Congress can block use of fees for immigration overhaul

a reply to: Dabrazzo

America, as a country, can no longer afford to give its own citizens a "free ride"

It's own citizens? What part of "illegal alien" don't you understand? They are Not citizens.

a reply to: DAVID64

Ill explain what that comment means with a little context for you.

You implied that illegal immigration is a problem as it causes dire financial consequence your country can simply no longer afford to bear as if somehow not subsidizing illegal immigration would make a difference. It will not make any difference. America is in such a dire financial state it can not even provide adequately for its own citizens.

And as I have already stated, the cost of illegal immigration to America is a pittance comparative to other expenditures. So I cannot even begin to comprehend why it is the financials that would bother you with regards to illegal immigration.

Am I right in saying this though?, its the money it costs your government that you are unhappy about?, when so much is wrong with your economy due to wastage, corruption, war etc its the cost burden you are concerned with?

Personaly I just dont understand that, thats all.

If you can help me understand your point of view more with regards to why the economic cost of illegal immigration outrages you, please do, cheers. I am genuinely curious, lots of people have lots of different reasons for not liking illegal immigration.

originally posted by: Xeven
Political suicide. Funny how GOP claim to like small government but you all want big government to control the Mexican workers? Hypocritical. Lie's to yourselves.

Even more GD hilarious the right gets called out about 'small government' I guess they conveniently ignore the largest expansions of government come from the left.

From gun control, to the big three medicare,medicaid, and social security. The hell the 3 most recent example of BIG GOVERNMENT 'liberalism' :

1. 1 trillion 'stimulus'.
2. Student loan debt has sky rocketed to over 1 trillion dollars since the left cut out the middle man.
3. By that 'executive' action the left has single handedly expanded those social programs. Because every knows illegals aren't rich people. So THEY WILL BE USING social programs.

And the ICING on the cake that infamous 'single payer' delusion of the government take over of healthcare.

Hell they also want to take over the banks too.

And damn I forgot the PINNACLE OF BIG GOVERNMENT 'LIBERALISM' . We must let the government regulate the planet to 'save' us.!

The right claims to be for 'small' government.

Hell the LEFT IS INFINITELY worse, and even MORE hypocritical because they claim the moniker of 'liberal'.

When everything they stand for is the antithesis of what the word means.

a reply to: Dabrazzo

If your family is deep in debt, do you still keep spending recklessly, or try to find ways to save?
We are in such deep debt, we will never see the end. Neither our children or grand children or even their children. But, even though we won't see a end to it, doesn't mean we should just keep spending. Our own citizens are homeless, kids going hungry, without proper clothes for winter, school districts scraping for money to continue programs that help, the list of things we lack proper funding for is endless. Yet, we throw billions away each year, taking care of people who are in this country illegally. We supply benefits for illegals, that our own citizens can't get.
Here's my bottom line, the thing that just bugs the Hell outta me. Illegal aliens cost this country billions and they come knowing they will be able to scam the system. Money that could be spent on our own problems. They are a massive drain on our resources, costing more than they contribute. Would it be fair for me to come to your country, bring ALL my relatives and expect you to take care of us? Food, housing, free medical care...Take money from a system we have not contributed to, and have no intention of doing so, but take every benefit from?
I welcome anyone coming to this country legally, with a mind to help make it a better place and a willingness to support themselves. But the freeloaders need to go.

a reply to: DAVID64

they come knowing they will be able to scam the system

Well you know, we have this problem here too however its not really every illegal immigrant, most people here living in the UK illegaly are funnily enough just people, like you or me trying to survive. I can guarantee there are more citizens of my country scamming the system than illegal immigrants are, even the corporations are scamming the system on a vast scale, so a few thousand people try it, hats off to them. Comparative to what the bankers and corporations steal from us and what the military spends, meh.

I just dont see it so black and white you know. This is an article from a while back concerning illegal immigrants who died while working in England, it quickly became apparent they were little more than slaves. I dont know to what extent they were here to "scam the system"

Cockle pickers died from drowning

And as I understand it a large part of your immigration comes from Mexico?, mate, Im sure you understand the situation in Mexico better than me, its now essentialy a third world country run by criminal cartels, 100% narco state, Mexico is a truly frighting place to live, I dont blame anyone for wanting to escape that, even if it means crossing an arbitrary border only to be labelled a criminal, I would do the same if it meant a chance of safety for myself and my family.

Would it be fair for me to come to your country, bring ALL my relatives and expect you to take care of us?

Not fair no, but I would probably do my best regardless, cause im a fairly decent human being and if you needed help I probably would help you the best I can.

Take money from a system we have not contributed to, and have no intention of doing so, but take every benefit from?

Sorry man thats quite a lot of generalizations, we both know illegal immigration and those who are infact illegal immigrants, many, pretty much the vast majority actualy contribute to the U.S economy they simply want a chance to have a normal life like anyone else and that any statistical coalition of data/stats to be found in the media is usualy always 100% skewed with a biased agenda.

Again this money business, its become apparent in recent years that basicaly all our nations banks and corporations have been ripping our economy off for quite some time, quite literally in U.S dollars your talking trillions, thats how much they have robbed from the people. And I somewhat suspect the media uses illegal immigration and what it costs the loyal ole tax payer as a distraction so people keep forgetting to focus on who the real criminals in our society actualy are.

I also a lot of historical reasons for immigration into America, before America stole what is now the southern states it used to belong to the Spanish Empire, most of America did and may go in some way to explain why America has always traditionaly had migration from Mexico or why ultimately it full of native Mexican people and their culture. I understand that was quite some time ago, however a bit of historical perspective I find can help.

Maybe you still disagree with it all, I dunno, I just think there are clear solutions to this issue without people having to get angry or violent about it all.

Also something else to bear in, in Europe there is something called the Schengen Agreement and now this may make your head explode but.

The Schengen Agreement led to the creation of Europe's borderless Schengen Area in 1995. The treaty was signed on 14 June 1985 between five of the then ten member states of the European Economic Community near the town of Schengen in Luxembourg. It proposed the gradual abolition of border checks at the signatories' common borders. Measures proposed included reduced speed vehicle checks which allowed vehicles to cross borders without stopping, allowing of residents in border areas freedom to cross borders away from fixed checkpoints and the harmonisation of visa policies

Thats over a dozen countries with free movement in between them all. These arbitrary borders dont quite have the same meaning in Europe as they do in America perhaps.

a reply to: xuenchen

i've been saying ever since the election that congress can cut his money off and he can't do squat.
they can kill obumacare this way too.

many here on ATS have said they still wouldn't have enough votes to do it. i said many dems would turn.
when you see the likes of Schumer saying that they never should have passed it you know there are more going to follow, and have been thinking about it for a while.

a reply to: muse7

They can pass anything they want. But Obama will still veto it.

if he does he will get overridden, dems have and are already turning against him. you know like Schumer, and there will be more to follow. hell Reid has even started being more meeker.

originally posted by: DAVID64
No, we expect them to do their jobs. We don't need a bunch of new laws, when they fail to enforce what's already on the books.

But we've had these laws on the books for a long time. So what you need to doing isn't saying enforce the laws but ask why aren't the laws being enforced? All the laws in the world don't matter if the groups that are in charge of enforcing them don't want to enforce them.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DAVID64
No, we expect them to do their jobs. We don't need a bunch of new laws, when they fail to enforce what's already on the books.

But we've had these laws on the books for a long time. So what you need to doing isn't saying enforce the laws but ask why aren't the laws being enforced? All the laws in the world don't matter if the groups that are in charge of enforcing them don't want to enforce them.

If they don't enforce them, things will only get worse. They have been getting worse for years. When will enough be enough?

originally posted by: Night Star
If they don't enforce them, things will only get worse. They have been getting worse for years. When will enough be enough?

But for the locals who benefit from the illegals things get better. Cheap labor is a boon to local business. Take my town for example, we have about 10 restaurants in the town owned by the same guy (out of about 20 total in the town), a few years back he was busted for shipping in illegals and working them without pay, in exchange for food and shelter for x years. Essentially he set up his own little indentured servant ring using illegals. He was busted and sentenced to 5 years in jail, he was out in 6 months and it's again business as usual. The city doesn't want to grab him because the town wants restaurants... they're quite good for the tourism industry. On top of that he buys things for the city.

It's extremely corrupt but that's the nature of the problem. The feds can intervene but that ultimately means having the federal government intrude on local matters... something a large portion of those in Congress don't want to do. That leaves us in a gridlock situation where the fix is to make them legal in order to end the below market labor while simultaneously cutting off the flow of new illegals.

a reply to: Aazadan

It's already been in the news where a lot of the illegals are afraid to come forward. Throughout our other amnesties, many remained illegal and had no desire to become legal citizens. So amnesty is not the answer. And even for those who do become legal, that only encourages millions more to come waiting for the next amnesty. It keeps happening. There is no end.

a reply to: Aazadan

I should have added that it is neither fair nor right to reward law breakers and push others to the back of the line, it is a slap in the face to all those who are coming through the proper channels.To reward illegals and let them keep jobs that an American citizen could have to provide for his family, is a slap in the face.

We have poor people who rob banks. We don't reward them. If we break a law, any law, we pay the consequences. We don't get rewarded.

a reply to: Aazadan

It is the Feds job to deport them. It isn't a local or state matter. It should be but Arizona tried that and the Feds shut them down, it was working and the Feds didn't want anyone to see it.

originally posted by: Night Star
It's already been in the news where a lot of the illegals are afraid to come forward. Throughout our other amnesties, many remained illegal and had no desire to become legal citizens. So amnesty is not the answer. And even for those who do become legal, that only encourages millions more to come waiting for the next amnesty. It keeps happening. There is no end.

That's why securing the border has to be a part of any amnesty program (or any other solution for that matter). It doesn't matter if we keep them all or get rid of them all if more come afterwards. The problem is in how to do that cost effectively. The US has a lot of land area, compared to most developed nations we're quite rural, and we have a long border with Mexico. It's not exactly an easy thing to do, furthermore with the cartels running their own immigration business they have ways of getting past the border with tunnels, airplanes, boats, and even submarines. Merely building a fence doesn't solve the issue.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Aazadan

I should have added that it is neither fair nor right to reward law breakers and push others to the back of the line, it is a slap in the face to all those who are coming through the proper channels.To reward illegals and let them keep jobs that an American citizen could have to provide for his family, is a slap in the face.

We have poor people who rob banks. We don't reward them. If we break a law, any law, we pay the consequences. We don't get rewarded.

Unfortunately, life is rarely fair. People goto college only to wind up back in dead end minimum wage jobs, corporations send jobs overseas, wages get depressed because it's easier to hire desperate people, and "job creators" take billions in incentives to actually create jobs only to invest it outside of the country. If things were fair they would look a lot different, sometimes fairness isn't possible because there's money to be made in keeping things unfair.

a reply to: Aazadan

If things were fair they would look a lot different, sometimes fairness isn't possible because there's money to be made in keeping things unfair.

Exactly...which is why it will continue to be unfair and make things worse.