Ferguson Grand Jury: No Indictment for Darren Wilson in Michael Brown Shooting

originally posted by: Spruce
a reply to: blupblup

Why do you have a shooty criminal type as an avatar if you dislike us so much?

I have a picture of a Fictional Television Character as my avatar.

Ah... Avatar abuse - the last bastion of the moron.

originally posted by: AutOmatIc
Can't even walk down the street in a free country anymore. America, I am ashamed. Riot cops, you should be hung as traitors.

No, as long as you are a person of color who loots and burns, it seems you can't walk down the street. Cops won't touch you because they are afraid now of being labeled racist. Welcome to Obama's America, where Al Sharpton can promote more destruction and violence, and Obama will make sure everyone doing so 'stays the course'.

originally posted by: DancedWithWolves
I apologize if this has been posted, but have we been able to confirm Officer Wilson's claim that he made the "shots fired, send more cars" call on his police radio that no one heard because it had switched to "channel 3." What is channel 3 used for there and is it recorded or designated for anyone?

Thanks for any information!

PDs use multiple channels. could be channel 2, or 10, or 15. being channel three has no real significance. there's any number of reasons to have multiple channels. that being said, I haven't seen anything with Wilson claiming what you say he did. all I've seen is him calling for a backup unit early in the altercation.

a reply to: atlscribe

Very well said!

All of the factors leading up to the events of the last few days are very complicated. They are not caused by just this one case. This was just the spark that lit the tinder that has been piling up.

If the condition of society were healthier, and if there was not so much tension between law enforcement and the public, and if there were not so much tension between government and the public, and if people trusted the judicial systems, then people might have looked at this single case with more logic and less emotion.

However you want to deconstruct the violent confrontation where the white cop killed the black kid, there are other psychological elements present.

In the wild, with daily confrontations over limited resources like food and mating, there are stages before a damaging, draining or deadly confrontation, called Threatening Gestures. It can be vocalizations, throwing things, jumping up or down, grabbing a stick, etc. In most cases, one or the other potential combatants usually backs down at this point, and a deadly confrontation is avoided.

In an urban setting, the Threatening Gesture you see the most on the streets are "verbal threats". Talk to your undercover police. Lots of heated "talk" can be defused with quick thinking, before it escalates to threats and/or drawn weapons. In addition, examine the couple combatants:

~ Young, inexperienced white cop without the verbal skills to defuse the situation, which is the primary Threatening Gesture on the streets in any 'hood. If the cop really thought the large black kid was the same one who had just robbed that store, that he had heard on his radio minutes before, the cop should have called for back-up before confronting the kid on his own.

~ If the young white cop couldn't call for back-up, and had "reasonable suspicion" that this kid was the culprit, he should have ordered him loudly to the ground to be cuffed, even if he had to draw his weapon. Better strategy than a later "tussle" over a hastily drawn gun that usually ends up with an accidental shooting. Or a situation has gone beyond verbal threats, and one or the other is clearly motivated to attack the other - possibly after one perceives the other as weak or scared.

~ The young black kid was 6' 4", so he knew he had the heft to win the Threatening Gestures. He also probably picked up verbal and/or physical clues real fast (even subconsciously) that this cop was scared, inexperienced or wouldn't be confronting him if the cop wasn't in uniform and armed. Why aren't urban cops taught how to deal with confrontations like this? Especially white cops in heavily minority neighborhoods? (Like I said, urban confrontations between cops and belligerent minority kids happen everyday. Very few end up like Ferguson. What are THOSE urban cops doing differently to defuse situations like this?)

~ We have a love/hate relationship with big men, that sends mixed signals. We like to joke about their size, how much they can eat, and how we may feel "safer" in their presence. This sub-consciously reinforces the idea to big men that they are "expected" to go-physical in a potential confrontation. We need instead to teach our big men that being aggressively physical is terrific on a sports field - but not at home in a domestic violence sense. And not on the streets where law enforcement needs to be obeyed - not challenged.

Just my thoughts ...

a reply to: Shamrock6

Thanks for the reply! I just saw it in his interview on CNN with George Stephanopoulos. I had not heard his claim that no one heard his "shots fired, send more cars" call because during the altercation in the car his radio got switched to Channel 3. I am wondering if we have looked into this yet?

I also find the claim by the Lt. Gov. that the Gov. delayed deploying the National Guard Monday curious and one that should be explored. At least looking into time lines. The Mayor did send out a plea and we know the guard was at the ready/waiting.

A business owner (missed part of interview) also was claiming police Monday set up to protect some areas/businesses and left other areas/businesses to burn intentionally or that who to protect and serve and who not was pre-decided?

Thanks again.

originally posted by: blupblup

originally posted by: raymundoko

a reply to: blupblup

just a sickening case and one I'm happy to criticise the Police for.

Unlike many of the idiots defending the officer who murdered Brown.

So if you defend the officer, you're an idiot. Glad to see you're high and mighty enough to judge people who don't share your opinion about things. I believe the last person with you're esteem was nailed to a cross 2,000 years ago. But I digress. Where does it say exactly in the grand jury decision that it says he 'murdered' Brown? He should be put on trial then instead of no indictment. OMG, they made a fatal mistake. Quick! Reconvene the jury.

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

This was discussed before somewhere else in the thread, I don't know where, but here it goes again.

The admin. and DOJ supposedly told the National Guard to stand down. See the video, forget the source article is Alex Jones.

"Official: Obama Ordered National Guard Stand-Down During Ferguson Riots
Missouri Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder makes stunning claim"
www.infowars.com...

Actually protest organizers requested no police presence in designated areas with the promise of no violence. Police didn't voluntarily ignore certain areas.

"To that end, organizers are asking that police respect established "sanctuary safe spaces" and regard them as off-limits"
www.commondreams.org...

a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Point by point: again, I don't know anything about a shots fired call of his radio getting switched. What I read in his statement to the grand jury was that he asked for a second unit to be dispatched to him between the first and second verbal engagements. As far as the radios go, they either have knobs that turn from one channel to the next, or buttons. Incidental contact can easily change the channel, all the more so if there was a flurry of movement inside the vehicle.

I saw the same claim as well, but also saw yesterday the governor got pretty ticked off about the suggestion. Playing devils advocate, it's entirely possible that if he did delay it, it may have been in an effort to not appear heavy handed.

In a situation like this, you have finite resources. You could, theoretically anyway, put a line of officers one deep all the way up and down the street. Or you can triage the area and put groups of officers 6 deep in front of the most likely targets, or those whose loss would have the more significant impact on the community ( a donut shop sitting by itself in a parking lot is a loss if burned, but a dry cleaner that's connected to two other businesses has the potential for greater loss if it's burned because it's attached). It's not perfect but there's not really a way around it either.

originally posted by: Shamrock6

PDs use multiple channels. could be channel 2, or 10, or 15. being channel three has no real significance. there's any number of reasons to have multiple channels. that being said, I haven't seen anything with Wilson claiming what you say he did. all I've seen is him calling for a backup unit early in the altercation.

That's what about he said in his strange testimony.
NYT - Darren Wilson's testimony
Page 32 in the NYT document, page 226 in the actual document.

Wilson: As I'm getting out of the car, I tell dispatch, "shots fired, send me more cars."

It wasn't until later that he figures out he was on a different channel. Page 45 of the NYT document, page 239 of the actual document.

Wilson: So then I looked at it and I was on channel 3.

I encourage every member to take some time out of their day to read Wilson's testimony. You will see things like:

• Wilson confirming much of what Dorian Johnson said (the "destination" statement, Wilson backing up at them, cutting them off with his vehicle - close enough that when he tried to open the door, Brown allegedly slammed the door)
  
• Wilson cutting them off with his vehicle - close enough that when he tried to open the door, Brown allegedly slammed the door)
  
• Wilson admitting to trying to shove Brown with the door at least once
  
• Wilson claiming he was punched twice and not knowing what was going on while he processed the use of force triangle
  
• Wilson likening the 6'4" 292 lbs Brown to Hulk Hogan and himself (6'4" ~210 lbs) to a five-year-old
  
• Wilson not being able to tell if his face showed evidence of injury in photographs
  
• Wilson being afraid Brown is going to take his gun as he is pulling the trigger with it pointed towards Brown
  
• Wilson hiding his face while simultaneously racking the slide of his gun to chamber a round
  
• Wilson firing at Brown without looking (the second shot, which Wilson said didn't hit, but caused Brown to flee - even though he wasn't looking)
  
• Wilson's bizarre statement that Brown was "bulking up to run through the shots"
  
• Wilson knowingly and purposely firing at Brown's head ("I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot")
  
• Wilson going back to his SUV to turn off the vehicle and maybe do other things, it is unclear
  
• Wilson asking to leave the scene and being given his supervisor's vehicle to travel back alone to the station.
  
• Wilson going to the station and noticing he had blood all over his hand, then thoroughly washing it off as soon as he can without photographs or anything (Is that procedure? Also, I wonder if that might be why there is blood in various places such as inside his vehicle, etc)
  
• Wilson clarifying that he drew the pistol from its holster, introducing it to the altercation
  
• Wilson claiming that Brown had complete control of the weapon when Brown could see it, and the jury calling him out on that.
  
• Wilson deferring to a Fraternal Order of Police representative before writing a statement by procedure.
  
• Wilson claiming the entire incident - seeing the two men to Brown being dead in the street - lasted less than a minute.
  

Among other things. It is an... interesting account, to say the least. Remember, the jury need only probable cause to indict - and at least 9 members are required to find probable cause in order to return a true bill. Any fewer than 9 results in no true bill; heck, 8 of the 12 (66%) could have thought they had probable cause and he wouldn't have been indicted.

a reply to: UnBreakable

Thanks, that reiterates the Lt. Gov. Claim. I just haven't seen an analysis of when and how they were sent/not sent in beyond a denial that it was because of pressure. Questions remain.

I did not get the impression the business was in a safe zone referenced above but did miss part of that report. Questions remain.

Most importantly, who does use Channel 3 and was this call confirmed? Heck everything is recorded nowadays. Surely his claim can be confirmed. I have to question any police policy that has them pursuing a suspect solo before back up arrives, especially following a physical altercation.

a reply to: blupblup

originally posted by: Wookiep
All that government crap happened in secret and has nothing to do with racism by the American people, and has no bearing on anyone who didn't even exist then. You want to blame "whiteys" who had nothing to do with it in order to get special treatment 45 years later? That's on you. Be resentful, and keep that knife inside you, stay a victim forever. Doesn't solve a damn thing, nor does it say anything about the time we are in NOW.

You are prescribing opinions to me that I do not hold, here.

It is a context for things. Some people would like to pretend that everything happens in a vacuum - that a little black girl has every opportunity that a little white boy has - when that typically isn't the case. The disparities in wages, education, and a variety of other indicators with, regards to gender and race, are well-documented.

Schools get their funding from their area - poorer schools are poor because their areas are poor, while the rich school I went to was exceptionally well-funded because that area was vastly wealthier than the others in town. That's why my parents moved us to the area - my neighborhood wasn't particularly wealthy, but it was on the outskirts of the same school district.

originally posted by: Monger
a reply to: blupblup

Redacted as the post I responded to; redacted...

That's 2 people who have replied or quoted me and then removed their posts??
WTF?

a reply to: blupblup

Its weird, I don't have a reply button at the top of the thread.

Only way I can reply is to reply to a person, but then I just remove the "reply to post" part.

Maybe that's what some are doing and just not removing the part that is a reply to you.

Could be wrong......

originally posted by: TiedDestructor

originally posted by: nullafides

originally posted by: jhn7537
Mike Brown seemed like a good, misunderstood kid... When I was in HS and around 18 I remember taking pictures with guns and wads of cash to... I guess the media doesn't want you to know that he was in fact a thug, but instead lets keep calling him an "unarmed black teen/child"... I know lots of teens and children and none of them act like this...

Does immaturity in a non violently act of immaturity translate to someone who would act violently?


Didn't you do anything stupid as a kid or young adult? I certainly did. Today, I am different.

Yea we toilet papered houses; sneaked into the school and glued everything on our teachers desk down.

But posting up like a gang member and all that jazz?

Come on now. Downplaying this type thuggishness?

Hmmm. So, a child dressing as a vampire for Halloween is to be labelled a "Blood Drinking Killer" ?

Sorry, I do not agree with you in the general sense of your assertion. I believe it is entirely too broad of a brush stroke to take. Not necessarily with this situation, but with anyone in general.

a reply to: stosh64

Maybe...?
That's weird that you don't have a button? Are you blocking anything?

a reply to: blupblup

I don't think so.

All other threads I've checked have a reply at the top.

But this thread I only have favorite, unsubscribe and alert. Odd. Mods?

Using ex-gang bangers to reach hardcore urban kids isn't always successful. But it's worth investigating if it can help defuse the violence, and be properly supervised. These programs have been a proven success elsewhere in Missouri. Are any of them being used in Ferguson?

people.missouristate.edu...
WHAT REFORMED GANG MEMBERS COULD DO
"At one of the juvenile officer's suggestions, I invited Jose to visit with the youth in the detention center and brought him to town for that purpose. He spoke with the juvenile gang bangers for about an hour. The impact of his words were palpable. They had never met a sophisticated and dangerous gangster and they were actually frightened.

"I don't know what will become of those juvenile gang members in the long-term, but, a few months later, the juvenile officers told me some of them were offending less often or had gotten out of the gang life all together. Will this work every time? I don't know. Does it have the potential of being a valuable tool in the tool chest of solutions? I have no doubt about that.

"Former gang members are an asset as part of a prevention and intervention strategy when they speak with gang- and non-gang youth (i.e., in a faith institution youth group, in school auditorium presentations, at camp, a the detention center and jail). In the Netherlands, Werdmolder (1997) found ex-drug users and ex-gang-members valuable as instructors."

www.foxnews.com...
(2010) LOS ANGELES' EX-GANGSTERS TRAIN TO GO AGAINST GANG LIFE
"Townsend's no cop. He's an ex-Crip, and one of the ranks of former gang bangers known as "gang interventionists" who police have come to rely on to ease tensions. But the recent felony convictions of several of them and the case of another accused of ordering a hit on a detective have undermined their credibility and proven an embarrassment to the city's anti-gang office that has funded them.

"To bolster the program, officials are offering them training to help them walk the hazardous line between gangs and the police, without endangering themselves or others and without falling back into gang life.

"It's very difficult work to do and it takes a toll on the person," said Guillermo Cespedes, director of the Mayor's Office on Gang Reduction and Youth Development. "How to train professionals in that field is a challenge."

www.suntimes.com...
(2011) CHICAGO'S "VIOLENCE INTERRUPTERS"
"Known as “violence interrupters,” Flamo’s surprise guests are here for one reason only: to prevent a murder — maybe several — by talking their riled-up subject down off the proverbial ledge. Eventually he chills out, stows his firearm and joins them for lunch. Crisis averted. For the time being, anyway.

"As part of a University of Illinois at Chicago-based violence prevention program called CeaseFire, which is itself an initiative of UIC epidemiology and international health professor Gary Slutkin’s 16-year-old Chicago Project for Violence Prevention (CPVP), the interrupters don’t break up gangs or squelch drug deals.

"Stopping shootings and other attacks, whether spontaneous or retaliatory, before they happen is the group’s sole mission. As with the recent slayings of 6-year-old Englewood resident Arianna Gibson and 13-year-old South Sider Darius Brown, they’re not always successful."