If Jesus Christ Never Existed as some claim, who then said these amazing and awe inspiring words?

originally posted by: edmc^2

Now who can top that?

But don't you see? Jesus couldn't have said any of that - because he didn't exist.


Meanwhile the one true messiah, Uncle Ben gets no recognition when good things happen to people.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: edmc^2

Do you see the wisdom in what Jesus said about settling matters early on?
Many disaster and heartache had been prevented because people were sensible enough to talk to each other and settle matters rather than suing each other.


Now why are you against this sound advice I don't know.

I've got better advice that takes less time to say. Do no harm.

Whoooop whoooop throw me a parade!

The truth is, the bible is not EVIDENCE of anything. Every single time a christian fundamentalist claims something from the bible as fact I laugh. Only a omnipotent GOD can say wise things. So therefore wise quotes from the bible must only mean they came from a god. Therefore Jesus is real.

Don't do any online IQ quizzes. You might be disappointed when the logic portion starts.

Do no harm is good but this is better:

Matthew 7:12 “Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them.”—The New Testament in Modern English, by J. B. Phillips.

Or these:

37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and the most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ Matthew 22

Now who can top that?

You know that "Treat others as you would have them treat you" isn't so great. It would be more compassionate to "Treat others as they would have you treat them". We don't know what people want or need. Or what's important to them.

by "Treating them as YOU would have them treat YOU", you are effectively forcing your self-centered needs, wants and values on another.

Edit to add comentary from Emmett Fox.

The scripture reads:

"Therefore, al things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them, for this is the law and the prophets."

Now Dr. Fox's commentary from "The Sermon on the Mount" 1934

"This is the sublime precept that we call the Golden Rule. Here Jesus reiterates the Great Law in a concise summing up. This statement follows upon his wonderful statement of the Fatherhood of God. The underlying explanation for the existence of the Great Law is the metaphysical fact that we are all fundamentally one - all part of he Great Mind. Because we are all ultimately one, to hurt another is really to hurt oneself, and to help another is really to help oneself. the Fatherhood of god compels us to accept the brotherhood of man, and ,spiritually, brotherhood is unity."

Now I still prefer the adage "Do No Harm" as another so kindly posted.

Buddists just leave it at 'ease suffering' without judgement.

a reply to: eNumbra

Hold on marie antoinette said let them eat cake. I think she's the true messiah.

originally posted by: AnuTyr
don't you see the point of my reference tho? The eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is a direct quote of the Jewish torah.

Now how did a bunch of poor people who couldn't read and write suddenly learn to read and write and quote from books that only ever had a handful of copies in the world during that time.

You do realize that the people who wrote those books had acess to a large library in order to cross reference such statements word for right?

It's not like everyone spoke hebrew back then, So where did they get the knowlege to read and write in hebrew, greek and latin?

Seems kinda suspecious dosn't it?

I think you got your information wrong. Jesus' disciples were not illiterate. Quite to the contrary, Luke for example is a PHYSICIAN - hence was a doctor during his time. So without a doubt he is well educated. Mathew was a a former TAX COLLECTOR - hence good at numbers and monetary laws.

We can discuss the credentials of Jesus' apostle if you want to but the fact remains that they were not illiterate as some claim. They are in fact magnificent and powerful in their words that even their enemies said of them:

[Act 2:5-12 ESV] 5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians--we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"

I find it funny how people completely ignored my post.

If I didn't know any better, I would say people ignored me because they don't want to accept the responsibility and the burden that comes with that responsibility because it's the easy thing to do. Ignoring the situation won't make it go the way, and that's the problem with this World today. Sloth is also a sin.

You can take comfort in knowing that Jesus died on the cross for us to give us a chance, so the burden does not fall upon those who believe in him. What Jesus Christ did for us, is truly the definition of the Love and he really wants nothing more then for us to be with him.

originally posted by: TheProphetMark
I find it funny how people completely ignored my post.

If I didn't know any better, I would say people ignored me because they don't want to accept the responsibility and the burden that comes with that responsibility because it's the easy thing to do. Ignoring the situation won't make it go the way, and that's the problem with this World today. Sloth is also a sin.

You can take comfort in knowing that Jesus died on the cross for us to give us a chance, so the burden does not fall upon those who believe in him. What Jesus Christ did for us, is truly the definition of the Love and he really wants nothing more then for us to be with him.

They ignored my post to, but Uncle Ben, he didn't die for us, he died for Spider-Man and that's worked out much better.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: edmc^2

Do you see the wisdom in what Jesus said about settling matters early on?
Many disaster and heartache had been prevented because people were sensible enough to talk to each other and settle matters rather than suing each other.


Now why are you against this sound advice I don't know.

I've got better advice that takes less time to say. Do no harm.

Whoooop whoooop throw me a parade!

The truth is, the bible is not EVIDENCE of anything. Every single time a christian fundamentalist claims something from the bible as fact I laugh. Only a omnipotent GOD can say wise things. So therefore wise quotes from the bible must only mean they came from a god. Therefore Jesus is real.

Don't do any online IQ quizzes. You might be disappointed when the logic portion starts.

Do no harm is good but this is better:

Matthew 7:12 “Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them.”—The New Testament in Modern English, by J. B. Phillips.

Or these:

37 Jesus answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and the most important commandment. 39 The second most important commandment is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ Matthew 22

Now who can top that?

You know that "Treat others as you would have them treat you" isn't so great. It would be more compassionate to "Treat others as they would have you treat them". We don't know what people want or need. Or what's important to them.

by "Treating them as YOU would have them treat YOU", you are effectively forcing your self-centered needs, wants and values on another.

Edit to add comentary from Emmett Fox.

The scripture reads:

"Therefore, al things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them, for this is the law and the prophets."

Now Dr. Fox's commentary from "The Sermon on the Mount" 1934

"This is the sublime precept that we call the Golden Rule. Here Jesus reiterates the Great Law in a concise summing up. This statement follows upon his wonderful statement of the Fatherhood of God. The underlying explanation for the existence of the Great Law is the metaphysical fact that we are all fundamentally one - all part of he Great Mind. Because we are all ultimately one, to hurt another is really to hurt oneself, and to help another is really to help oneself. the Fatherhood of god compels us to accept the brotherhood of man, and ,spiritually, brotherhood is unity."

Now I still prefer the adage "Do No Harm" as another so kindly posted.

Buddists just leave it at 'ease suffering' without judgement.

Interesting take but I think we're on the same page.

Here's what Jesus said:

“Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them.”

Which means that when we treat others with respect, dignity, and kindness it encourages them to treat us the same way. Kind behavior can begets kind behavior and it neutralize an atmosphere of friction and stress. Hence if you become known for your considerate behavior toward others, you are likely to gain their recognition and acceptance. This kind of act makes us feel good and be accepted by others.

But do no harm is somewhat passive for what would you do if someone wants to do bodily harm to you and your family? Will you not defend yourself or your loved ones to prevent anything harm done to you while harming the offender?

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: TheProphetMark
I find it funny how people completely ignored my post.

If I didn't know any better, I would say people ignored me because they don't want to accept the responsibility and the burden that comes with that responsibility because it's the easy thing to do. Ignoring the situation won't make it go the way, and that's the problem with this World today. Sloth is also a sin.

You can take comfort in knowing that Jesus died on the cross for us to give us a chance, so the burden does not fall upon those who believe in him. What Jesus Christ did for us, is truly the definition of the Love and he really wants nothing more then for us to be with him.

They ignored my post to, but Uncle Ben, he didn't die for us, he died for Spider-Man and that's worked out much better.

Actually I did not ignored your post - just chose not to respond to it. Good luck with your Uncle Ben.

I read about Christ when very young and knew by the amazing quality and displayed higher virtues which even children can easily see, that were being told about were true. I also read other religious type teachings that were not of Christ and could sense and feel they were not for me. They did not feel higher than man made things, but God's word always made me feel a special sense in truth and a hope towards me and whoever would read the same, and as I got older, I knew that the things Christ did, and taught others were very special, and not contrived for any nefarious scheme against me,.. And I can always see and discern these things today. When some big lie is told for the purpose of harming a country, or for using people for a hidden thing, I can see right through it. This isn't to say I am powerful, but to say that the one I look to for hope IS powerful. And true. Christ is 100% the real deal. Some things have to first be given the benefit of the doubt, before they can be known.

Some seem to think it is all BLIND FAITH. It isn't, it just starts out that way because those are the rules.

What is the most difficult thing for people to do in this world today? To believe. To even believe in anything is a big hurdle for most. To be WILLING to believe is the way to start. Are scientists willing to believe in an untested theory? ALL THE TIME. Why not to the question of belief in Christ? I tried it, and now no one can ever take away the truth of what I have learned by exercising at first FAITH. Now it isn't faith at all, but fact. Fact for me. It is a personal choice. It can't be proven from one to another, it must be proven by yourself to yourself by following what Christ said to do with faith first.

No one can even come close to matching the pure virtue shown in the word of God, which was only recorded by men, but not invented by men. I don't mind if anyone thinks against me for saying it. I know the truth that Christ is real and living right now, and I am glad.

We all know this is bs !

oh im sorry he was a physician. He must of known how to cure scurvy by passing a baby under a horse 3 times to cure the individual. Or break this twig over the mans head and he shall be cured.

Physician really didn't mean much back then unless of course he was a greek/egyptian who worked on mumification and surgery.

I might take that reading with a bit more credibility.

Reading and writing was not as common as you are led to believe it is.

And any scolars or would be scolars would of made their way to Alexandria where the freedom to write was allowed.

These people had to make their own settlement away from the cities because they would strung up otherwise.
It wasn't till it got to the point of the revolution of independance ( Against Rome) That these people ended up getting hunted down.

It's all there in the text. So you can believe what some romans thought would be acceptable after caesar got a knife in his gullet and take it all to heart or see it for what it really is.

A faith forged on deception lies and control. What Christianity is today is not what the Jesuits at Kumran intended it to be. And if it was you wouldn't be one. Because all the real laws they made with the socalled lawmaker you are referring to were obsurd. And no one in their right mind could follow such laws that limit things that how far you can go during certain days which includes distances to the bathroom.

utterly pointless things.

Rules stacks ontop of the Jewish rules. The original jesuits were hardcore Jews but instead they changed the doctrain around to benifit themselves and their Agenda.

They followed all the sabaths ect. Paul wrote in there that all these exterior laws don't matter and loving Jesus is good enough.

The whole religion was refined to appeal to people and so it does. Peace and love. But by all means it's not based on factual events.

The reason why many Egyptian stories and these biblical stories seem plagorized because they were. Alexandria was an Egyptian/greek city. So it totally makes sense.

When you look at all the cards on the tabel. The Greeks rebuilt the Egyptian Empire from the Ashes. It was Alexander *repaired*/rebuilt the temples there. Look at the greeks architechture with their pillars and the pillars found around Egypt.
Most were made by the Greek/Egyptians. So there was a thriving society there at the time all the way from the nile to Alexandria.

In a world at the time that persicuted the poor. Poor people were not allowed to read and write, If you were a slave you were not allowed to know how to write because if you can write you can protect your rights.
During that time law was being reformed because of the merging of the Egyptian decendants and the Greeks who revived the land.

The Egyptian decendants were originally babylonian immogrants that settled the Area and developed the old kingdom of Egypt.

They had a thousand years or so to do this and this is why much of the old Egyptian religion parallells the summarians because they were once one and the same only Egypt seperated into its own state. Eventually there were conflicts between the 2 nations and babylon ended up destroying Egypt. The remnants of those people are whome Alexander the Great encountered. So all the scrolls and random stories they had were passed on to Alexander the next Pharaoh. He got the brilliant idea to start a library knowing that ancient relics of the like existed. He wanted to learn all he could about the fallen civilization that used to thrive in these regions. He promised them he would rebuild their cities and so on. This is where we get mention of memphis and other cities in the bible.

During all this comotion Egypt was being reunified. Alexander had already died and his generals had claimed some cities for their own. Eventually it all leads back to casar and the oppression the romans have been enforcing on the world during their millenia of horror. Ceasar was not the first Emperor to rule Rome but he was most certainly the most ruthless which led to his downfall.

Rome was established on my birthday April 21st but the year was 753bc. So you see the time frame is very appropriate.
Where as the Jewish torah predates these by 600-800 years.

So the mystery around the Jews is a pretty perplexing one. They only had a couple torahs to follow and it just kept building up. I assume the Jews got their Torah from the summarian epics of Gilgamesh and the Tomes of Enoch.

Which is how all those stories end up tieing together because it started from the babylonians and ends with fall of roman dictatorships and the rise of democracy. Where power was transfered to the church and elected officials.

Anyways there's defenantly lots of words of wisdom in the bible particularly from the purspective of angry individuals who were suffering but does this book written in a time riff with genocide and war really have to reflect our world today?
Because it undoubtably is influencing it. We have 1/4 of the population who is muslim and 1/4 who are christian who believe in this kind of stuff.

You don't think this has anything to do with the state of the world we are in right now expecially the middle east and the temple mount?

a reply to: edmc^2

It's just the Government trying to brainwash us.

I HATE THAT SAYING ! Trying to brainwash us into doing good to one another ?! Come on people how pathetic. The government doesn't brain wash us into doing good. They brainwash us with T.V, Coca-cola and Facebook.

a reply to: Emerald53

Its the ancient pagan mantra 'Do as you would be done by".

People forget that there are a number of successful civilisations with rules such as the Sermon on the Mount and it needs to be remembered that the sermon on the mount, like all Christ's teachings went through the pens of the scribes given their instructions by the early church fathers trying to ingratiate themselves to the emperor in order to get his blessing to uphold their status in society. Everything was scripted.

Forrest Gump said some inspiring words, and he was a mentally challenged shrimp fisherman.

a reply to: AnuTyr

i don't think so. i think he was the last pharaoh of egypt. he was prophesied to come and they didn't believe him. he was heir to the thrones of egypt and israel, with even a shot at the throne of the roman empire. if you read up on what the messiah was supposed to mean to the jews, it'll raise your eyebrows up a few notches.

however, in addition to being the last pharaoh, i believe he was also the first pharaoh, predating narmer by perhaps 1000s of even 100s of thousands of years. the alpha (first) and the omega (last) pharaoh, which are also symbollized as the rod and staff of jehovah, otherwise seen in ancient egyptian iconography as the crook and flail of pharaoh. he was not just any pharaoh, however.

a reply to: edmc^2

It was Julius Caesar I tell you!!!

Actually, It may well have been.....but that's another topic for another OP.

originally posted by: edmc^2

Actually I did not ignored your post - just chose not to respond to it.

This logic is impeccable; how ever does anyone remain unconvinced of your opinions is beyond me.

a reply to: AnuTyr

oh i see some stuff in your most recent post i need to reply to:

after the "flood", noah's son, ham (khem) re-established egypt. he took with him the same information you see the sumerian texts, however, over time, cultural drift and variations in language, caused the two stories to deviate enough that historians didn't at first, see the similarities.

for example, the story of atum (adam), the god of creation, is almost an exact duplicate of the opening passages of genesis. you just have to recognize the key words and it all fits right into place. like atum is "self-created" = atum copied his own dna and the dna of other atum goddesses, creating the atum race *before the fall narrative*. moses must've had a dilemma in trying to write it down. there's a long story here, but i'll try to be brief. his mom gave him the sumerian version, and pharaoh's scholars gave him the egyptian version, as handed down by ham. he must've recognized it was the same story but had to make a differentiation between the creator and the created. so he went with the sumerian name for the creator(s) = alulim (first name on sumerian king's list, which in later hebrew, became elohim), and for the created, he called them atum (which in later hebrew was adam). these are the same word. atum=alulim=elohim=adam

when jesus referred to himself as the "son of man", what he is actually saying is the "son of atum" or in biblical lingo, the son of adam. is he saying he was cain or abel? nope. he's referring to the atum. he's saying he's a copy of atum, the creator, in a human body.

Read up on gnosticism. They even said better things but their religion was oppressed by the orthodox who'd later become the official church. During the first hundred years of christianity and after the supposed death of Christ dozens of 'christian' religions started to appear and many differed wildly.

I'm not saying Jesus existed or not, but anybody with a pen and paper (or more appropriately tablet and stone) can write words.