Firms Have $3,000 Incentive For Hiring Illegals Under Obama Amnesty

originally posted by: Night Star
Illegals are in many areas of the work force doing jobs that citizens will do. They are in roofing and construction and factories and other places. You should know this by now.

So a worker comes along and says they'll do the same job for less money. That's capitalism in action, it's not just products that compete for the lowest price, but also employees.

In regards to this being a defacto $3000 bonus for hiring an illegal... weren't the same people pushing this idea the same people who also said we shouldn't cover them in the first place? Health care coverage is a cost, if you make certain people exempt from that cost they're going to be more attractive. That's why everyone is supposed to be covered without exception.

originally posted by: Aazadan

So a worker comes along and says they'll do the same job for less money. That's capitalism in action, it's not just products that compete for the lowest price, but also employees.

You are absolutely correct in saying Obama's EO will depress wages and thank you for your intellectual honesty. More people chasing the same amount of jobs leads to wage depression. Or in terms of products more goods chasing the same amount of customers leads to price depression. It's the same basic theory and one of the most important rules of economics.

If that's what you and the rest of the American people want that's fine but the problem is Obama just made a speech saying his EO would increase wages. If the American people want wage depression (I personally don't think they do) than why lie and say it will increase their wages? Seems like something the villain from Die Hard Hans Gruber might do or one of his relatives...

originally posted by: IAMTAT
What...Wait...according to this, Obama just made hiring illegal immigrants over current American citizens more attractive to and cost effective for, American businesses.

Did Obama just take away 5 million jobs from American citizens?

MORE:
www.washingtontimes.com...

I'm sorry- is this news to you?
I live in a place that until recently (last 10-15 years) we didn't *have* minorities. I went to a high school with ONE black kid. And racism wasn't an issue, because it was beaten into our heads that racism was not tolerated.

Fast forward, and some mayor said something stupid blah blah blah and we've got a huge population of Somalians in the city- and all of a sudden *every* big corporation in town has to abide by a national policy where at least X percent of the hires NEED to be Y, or Z, or L, M, N, O, or P.
As a middle-aged white male, this leaves me in a situation where if I want a job, and a company wants to hire me, we're both SOL because a certain percentage of the population in the last census was one ethnicity, yet the company is staffed with... you guessed it, middle aged white guys.
They can't hire more middle aged white guys because there are plenty of not white guys living here- great in theory, until you take into account that 90+ percent of the non white people living here are "refugees" or some such- and don't have the technical skill to work in my field of work at all- let alone fill the niche market that our division handles.

I've lived in two counties, Los Angeles and San Diego. No shortage of illegal immigrants here.

I've worked blue collar as a bus boy, convenience store clerk, door-to-door salesman, rental yard mechanic, gas station attendant, tow truck driver, taxi-cab driver, graveyard-shift dishwasher, graveyard-shift supermarket stocker, gardener/landscaper, house painter, window washer, rough framer/carpenter, house builder, handyman, hospital phlebotomist, and USCG seaman.

The GI Bill enabled me to get a university degree, and white collar work as a university teaching assistant, online math-science tutor, semiconductor fab robotics technician, hospital bio-medical engineer, pharmaceutical industry R&D engineer, and ultimately work as a self-employed small business entrepreneur.

I spent years watching blue collar trade jobs being handed to illegal immigrants streaming across the California-Mexico border, as well as white collar corporate jobs being outsourced to techno-coolies overseas.

Illegal immigrants are breaking U.S. laws, scheming their way into this country, and stealing jobs from legal citizens. The U.S. government and corporations are facilitating this illegal activity.

My advice to American kids is follow your heart, screw the corporate ladder and college degree, instead pursue the path of a self-employed entrepreneur, whether that's picking weeds or programming computers, always set your sights on building businesses and being your own boss.

a reply to: IAMTAT

It's not 5 million, under his executive orders 20 million illegals will qualify. He is just playing down the numbers and intentionally trying to take down America from within.

originally posted by: muse7
Capitalism baby!

Why are Conservatives not loving this? More profits for companies hiring cheap labor!

The better question is why inst the left flipping out about this?

Arent they usually the ones screaming that Republicans are to blame because they dont hold companies accountable for hiring illegals?

Now this and not a peep?

Again another case of "its ok cause liberals/Obama did it"

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: xuenchen

I can't imagine Obama saw this coming. This is going to bite him!

Of course he didn't see this coming. Does he see anything? He'll probably hear about it on the news and mention that very fact in an upcoming speech.

Besides loss of jobs, a booming entitlement population, and organized criminal gangs, San Diego is a staging area for the distribution of heroin, coc aine, and methamphetamine, flowing out of Mexico. With a massive surplus of these drugs in this area, prices are cheap and availability is absolutely no problem. I've witnessed generations of otherwise healthy, happy, productive American lives destroyed by the abundance of these hard drugs.

One night while driving a taxi I picked up an undercover DEA agent along a strip of active bars and restaurants, he got in and immediately asked me follow a sheriff's cruiser. The guy had no problem telling me what he was up to. He didn't say why he wanted to track the sheriff, but he did say the feds were very concerned about kilos of methamphetamine being traded along the particular strip. I asked him about his knowledge of the local coc aine trade, and ironically he told me the feds were not interested in pursuing its distribution.

I'll admit I have a chip on my shoulder. I hate my government for establishing countless federal laws and Orwellian jurisdiction, and then selectively enforcing these laws according to whims of TPTB and the dark elite.



DE A: Cartels Expanding U.S. Territory, Methamphetamine and Heroin Smuggling

originally posted by: john452
You are absolutely correct in saying Obama's EO will depress wages and thank you for your intellectual honesty. More people chasing the same amount of jobs leads to wage depression. Or in terms of products more goods chasing the same amount of customers leads to price depression. It's the same basic theory and one of the most important rules of economics.

I'm not really arguing that it's good or bad because I don't see it in those terms. I see immigration reform as necessary and that it was time for the President to take charge and act. The simple fact of the matter is that we can't deport these people for a myriad of reasons (no political will, can't find them, too many to deport, humanitarian issues) which means we have to accept that they're going to remain here.

That then leaves us with another two options: Either we let them exist inside the system, or outside the system. If they exist inside the system we're going to have an initial surplus of unskilled labor as everyone comes out to get a real job, and that's going to depress wages. In return we're going to put a bunch of people on the path to being self sufficient and in 15 to 20 years some of them will even be successful productive members of society owning businesses and such. If we keep them outside the system they're going to continue to use emergency room services and get food stamps while working for cash under the table at rates that no legal citizen can work at. This isn't going to increase the labor supply any more than it currently is, but it's going to create a permanent underclass of citizen and from history underclasses of citizens don't assimilate well into a culture. 15-20 years from now they're all still going to be a problem.

If that's what you and the rest of the American people want that's fine but the problem is Obama just made a speech saying his EO would increase wages. If the American people want wage depression (I personally don't think they do) than why lie and say it will increase their wages? Seems like something the villain from Die Hard Hans Gruber might do or one of his relatives...

Like usual for politicians Obama is saying one thing while meaning another. Making the illegals legal raises their wage to minimum wage while leaving them illegal keeps them working under the table for less. Making them legal on the other hand increases the supply of workers, which drives down wages. The truth is, either path we take reduces wages but by making them legal we set things up so that wages can increase again in the future.

There are no good options with our immigration problem. The best thing we can do is to address the border (which Obama is ignoring), and accept that the illegals already here effectively pulled one over on us. Accept that and move on.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: xuenchen

I can't imagine Obama saw this coming. This is going to bite him!

Obama's Mission Statement: " I want to transform America."

Much more of this and he'll be...

originally posted by: muse7
Capitalism baby!

Why are Conservatives not loving this? More profits for companies hiring cheap labor!

Maybe because your prejudice against the right is all wrong. I'm pretty far right and I don't want corporations to be coddled...but I also don't want Americans getting jobs that are rightfully theirs.

originally posted by: xuenchen
OOOOOuuuuuu

what a luscious loophole indeed !!

Sneaky Sneaky

Yup! Don't tell me that was an accident. They just hoped none of us idiots would see it.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: xuenchen

I can't imagine Obama saw this coming. This is going to bite him!

Sorry, but...no it won't. He could shoot and kill someone on live TV and there would STILL be dems supporting him.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: john452
You are absolutely correct in saying Obama's EO will depress wages and thank you for your intellectual honesty. More people chasing the same amount of jobs leads to wage depression. Or in terms of products more goods chasing the same amount of customers leads to price depression. It's the same basic theory and one of the most important rules of economics.

I'm not really arguing that it's good or bad because I don't see it in those terms. I see immigration reform as necessary and that it was time for the President to take charge and act. The simple fact of the matter is that we can't deport these people for a myriad of reasons (no political will, can't find them, too many to deport, humanitarian issues) which means we have to accept that they're going to remain here.

That then leaves us with another two options: Either we let them exist inside the system, or outside the system. If they exist inside the system we're going to have an initial surplus of unskilled labor as everyone comes out to get a real job, and that's going to depress wages. In return we're going to put a bunch of people on the path to being self sufficient and in 15 to 20 years some of them will even be successful productive members of society owning businesses and such. If we keep them outside the system they're going to continue to use emergency room services and get food stamps while working for cash under the table at rates that no legal citizen can work at. This isn't going to increase the labor supply any more than it currently is, but it's going to create a permanent underclass of citizen and from history underclasses of citizens don't assimilate well into a culture. 15-20 years from now they're all still going to be a problem.

If that's what you and the rest of the American people want that's fine but the problem is Obama just made a speech saying his EO would increase wages. If the American people want wage depression (I personally don't think they do) than why lie and say it will increase their wages? Seems like something the villain from Die Hard Hans Gruber might do or one of his relatives...

Like usual for politicians Obama is saying one thing while meaning another. Making the illegals legal raises their wage to minimum wage while leaving them illegal keeps them working under the table for less. Making them legal on the other hand increases the supply of workers, which drives down wages. The truth is, either path we take reduces wages but by making them legal we set things up so that wages can increase again in the future.

There are no good options with our immigration problem. The best thing we can do is to address the border (which Obama is ignoring), and accept that the illegals already here effectively pulled one over on us. Accept that and move on.

It is not that we CAN'T deport them, it is that those in power WON'T. And we all know why. Yes...we can and should deport them. Even if it only means they start over again, but this time...legally.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
It is not that we CAN'T deport them, it is that those in power WON'T. And we all know why. Yes...we can and should deport them. Even if it only means they start over again, but this time...legally.

No, we literally can't do it. The cost per deportation has been skyrocketing since about 2000, in that time it has jumped from around $400 per to $12,500 per person today. We don't know how many of them are here but we do know that it's atleast 12 million. That's $146,250,000,000 or a bit over 146 billion. That's just who we know about and assuming they're living law abiding lives while here. If we incentivize them to commit crimes like pulling away social supports we then have the criminal trial overhead, the cost of imprisonment, and everything else and we haven't even yet touched the court system. That's 11.7 million trials that judges have to hear, it would overload the system. The costs will also wildly increase when we have to actually start finding illegals... these numbers are purely for the ones we know about.

We simply can't do it.

It is just painfully ironic that the party that repeatedly champions Rands' free market capitalism, seems 100% ignorant of how labor supply and demand works.

No...Illegal immigrants aren't taking American jobs.

Farming: 25%
Grounds Maintenance (Lawncare): 19%
Construction: 12%
Production (manufacturing) 10%
Transportation/material moving: 7%
Civilian Labor: 5.4%

For effs sake!

When I see a sudden influx of teenagers putting down the Xbox controller in their parents basement and going out and asking that lawn crew weeding his mom's flower bed if they need any help...then we can start this debate about who is taking who's jobs!

Georgia tried cracking down on Immigration a few years back..ya know what happened? CONSERVATIVE FARMERS put their foot up the local legislature's butt to repeal the crackdown and they did. Farms were failing! No one..I mean NO ONE stepped up to take those jobs.

Every-time I pass a lawn crew in my neighborhood, likely staffed with Illegals, I smile and wave...and think ..THANK GOD their are still people in this country willing to work long days, sweating in the sun and put in a hard days work!

That's just the truth. I LIKE immigrants from Mexico, they actually WORK for a living.

And the truth is, that is why they get hired and that is why they come here.

Beats the hell out of the kids mooching off their parents until they finally graduate college and wonder where their 100k payday is and why no one will hire them to eat Cheetos and play video games for a living! Cuz they are just so damn good at it, they deserve it!

Here's how it works. The employer hires low paid workers, but first he buys up local property. He then places low paid workers in said property, usually 10 at a time. those 10 have say $80 a week deducted from their wages for rent. That's the Mortgage payed with a little bit of profit every week..... Gas, Electricity will probably be payed for using a pay as you go meter system. Rinse and repeat.

How do i know this, because i worked for a company here in the UK who were doing it as far back as 2005. The Locals couldn't buy a house locally as the employer would pay over the odds for any property that came on the market. when i left the company in 2009 the employer, and some of the Managers also got in on the act, had around 10 -12 properties that i know of filled with eastern Europeans all working for £2.50 less an hour than the native worker.

That Employer became one of the UK leading structural Engineering companies in the UK in less than 12 years. He was a Farmer before he got into the Structural Engineering and hiring cheap European labour Game.

How did it effect us natives?? Loss of overtime and all shift work that was payed at time and a third was lost as he placed the Europeans night shift and back shift on a flat rate. And from 2006-09 i never saw one native come through the door.

When i left in 2009 he employed somewhere between 150 and 200 Platers, Welders, Painters, machine operators, ground workers etc...we were outnumbered 2 to 1.

And to the person who say's they are filling the jobs that the natives wont touch.. We wont touch those jobs because they dont pay enough to cover the basics to live without getting deeper and deeper into debt. We dont all live in a house 10 deep and share one rent between us.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

(A) UK not USA
(B) By your own admission, your employer never would have existed without exploiting immigrant labor...so..you never would have had a job otherwise?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: john452
You are absolutely correct in saying Obama's EO will depress wages and thank you for your intellectual honesty. More people chasing the same amount of jobs leads to wage depression. Or in terms of products more goods chasing the same amount of customers leads to price depression. It's the same basic theory and one of the most important rules of economics.

I'm not really arguing that it's good or bad because I don't see it in those terms. I see immigration reform as necessary and that it was time for the President to take charge and act. The simple fact of the matter is that we can't deport these people for a myriad of reasons (no political will, can't find them, too many to deport, humanitarian issues) which means we have to accept that they're going to remain here.

That then leaves us with another two options: Either we let them exist inside the system, or outside the system. If they exist inside the system we're going to have an initial surplus of unskilled labor as everyone comes out to get a real job, and that's going to depress wages. In return we're going to put a bunch of people on the path to being self sufficient and in 15 to 20 years some of them will even be successful productive members of society owning businesses and such. If we keep them outside the system they're going to continue to use emergency room services and get food stamps while working for cash under the table at rates that no legal citizen can work at. This isn't going to increase the labor supply any more than it currently is, but it's going to create a permanent underclass of citizen and from history underclasses of citizens don't assimilate well into a culture. 15-20 years from now they're all still going to be a problem.

If that's what you and the rest of the American people want that's fine but the problem is Obama just made a speech saying his EO would increase wages. If the American people want wage depression (I personally don't think they do) than why lie and say it will increase their wages? Seems like something the villain from Die Hard Hans Gruber might do or one of his relatives...

Like usual for politicians Obama is saying one thing while meaning another. Making the illegals legal raises their wage to minimum wage while leaving them illegal keeps them working under the table for less. Making them legal on the other hand increases the supply of workers, which drives down wages. The truth is, either path we take reduces wages but by making them legal we set things up so that wages can increase again in the future.

There are no good options with our immigration problem. The best thing we can do is to address the border (which Obama is ignoring), and accept that the illegals already here effectively pulled one over on us. Accept that and move on.

I heard much the same argument during Reagan's Amnesty.

You know what?

15-20 years down the road they WERE still a problem...

... in spite of the amnesty.

originally posted by: Indigo5
a reply to: Soloprotocol

(A) UK not USA
(B) By your own admission, your employer never would have existed without exploiting immigrant labor...so..you never would have had a job otherwise?

UK/USA what does it matter.

I never admitted anything of the sort, The company existed just fine albeit on a smaller scale before the influx of cheap labour from Eastern Europe.
I got a job with them just as the invasion of Eastern Europeans was taking off. When those countries became members of the European Union.