptable no matter how you were raised.

The passing off of their behavior as "well they are frustrated". Could be used in the same situation w police brutality and their conditions going into hostile neighborhoods

That doesn't make it right on EITHER end. And is not a valid excuse for either group of individuals

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: undo

True to a point but here's the issue

Looting , destroying, burning, assaulting people , threatening other people, reporters etc. are not acceptable no matter how you were raised.

The passing off of their behavior as "well they are frustrated". Could be used in the same situation w police brutality and their conditions going into hostile neighborhoods

That doesn't make it right on EITHER end. And is not a valid excuse for either group of individuals

well since every person on the planet is a victim of lack of full knowledge, it may not be that easy. i understand what you are saying, that's why i said - it's not that you don't understand anything, it's that you are always looking at it thru your own lens. for example, if leaders in the black community want to help usher in full on marxism, then what you are witnessing is the effects of that. it isn't a problem the black "race" suffers from, morally or ethically, but the promise of a better future (which we all know is not what marxism actually delivers). it's literally, not their fault.

originally posted by: undo
I'm not making excuses for people. i'm just of the opinion that we are all products of our life experiences, our innate personality (which has nothing to do with a person's tendency to steal) and our environments. these things are entirely out of our control, similar to being born male or female. the only way we can change them is to be aware of their effect on us and how it may modify us as human beings. the narrative doesn't need to drift that far to the left, to realize it's an issue every person on the planet has to struggle with.

As I see it --- you are making excuses.

I've always stated --- culture is the hardest thing to change --- but, I still consider it an excuse.

Will a man ever know what it was (or is) like for a woman who was a product of the 50s --- before women's rights? NO. (Plenty of threads on ATS to prove that).

But, so what? This is the world I live in. What I do with it is up to me --- my choices. Pick one: "choice" or "excuse".

You'd never guess who I use as my inspiration in life: that person is: George Washington Carver.

a reply to: Annee

well naturally, with half the country yelling about it, it'll eventually cross the learning new approaches threshhold, only to smash headlong into our jobs being sent to china. back to square 1. again, this is not their fault.