Is Jesus the serpent of the Genesis and the one in Numbers?

originally posted by: Abednego
It does said ancient serpent, but does not allude to the garden of Eden. Satan is not the only dragon, ancient serpent mentioned in the bible.

You leave out the key phrase so that it fits your point.

“The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” Rev 12:9

What other ancient serpent leads the whole world astray in the Bible.

None fit that description save for The Serpent in the Garden.

The snake on the pole is a very ancient symbol, as told by Acharya in this four year old post here at ATS:

originally posted by: Acharya
The oldest known image of two snakes coiling around a center rod is of the Sumerian god Ningishzida [1]



, here seen accompanied by two gryphons. The image predates the Caduceus of Hermes, the Rod of Asclepius and the staff of Moses by more than a millennium[2].

He is called "lord of the good tree"[3], or "lord who makes the trees grow right"[4]. I believe therefore that the rod in the center is a symbol for the Tree of Life, as he is also depicted as a snake[1].

Some call the rod a spinal cord, this may be because they want to believe that the reason why the snakes usually cross each other seven times is to represent the seven chakras[5]. The obvious problem with this theory is that the earliest known mention of chakras is found in the later Upanishads[6] which were composed in the medieval and early modern period[7], long after the Sumerians.

Personally, I believe this is a symbol for the human DNA, as has been suggested by other researchers. To me, it is just another symbolic representation of the gift from Satan in the bible's Garden of Eden, it is the same story, told in countless number of variations over thousands of years. The story in its most basic form is that of the awakening of the human mind in ancient times, this was not accidental, but was a gift from Satan. It is also called the "Dawn of Man", and is symbolized by the rising sun etc. I also believe that the reason the snakes usually cross each other seven times is a symbol of the seven original angels, of which Lucifer was their leader, but I have no proof of this.

[1] Ningishzida, Wikipedia
[2] Turner, Frederick. Natural Religion. Transaction Publishers. ISBN 0765803321
[3] The Deity Ningishzida
[4] Gods, Demons & Immortals whose Names Start with 'N'
[5] Serpent (Symbolism), Wikipedia
[6] Chakras, Chrystal links
[7] Upanishads, Wikipedia

I would like to add that Enki's image is also a double-helix snake, or the Caduceus.

-MM

a reply to: backcase

The authors of the Gospels certainly want that to be the case, but there are quite a few Jews that would claim otherwise. But, that's what separates the Jews from the Christians, The belief that the Messiah has come and that it was Jesus, so the Gospels need to interpret the Old Testament in a way that fits their beliefs.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, I'm just stating that when you have to change the nature of the text to make the symbols work, it's a loose symbol. That's the problem with reconning old work, it's hard to get it 100% without changing the source, and since the source was already so widely established, they had to fudge it a little to get it to work.

As far as retconning go, I give it to them. Jesus was clearly trying to claim to be as the Brass Serpent was. It's a good allegory made by someone who certainly knew his torah.

My opinion:
The snake is a metaphor for the male gender thingy...
Like the apple is for wisdom.

Satan is the older Godesses being slayed, by all the "saints" which installed faith in the monotheistical gods.
The carnal lust was apparently a big problem, back in the day.

a reply to: backcase

i do not think the serpant on a pole was a prophecy but you raise a good point. the serpent staff is whole when two serpents are on it. there seems to be many speaking now that serpants are bad and created by the devil. i do not like em around me at all but they were created in the begining along with everything else. the symbol of the serpants pole does seem to sum up a dna strand well and also the politicol divide in the minds of humans. the whole right brain vs left brain fight. what i see is that the snake seems to be the smartest animal form a spirit can take and likely every great one mentioned in the bible had the snke as their animal avatar while they belittle eachother.

understanding our need to incarnate into animals along with the human form can clear up much about the bible and humanity but science is not there yet and does not know of how it could be possible to be at two places at once. it is just a matter of information. i see that all our chackras have a mind of their own and the true beast is between our legs. that is why some speak of some kundilini rising and taking control. balance must be maintained and no chackra left behind.

@ Is Jesus the serpent of the Genesis and the one in Numbers?
-sensitive data share no misguide program-

1 is not sure if the LORD JESUS CHRIST is genetically or in SPIRIT the serpent or related to THE...
However it is recommended that the labeled which scares many the serpent (predating GENESIS literature) be researched as to better understand why the label serpent was given the who taught HUMANS of the knowledge of Good & Evil, and who gave the label to the.

Conclusion- is it easier to deceive a CREATOR Creation who has no knowledge of Good & Evil or is it easier to deceive a CREATOR Creation who is aware of good & evil...
1 ponders this because why then would a evil CREATOR ENERGY teach some unaware of its evil so that the moment they gained awareness they would fear and flee from the and speak of the throughout history as the evil 1? Or did THE wish to aware the Human genetics of something later to be encountered that THE NU would be encountered by the taught in time?

With this in mind who was LORD JESUS CHRIST a potential inter-dimensional or ultra-dimensional if not hybrid being calling FATHER in the HEAVENS above EA*RTH?

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

originally posted by: Peeple
My opinion:
The snake is a metaphor for the male gender thingy...
Like the apple is for wisdom.

Satan is the older Godesses being slayed, by all the "saints" which installed faith in the monotheistical gods.
The carnal lust was apparently a big problem, back in the day.

Sexuality is a huge problem for any culture that doesn't track its lineage through the female line. I mean, if the Male is to be the primary, then we have to trust that the Man was the one that impregnated the Woman. If the Woman is the primary, it is harder to suggest that the Woman didn't give birth to the heir to the family.

Many Ancient American cultures tracked lineage through the female, most notably being The White Lady, who was like the Pharaoh of the Mississippi river valley around the 1200s. She was seen as a Goddess and was married to a commoner, who would father her children until a female heir was born, the next White Lady. After the White Lady died, the fathers first born son would kill him, and he would go into the afterlife with The White Lady, and when that happened, the cycle would start over again, with a new White Lady and a new common husband.

originally posted by: AgentShillington

originally posted by: Abednego
It does said ancient serpent, but does not allude to the garden of Eden. Satan is not the only dragon, ancient serpent mentioned in the bible.

You leave out the key phrase so that it fits your point.

“The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” Rev 12:9

What other ancient serpent leads the whole world astray in the Bible.


None fit that description save for The Serpent in the Garden.

The book of Enoch clearly states who were the ones that lead the world astray. (it is not a canonical book, but from the Apocrypha, it is the one with the more reliable info)

a reply to: Abednego

The Book of Enoch isn't in the Bible, as you have already states, so it doesn't mean anything in relation to what The Bible says in regards to whom it says is the Ancient Serpent who led the world astray.

It would be like trying to argue if Darth Vadar was good or bad by referencing something that happened in a Batman comic.

ETA:

Luke 24:44 "Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

What is lacking here is the Deuterocanonical Scriptures, of which Enoch belongs. Jesus himself is stating which books to hold holy, which are part of the canon. If something isn't in this list, and it existed at the time of this report by Luke, it is safe to assume Jesus didn't dig.

Jesus isn't down with Enoch.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
@ Is Jesus the serpent of the Genesis and the one in Numbers?
-sensitive data share no misguide program-

1 is not sure if the LORD JESUS CHRIST is genetically or in SPIRIT the serpent or related to THE...
However it is recommended that the labeled which scares many the serpent (predating GENESIS literature) be researched as to better understand why the label serpent was given the who taught HUMANS of the knowledge of Good & Evil, and who gave the label to the.

Conclusion- is it easier to deceive a CREATOR Creation who has no knowledge of Good & Evil or is it easier to deceive a CREATOR Creation who is aware of good & evil...
1 ponders this because why then would a evil CREATOR ENERGY teach some unaware of its evil so that the moment they gained awareness they would fear and flee from the and speak of the throughout history as the evil 1? Or did THE wish to aware the Human genetics of something later to be encountered that THE NU would be encountered by the taught in time?

With this in mind who was LORD JESUS CHRIST a potential inter-dimensional or ultra-dimensional if not hybrid being calling FATHER in the HEAVENS above EA*RTH?

NAMASTE
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

Saraph - hebrew word use for venomous serpent.
Seraph - hebrew word use for seraphim (in singular), meaning "burning ones". Bible does refer to Satan (or adversary) as a dragon (dragon spits fire and all that), the other dragon mention in the bible is Leviathan.
Angels, Archangels, Cherubims are believe to bring light (they are light beings), therefore they, too, can or could fit the description of "burning ones", fire brings light and you can feel the heat.

About the deception; gnostics text give you an idea of how big the deception can be. (is just another myth that may or may not be real)

From the book of Enoch XLVI. The Head of Days and the Son of Man.

1. And there I saw One who had a head of days,
And His head was white like wool,
And with Him was another being whose countenance had the appearance of a man,
And his face was full of graciousness, like one of the holy angels.

2. And I asked the angel who went with me and showed me all the hidden things, concerning that Son of Man, who he was, and whence he was, (and)

p. 64

why he went with the Head of Days? And he answered and said unto me:

This is the son of Man who hath righteousness,
With whom dwelleth righteousness,
And who revealeth all the treasures of that which is hidden,

Because the Lord of Spirits hath chosen him,
And whose lot hath the pre-eminence before the Lord of Spirits in uprightness for ever.

4, And this Son of Man whom thou hast seen
Shall †raise up† the kings and the mighty from their seats,
[And the strong from their thrones]

And shall loosen the reins of the strong,
And break the teeth of the sinners.

In eastern philosophy the serpent represent the kundalini energy (prana/chi/light) within the body that rises with increased awareness that can both be good or bad for the person and the people around the person.

The serpent is represented in man in both its constructive and its destructive aspects. The Higher Self, the will-wisdom of the spiritual Soul, corresponds to the serpent of light, while the desire nature [personality] contains destructive potentialities. The mind is the balancing force, or rod, between these two oppositely polarised energies, or serpent, in man.

Contemplation of the symbol of the caduceus will reveal how perfectly it portrays that process and that attainment. This saving power, the Christos, entered into the man Jesus, the human vehicle, at the moment of his baptism in Jordan, and from then on Jesus began to work miracles by divine authority. Holding of the caduceus [or rod or serpent] in the hand is itself a symbol implying mastery of a power, [the second initiation], and the possession of knowledge and skill in its employment.

edgeba.webs.com...

a reply to: Abednego



Makes me think of the ones who burn with Kundalini flame/have energized body flame.

Contemporary music that from my point of view is discussing the same thing.


Namaste

a reply to: AgentShillington

As I was discussing with retconning, there is more evidence that the authors wanted to tie the serpent of Eden with Satan, than there is to suggest a tie with Jesus.

Revelation 20:2

He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Revelation leaves no doubt who the snake of the Garden is. Yahweh made the snake.

a reply to: AlephBet

what proof do you have that he created the snake or a snake? seems to me that he used what was here after creation.

a reply to: deadeyedick

The proof is in Genesis, according to the book, Yaweh is the creator of all things. If that is so... then it only stands to reason that Yaweh created the Snake.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: AlephBet

what proof do you have that he created the snake or a snake? seems to me that he used what was here after creation.

No proof. Only these words:

Genesis 3

3 The snake was more clever than all the wild animals Yahweh Elohim had made.

originally posted by: AgentShillington
a reply to: deadeyedick

The proof is in Genesis, according to the book, Yahweh is the creator of all things. If that is so... then it only stands to reason that Yaweh created the Snake.

Not the creator. He formed Adam (not created). He made the snake (made is a different word than create). He formed Eve and planted the garden. Nothing there that says create. That word create is used for Elohim in Genesis 1. Elohim is Father and Ruach Elohim is Mother. After the fall in Genesis 3, Yahweh Elohim loses his Elohim. Just Yahweh in Genesis 4.

originally posted by: AlephBet

originally posted by: AgentShillington
a reply to: deadeyedick

The proof is in Genesis, according to the book, Yahweh is the creator of all things. If that is so... then it only stands to reason that Yaweh created the Snake.

Not the creator. He formed Adam (not created). He made the snake (made is a different word than create). He formed Eve and planted the garden. Nothing there that says create. That word create is used for Elohim in Genesis 1. Elohim is Father and Ruach Elohim is Mother. After the fall in Genesis 3, Yahweh Elohim loses his Elohim. Just Yahweh in Genesis 4.

Are you kidding me right now?

ויקרא אלהים ׀ לאור יום ולחשך קרא לילה ויהי־ערב ויהי־בקר יום אחד׃פ

Or maybe Acts, if the Hebrew doesn't agree with you.

Ἀθηναῖοι δὲ πάντες καὶ οἱ ἐπιδημοῦντες ξένοι εἰς οὐδὲν ἕτερον ηὐκαίρουν ἢ λέγειν τι ἢ ἀκούειν τι καινότερον.

Both of these are the original languages of the text and place Yaweh as the sole architect of creation.

a reply to: AlephBet

so you say elohim created everything?
that yahwey elohim is yahwey after eve?

genesis 3
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

you may find some thought in how sometimes it is lord and god and others it is lord god