Who or What are the Angels? part 2 follow up but with a twist.

originally posted by: Nechash
a reply to: Abednego

I was just reading the other day about some of the speculation about the wife (wives?) of Adam before Hawwah (Eve), and how people think they mothered great demonic creatures with fallen angels.

Are You referring to: "In the beginning was Adam(u) and Lilith, created from the same dirt..." Lilith also gets blamed for nocturnal emissions and anything evil doing w/the feminine.

More info in the O.T. and Torah..

EDIT: Footnote #66 using Google™ reads that Samael and Lilith were born as One, similar to Adam/Eve..

edit on 10/13/2014 by JimNasium because: addendum.

a reply to: JimNasium

the Lilith may sometimes be literal...which opens the door for challenges...more often than not it a simple recognition that every Man has a mother...a woman different from his wife; thus his children.

Hebrew does Circumcision as a symbol and token of remembrance to....

Leave his mother and his father and cleave to his wife and become One Flesh.

A Declaration of Independence of sorts.

a reply to: michaelbrux

It's OK they caught it with the council of Nicea and the Illuminuati.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

they caught something?

i don't know who those people are...but the world is Big.

a reply to: Abednego

The Lord put some smoke on Azazel’s for teaching man forbidden things

Azazal is not Satan literally. He is part of the powerful Jinn group/tribe or race who led Adam astray

Satan is an archetypal (distortion of natural habits) inner universal habit born through the distortion of the inner nature of man after his fall.

There is no one being called the devil or Satan its a myth

The word in Arabic ( Islamic cosmology) is Iblees which is an attribute meaning to despair. Iblees may have been Azazel. The SATAN or Shaitan was created AFTER the fall of men through the perversion of man's inner nature.

The Angels are the nature of beings that reflect light and power

So they submit to and are God's agents

We know all about those Preversions.

a reply to: St Udio

In the Quran, Jinn and Angels are said to be two separate types of all three(well billions of life since God is that over powered) God's creations. In the christian bible Satan was said to be an angel, while in the quran, a Jinn called "Ilbis" is basically the qurans version of Satan. Whats interesting, I find anyways, is that bible only talks of angels that have fallen from God's graces, and there really is no mention of a second force like how the quran tries to depict two separate supernatural entities that end up being judged by God anyways.

It just the usual Satan rant that goes against what ever kingdom that goes against the one promoting it, like the God of Isreal for example. Also, the Torah, if I remember correctly only had angels and rarely talks of any other supernatural creature other then angels. Sure there's Satan(again), but the character was no more then a lab dog that supposedly tested faith to extremes, like asking God to challenge Jobs faith in God after all the things Satan threw at him. Also, from I recall, is that Satan was traveling with God and his company of angels in the book.

there is a spiritual contest/war going on for the hearts & souls of men by 2 despots.... this is not a choice between good & evil at all ~~~~
Just as the USA 2 Party System is an Illusion~ the Dems & Repubs are the same just as the Son of God vs the Morning Star
are out for your vote

I haven't voted in my country in a few years, and here it ether liberal or conservative.


And yes.

originally posted by: Specimen
I really wonder why the Snake is the wisest of animals in most religious symbolism's, and why God would make the Snake that smart, when all the other animals, including man and the woman are that stupid.

And whats so secretive about this fruit anyways, it not like God hiding secrets in that little garden, or closet that hasn't been open in a few thousand years. What, the gym socks are growing moss, and little white rabbits started jumping, flocking around?

What generally occurs throughout history, especially when one peoples overtake or conquer another, is that they group which comes out on top will demonize the former gods of the previous religion. It has been suggested that this is how the snake came to represent evil in these texts. A people need not even be conquered, as a rival group's god or gods can be turned into the demons or evil beings in a new religion, or can be incorporated into an existing religion. But ya, I don't know what is so special about serpents that anyone would worship them, lol. Regarding your arguments about the fruit, it very well could be allegorical. If you take the verses at face value and in a religious context, you have to remember that the Garden was paradise on earth essentially. It would have been different from where we now live to some extent, and considering this was before man and woman were what they are today as well. So the fruit of knowledge for instance would have been something that would have given knowledge to those in the garden who ate it, a knowledge of good and evil. After eating the fruit Adam and Eve understood that they were naked, and were ashamed, so this is basically suggesting the design for our human ways of perception, or how we all view the world.

Of course this is most likely not literal, but I cannot say that it is impossible by any means, or know what the author truly intended, rather I am simply offerring some interpretations. And then there is the fact that, again from a religious context, humans would be in no position to question God. If God exists then He must have knowledge far surpassing our own, and as such we could not question His motives, designs, or actions, because we can only perceive these ideas in our piddly little human brains, while God on the other hand would know all, and would likely have had a good reason for doing what He did. And although that seems like an argument that is a bit too convenient, it is still true. If God created everything, including you, and possessed far greater "everything" than you did, even our human brains can understand how ludicrous it would be for us to question Him. In my personal opinion this is one of those stories that was not meant to be taken literally.

There are a variety of interpretations for explaining the meaning of the story. Perhaps the story is meant to illustrate human nature. It also says that humans have been defying their Creator since the beginning, as opposed to following instructions, even when following those instructions gives you eternal happiness...because you must remember that we're talking about a paradise on earth here, and lifespans far surpassing that what we experience now. So Adam and Eve, instead of basking in this happiness forever, by simply doing what they're told, go and do the one thing that they are told not to do. The story is a powerful one, whether it is true or false, because of the variety of points it illustrates and the number of lessons that can be learned from it.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

True, it all depends on how it being read or interpreted.

The Adam and Eve story is a weird one originally since its probably a much older story then the Torah itself. Now if it about the beginning of creation, or the story of man's first transgression against God words depends on the reader, or how God made woman to punish man for all eternity...who knows.

The story could be heavily based of sex so much that it symbolizes human curiosity, adultery and even loyalty since Adam bit the apple later, and maybe even love because he felt bad for Eve. When they bit the fruit, they became aware of their nudity and felt shame, when before the biting of the apple, their reproductive organs were probably just flopping around while their dancing with the birds and the bees.

The story hardly represents any knowledgeable things other then not messing with Gods will, and the original tale gets mighty confusing if I remember correctly.

Again the adam and eve story, to me anyways, is heavily, heavily based on sex. You got a giant bushy tree in the middle of a beautiful garden where Crabs were not even invented yet. Apples, as well any other fruitful fruit are reproductive organs of trees, and a snake comes down from that tree, convincing eve bite the apple, or in some cases...bite him.

As for snakes tho, who knows. Ether it has something to with kundalini, or maybe the actual nature of snakes, since snakes don't like be f'd with anyways, and keep their distance from most dangers or threats just like God f' arounds with most things anyways.

The sex thing however, well, look the Da vinci code, saying the holy grail of Jesus was the urterus of another woman.

Sly devil.:devil

Satan could have been an “Angel” in the transcendent sense that ultimately everything done is God.

But literally when indulging in independent acts of rebellion he IS NOT an Angel.

He crossed over into the satanic realm in time and place so he becomes a Satan or devil

It doesn’t make sense to call him an angel simply because if something inwardly ( the source of all our actions) prompted him top do evil or rebel against God then he has a blemish inside that indicates either he fell as man did or he wasn’t angelic in the first place.

Also the "devil" becomes an Angel ONLY IF he knew he had to do evil so as to fulfill God's intention to create evil

When Satan got kicked out, so did Adam. lol.