Next Level BS #23: Shut Up Scientists, Go Home, You're Not Wanted

Today on Next Level BS we take a look at two bills, HR 1422 and HR 4012, designed to suppress science in government. No, seriously, we're not kidding or exaggerating. The intent of both bills is to prevent expert scientists from using their experience and accumulated knowledge when working for or with the Environmental Protection Agency, while opening the door for non-science industry experts. Watch the show to learn more, and discover the motivations behind these bills.




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a reply to: theNLBS


Thanks for this, I didn't know about the bills - Wonder who is sponsoring them.

This is BatS**t crazy - I'm not kidding - rubberroom time.

A New Dark Ages (sung to the tune of "A New Argentina")


Edit

HR 1422

Yep - it the usual cast of insane republicans:

www.congress.gov...

ohh HR 4012 is the "Secret Science Reform Act" ooooh spooky. Oxymoronic much? Though upon reading the short text sounds pretty good until you think though all the 'red tape' added to the process. Got give credit for creativity for proposing regulations on the regulators that you'll never give them the budget to actucally meet.

Yeppers - the same cast with supporting characters.

www.congress.gov...

Got to love that republican agenda.

a reply to: theNLBS

This is what happens when morons outbreed intelligent people.

We need to start a eugenics program.

America is lost im moving to the mountains and hiding. See you guys on the other side.

H.R.1422 -- EPA Science Advisory Board Reform Act of 2014

(2) Each member of the Board shall be qualified by education, training, and experience to evaluate scientific and technical information on matters referred to the Board under this section. The Administrator shall ensure that--

`(A) the scientific and technical points of view represented on and the functions to be performed by the Board are fairly balanced among the members of the Board;

`(B) at least ten percent of the membership of the Board are from State, local, or tribal governments;

`(C) persons with substantial and relevant expertise are not excluded from the Board due to affiliation with or representation of entities that may have a potential interest in the Board's advisory activities, so long as that interest is fully disclosed to the Administrator and the public and appointment to the Board complies with section 208 of title 18, United States Code;

`(D) in the case of a Board advisory activity on a particular matter involving a specific party, no Board member having an interest in the specific party shall participate in that activity;

`(E) Board members may not participate in advisory activities that directly or indirectly involve review or evaluation of their own work;

`(F) Board members shall be designated as special Government employees; and

`(G) no federally registered lobbyist is appointed to the Board.

a reply to: theNLBS

take solace in the fact that the scientists are bought and paid for, too. You don't get funding for the next project by going against the corporate agenda(s).

This is part of the problem we as a country have, we will not be able to compete on the global scale soon if not already.

Merica is #1 as we slowly float down the S#$% creak we have created!

China will be the next super power not because of there actions but because of a minority in our own country.

NLBS for sure!

Ever wonder why most high level college grads are not from America? Yet were anti immigration?

Don't you just love capitalism? NOT Business runs it all. Politicians do not work for the people. They work for money and power.

The intent of both bills is to prevent expert scientists from using their experience and accumulated knowledge when working for or with the Environmental Protection Agency,

Right!

And for the last 20 YEARS the EPA has been using 'science' to regulate the planet!

Last time I checked the EPA right along with every other government agency doesn't use, science, common sense, or anything else.

The only thing government agencies use to today is their own political beliefs.

And THAT ISNT SCIENCE either.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: theNLBS

take solace in the fact that the scientists are bought and paid for, too. You don't get funding for the next project by going against the corporate agenda(s).

I was thinking the same thing as you. They are all bought and paid for. Too much influence coming from somebody somewhere. Whole system for the most part is corrupt.

Private ownership is dragging us down.

Are people going to admit that private ownership of an organization is a bad idea?

Who's idea was it anyways?

* I thought up this brilliant idea so now all of you have give me your resources, Every last penny* Does not really make sense lol.

Unless of course they plan on turning everyone into a cyborg. Cyborgs don't complain about work, they don't protest and they never get tired.

Pretty sure that's what their master plan is, to have a fully automated human race with the Elite controlling everyone without a single problem.

If science is illigal then these black ops projects to develop these end goals are unhindered.
Sure the average joe isn't allowed to figure things out if these bills are passed but that does not stop the black ops projects these elitists want done.

Basically they are saying if you want to be a scientists your gunna have to work for them, or not at all.

Looks like the peices on the chess board are really making important moves now.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: theNLBS

take solace in the fact that the scientists are bought and paid for, too. You don't get funding for the next project by going against the corporate agenda(s).

'Luvvv that!
It reminds me of the guy that pulled out of the IPCC advisory on climate change..scratch that, it was AGW at the time
He said it was almost impossible to get funding for research at that time, unless there was a related aspect of AGW included. The Irony is that he was talking about Government funding! I forget the example he used, maybe something about why Squirrels hide their nuts.

Next Level Depression

I'm sorry I moved to the States.

As was mentioned, the entire system is messed up. I certainly can't speak for every discipline, but funding for theoretical mathematics has thankfully been spared from most of the bias in the granting of grant monies.

This relates to another point brought up; that many people I have worked with in the field of theoretical mathematics are foreign-born, and United States-educated. Not many United States citizens are pursuing theoretical mathematics.

I hear the argument all the time. "We don't even know what your theoretical mathematics can do for us, why should we fund it?" My answer is that we need to first create the language of mathematics, so that eventually other disciplines can benefit from the structure put in place. It might take 10 years before someone finds a use for it, but it is better to be prepared than to fall behind. Other countries are funding and preparing their citizens/scientists/mathematicians to do just that, as they have seen how it generally plays out in the long run.

a reply to: theNLBS

Wow...first of all Joe, congratulations on yet another sterling effort!

You know, it seems to me that one of the big issues for the EPA was that it was not nearly stringent enough about creating and enforcing regulations to safeguard natural resources, wildlife, and the quality and cleanliness of water courses and the like. Hydraulic fracturing, as many of us here will already be aware, has extremely dangerous chemical by products, including radioactive waste water. Currently there are no actual federal regulations which outline the appropriate disposal methods for that type of waste from fracking.

Now, if the EPA had the right idea about this sort of thing, there would be no gap in the regulations there. It would be buttoned down, and probably cost more to dispose of the damned waste products properly, than one could legitimately sell the actual gas for! And just in case anyone might think of piping up and saying something asinine, like "Well in that case, its a good thing the EPA are such a toothless bunch of bastards when it comes to dealing with big energy!", well no. No it is not!

Independent scientists are the only ones who can be truly objective about the consequences of a given set of circumstances coming to pass. If scientists who are paid by a big oil company, are going to be given the same power and place as those whose only interest is maintaining natural resources by managing risk to them, whose only interest is keeping the environment safe enough for everyone that we can all expect to avoid growing four arms and six legs each by the time the human race is a generation older, then only disaster can result. THAT is not rocket science.

All I know is, I would trust a person who gave me truth because it is the right thing to do, but I would have a hard time accepting the word of someone who takes industry money to give something the desired spin!

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: theNLBS

take solace in the fact that the scientists are bought and paid for, too. You don't get funding for the next project by going against the corporate agenda(s).

Yes and many of them end up dead too.

Plenty of threads about dead scientists on ATS. Scientists are also controlled by Government. Also true about 'funding'. If anyone goes against the machine...they don't last long.

There is much more for the OP to ponder here, consider this item from 2011,

www.forbes.com...

That particular item didn't get too much airing, the damage was already done in manys ways, however it brings up an important aspect of how things are, or can be done. In the Forbes link, scientists discuss how to obfuscate data they used for their science, (some names may be familiar) which they themselves now consider could be flawed data.
In contrast I remember an online article back a few years where some scientists who had worked on the same flawed data bemoaned the fact that they had wasted years of their precious time on a false premise by virtue of flawed data. They had to be coming from the same pool in the first instance, yet the reactions are different, self preservation on the one hand, and feck it on the other.
So IMHO there is a need for some independent..as in independent oversight from the plebs.

Sorry, I'm wondering what a certain member around here thinks about all this science malarkey. Are they bought and paid for? Have the sources of skeptics been bought and paid for?

Aw that is cute!

It is kind of like when the supreme court passed Citizens United.

In your face flat out, your vote does not matter at all any more deal with it! Although we will still allow you to believe voting does have an effect.

Now on to them being as blunt as possible that real science will never see the light of day in the EPA. I mean anyone paying attention to the EPA's actions historically has known that, however now it is undeniable and they can excuse the previous corrupt actions of the EPA with the beginning of more nonstop blatant corruption from the EPA, aka the entire chemical/energy industries bitch!

This with the added benefit of making it a partisan issue, causing further divide! Truly those pulling the strings are the most evil sort of genius! Of course this could only happen under those science hating republicans!

Again anyone paying attention to the EPA in any sort of way could see that this kind of scientific suppresion has been happening since the inception of the EPA, it has always been there to give the illusion of responsibilty, while producing bunk corporate science to justify the destruction of our envrionments, the most recent example being the approval of DOW's Enlist Duo! Imagine that it passed before those evil republicans are standing in the way of "real science"

Funny how this is all shaking out, all of those prior "conspiracies" are simply becoming law!

Psssst - wanna know the biggest conspiracy theory that no one wants to touch with a 20 foot pole? Maybe, that many in the scientific community, and many in the government are very aware of a distinct possibility that every complex species on this planet of ours very well may be extinct within the next one hundred years, and at this point, there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. The changes needed to take to even slow this down very slightly would have disastrous effects on our society, sooooooooo, we'll just keep burning that wick till nothings left.

No one in the media, scientific community, nor government wants to broach the subject, but honestly I can't blame them. Without any clear cut solution, telling the truth in this situation may do much more harm than good (from a humanity viewpoint).

OR I could be absolutely wrong, and we can continue with exponential population growth along with exponential industrial expansion without having ANY effect on the natural environment we depend upon for survival.

originally posted by: Syyth007
Psssst - wanna know the biggest conspiracy theory that no one wants to touch with a 20 foot pole? Maybe, that many in the scientific community, and many in the government are very aware of a distinct possibility that every complex species on this planet of ours very well may be extinct within the next one hundred years, and at this point, there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. The changes needed to take to even slow this down very slightly would have disastrous effects on our society, sooooooooo, we'll just keep burning that wick till nothings left.

No one in the media, scientific community, nor government wants to broach the subject, but honestly I can't blame them. Without any clear cut solution, telling the truth in this situation may do much more harm than good (from a humanity viewpoint).

OR I could be absolutely wrong, and we can continue with exponential population growth along with exponential industrial expansion without having ANY effect on the natural environment we depend upon for survival.

Could you (a) define what you consider a complex species? and (b) why whatever you consider noncomplex-species will be spared (or perhaps you just don't care about what you have deemed noncomplex species)?