Cleveland cop kills child

originally posted by: RalagaNarHallas
a reply to: threeeyesopen

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pictureplane.files.wordpress.com... does no one remember KONY?
not sure i embedded those correctly but gee not like children have been turned into armies and used to kill people much older then they are before being a child is not a get out of dangerous situation free card

and your suggestion that cops should have to be shot first(they have body armor) before returning fire is laughable and something that is not likely to happen any time soon if ever ,and on body armor while not really relevant to this case cops aren't the only ones with body armor these days i my self have three sets ranging from actually useful to Halloween costume level and just like being a kid is not a get out of dangerous situation card neither is wearing body armor always effective

kony was proven fake. But hey, lets not let facts come out and play..

Kids 12 years old are old enough to know right from wrong, and understand simple commands like "put your hands up" and understand going for a gun, might not be the best idea.

This is a very sad situation all the way around.

a reply to: Justaposter

does anyone know for a fact the cop even said put your hands up? or is that what they are saying after the fact? I mean if the cop was in fear for his life and had to make a split second decision do you really think he would even say anything or would he just react? I am willing to bet he shot first because he failed to assess the situation my guess is the cop got all excited because he saw someone with a gun and shot the poor child. First they say that the police witnessed the kid picking up the toy from a table why didn't they approach before the kid even re possessed the toy? Why didnt dispatch relay its a child "probably with a toy" (from their source information) Why did the drunk guy in the bar feel threatened by the kid while drinking in a bar? Why didn't anyone else in the park call 9-11 if there was a threat? Why wasn't anyone running out of the park in a panic because of a dangerous kid? These are things that will be addressed in the investigation. The cop was clearly in the wrong and took advantage of a fringe lethal force situation. Soldiers deal with armed people even kids everyday in a real hostile and dangerous arena and they don't always just shoot people because most of them have common sense and are not trigger happy morons. has no one ever heard of the 21 foot rule? If the cop was close enough to tell this kid something he was also close enough to bum rush the kid before the kid could draw and fire, I am not saying even that was necessary but even that would have been more except-able then just shooting like an idiot.

a reply to: Shamrock6

There's no indication of any racial element to the incident, but you insist on painting it in a racist light

Since more blacks as a percentage of the population are killed by police then these facts (Like the one I linked to) suggest that in some cases a racist element is involved else we would not have this huge discrepancy.

I don't know if this particular case was defiantly swayed by the racial aspect of the case no more you can deny its not, we don't know for sure but we cannot continue to give the police the benefit of doubt when it keeps happening time and again.

No one would know about this case was it a black police officer that pulled the trigger because it would be rare and what people are scrutinizing is the number of blacks that are being killed by white police and the reason people are now scrutinizing the police is because the numbers speak for themselves.

Fault the numbers if you like but don't shoot the messenger

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: Shamrock6

There's no indication of any racial element to the incident, but you insist on painting it in a racist light

Since more blacks as a percentage of the population are killed by police then these facts (Like the one I linked to) suggest that in some cases a racist element is involved else we would not have this huge discrepancy.

I don't know if this particular case was defiantly swayed by the racial aspect of the case no more you can deny its not, we don't know for sure but we cannot continue to give the police the benefit of doubt when it keeps happening time and again.

No one would know about this case was it a black police officer that pulled the trigger because it would be rare and what people are scrutinizing is the number of blacks that are being killed by white police and the reason people are now scrutinizing the police is because the numbers speak for themselves.

Fault the numbers if you like but don't shoot the messenger

Great point, one thing for sure that can be easily seen racially motivated or not, these police are very much out of touch with the people and the communities they are assigned to serve. I bet the majority live in fear one way or another for their local leos I know i would if I lived there.

a reply to: Brotherman

does anyone know for a fact the cop even said put your hands up? or is that what they are saying after the fact? I mean if the cop was in fear for his life and had to make a split second decision do you really think he would even say anything or would he just react?

You are saying just what I am say and that is the police are starting to make it up as they go along.

20 to 30 years ago I think we could in most cases take them at their word but the system is broken today and you would need a very stretched imagination to go along with some of the so called facts they are putting out today.

This type of corruption is not like a cop wants to make a bit of money on the side but is endemic since it comes from the top down.

a reply to: VirusGuard

I already said I wouldn't dispute the numbers. My issue isn't the numbers. My issue is you immediately pulling the race card without any cause to do so. I have no cause to say it's NOT race based, but then again I haven't said its not, I've simply pointed out that you're claiming its a race based issue without any reason to do so. Cite all the statistics you like, it doesn't change the fact that you're trying to inject race into this with, so far, no reason to do so other than stats that don't really indicate racial motivation. Are the stats skewed? Yep. Heavily? Yep, won't argue that either. But just because the prison population is what it is doesn't automatically mean every white cop is a racist.

Your comment that if a black cop shot this kid, nobody ever would've heard about it is absolutely ludicrous. You can insert any race gender orientation you want, it was still a 12 year old kid with what turned out to be a fake gun. To claim the media wouldn't have picked up on that is just mind blowingly obtuse.

a reply to: Greven


If the cops story is real, I don't blame him for shooting. How would he know? What kid reaches for a gun(fake or not) when you have a cop with a gun pointed towards them? I think even a cop who had been on the force for years would have done the same thing.

I think it's high time we get rid of these 'fake guns.' Obviously they are made to be way too realistic, and kids don't know how to be smart with them. I don't particularly like the idea of toy guns to begin with. Kids play with them, and then later on think that real guns are toys. And they aren't.

originally posted by: Brotherman

I am willing to bet he shot first because he failed to assess the situation my guess is the cop got all excited because he saw someone with a gun and shot the poor child
of course you are willing to bet that because thats what you want to believe....im willing to bet the cop said put your hands up and instead he went for the grab...see how it works...now which one of us is right?



. First they say that the police witnessed the kid picking up the toy from a table why didn't they approach before the kid even re possessed the toy?
you mean why didnt they teleport brundle fly style from the station to the picnic table??? why didnt they vaporize themselves and get from the car to the kid in an instant???? what kind of questions are these? they have to hop out of the car. they have to move toward the people....things can happen in that amount of time



Why didnt dispatch relay its a child "probably with a toy" (from their source information)
good call. tell the cops that it is probably a toy even though they didnt know that for sure.....i mean hey, the source is a drunk at a bar...theyre never wrong..


Why did the drunk guy in the bar feel threatened by the kid while drinking in a bar?
well his call said that there was a kid pointing a gun at people and scaring people...he said it was 'probably' a toy and then he said he didnt know if it was a toy...of course he didnt know...how could he? he was across the street at a bar


Why didn't anyone else in the park call 9-11 if there was a threat? Why wasn't anyone running out of the park in a panic because of a dangerous kid?
not even valid questions imo....what other people did or did not do has nothing to do with what the kid and the cop did or did not do


. The cop was clearly in the wrong and took advantage of a fringe lethal force situation.
clear cause you say so? i dont see it that way...lots of people in this thread dont see it that way...you the authority on this?


If the cop was close enough to tell this kid something he was also close enough to bum rush the kid before the kid could draw and fire
back to the evaporation, teleportation argument i see.....you do realize this is real life right? real life does not work like a die hard or expendables movie


, I am not saying even that was necessary but even that would have been more except-able then just shooting like an idiot.

your arguments are laughable at best....
since you have all the answers why not join the police force? show them how it is done rambo...make a difference...set an example

a reply to: Grovit

A grand jury in Cleveland will decide whether to charge an officer who shot and killed a 12-year-old boy holding a toy gun at a park over the weekend, officials said Monday. Investigators have obtained video evidence of the moment a Cleveland police officer shot Tamir Rice, police chief Calvin Williams said at a news conference Monday. The video is not yet being released, but Cleveland Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said it showed the officer was "very close" when he fired the two shots at the boy's torso. Two officers were involved in the incident, but only one of them fired a gun.

Source

you mean why didnt they teleport brundle fly style from the station to the picnic table??? why didnt they vaporize themselves and get from the car to the kid in an instant???? what kind of questions are these? they have to hop out of the car. they have to move toward the people....things can happen in that amount of time

No one needed to teleport fly as the police chief describes the officer as "VERY CLOSE" before the shooting by saying that I am asserting that means probably an arm or twos length as if it were not they could have used other words to describe the situation.

Why didn't anyone else in the park call 9-11 if there was a threat? Why wasn't anyone running out of the park in a panic because of a dangerous kid?
not even valid questions imo....what other people did or did not do has nothing to do with what the kid and the cop did or did not do

Of course the people in the immediate area have a whole lot to do with the investigation especially in help deciding the over all picture in that moment in time.

If the cop was close enough to tell this kid something he was also close enough to bum rush the kid before the kid could draw and fire
back to the evaporation, teleportation argument i see.....you do realize this is real life right? real life does not work like a die hard or expendables movie

No need for magic teleporters, the officer was close enough already.

As far as becoming a cop, no one can reform the police by themselves nor can anyone change the institution from the inside.

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: Grovit

A grand jury in Cleveland will decide whether to charge an officer who shot and killed a 12-year-old boy holding a toy gun at a park over the weekend, officials said Monday. Investigators have obtained video evidence of the moment a Cleveland police officer shot Tamir Rice, police chief Calvin Williams said at a news conference Monday. The video is not yet being released, but Cleveland Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said it showed the officer was "very close" when he fired the two shots at the boy's torso. Two officers were involved in the incident, but only one of them fired a gun.

Source


As far as becoming a cop, no one can reform the police by themselves nor can anyone change the institution from the inside.

thats great that a grand jury is investigating....as they should, every time there is a shooting and a person dies...they are doing their job, just like the cop.

youre right...nobody can reform or change the institution by themselves.....too bad everyone that has the answers(like you) dont sign up.....you know, to fix the 'problems'....

i also think it is funny how people can sit on the sideline sand make these comments about how the cop should have done this or could have done that....

i couldnt even imagine how i would feel if i was in a situation where there even 'might' be a gun and i have to face it...
people always say "i would have done this and i would have done that" but they dont know...they might shake like a leaf and on their way to 'bum rush 'get shot in the face or miss the 'leg shot' and wind up taking someone else out...

you never really know how youre gonna act or your reaction time....

several months ago my wife and i were sitting on the couch at about 10pm and were were snacking...all of a sudden it sounded like a gun went off...it was crazy loud....
i reacted of course but not as fast as i would have thought i would....

first thing i did was freeze(not for long,,,maybe 1 second)...it was so loud and unexpected it took me a second to process what was happening.....turns out someone threw a rock through our front window

when i did react i shoved my wife on the floor and dove on the floor myself...i told her to crawl back to my daughters room and pull her off her bed and stay on the floor. i crawled over to the door and made my way outside...at that point i did not know what it was....sounded like a gun shot and thats what i thought it was....

i was so friggin scared....my heart was pounding out of my chest....i was shaking....i didnt know what was waiting for me on the other side of the door.....


my point is if someone would have asked me what i would have done in that situation before it happened, i would have all the answers...i would have it all spelled out exactly what i would do and how tough i would be...i would have known exactly how i would have taken out the person in my yard had there been someone there.....

the reality is that was not the case....it took a second at least for me to even do anything...i was jacked up man....my baby was in the house...i didnt curl up and hide in the corner of course...i had to handle it but i was scared man......i didnt know if someone had a gun and was gonna pop me when i got out the door.....

my point is it is very easy to say should have could have, i would have.....

your body gets jacked....heart rate goes up...BP goes up.....

i could not even imagine how i would react if i knew i was about to face a person(12 years old or not) that MIGHT have a gun......no way

a reply to: VirusGuard

Oddly enough, there's some fresh news. As of three hours ago, the PD hadn't identified either of the officers present at the time of the shooting. Nor has the PD disclosed their ethnicity. And when asked, a family attorney "immediately dismissed" any question of a race based shooting, stating "this isn't a black on white issue." Oh my....

a reply to: Brotherman

Fortunately for the officer, he will be judged on how the situation appeared to HIM at the time of the shooting and not on how it appeared to somebody else who wasn't involved in the situation in any way other than by proximity.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Nor has the PD disclosed their ethnicity. And when asked, a family attorney "immediately dismissed" any question of a race based shooting, stating "this isn't a black on white issue." Oh my....

imagine that...the family seems to have their wits about them

i wonder what all these race baiters are going to say if it turns out the cop that killed the black kid was black...or japanese....

a reply to: Grovit

We will see how it pans out in time I hope. I understand your view is different then mine, and you don't need to assert I haven't had my fair share of dealings in similar situations in my past career. The veteran officer didn't shoot that says a lot to me.

a reply to: Brotherman

Why does it say a lot to you? I haven't read anything at all that says what his actions were. Maybe he was in a poor position to do anything. Maybe he tripped and fell. Maybe they forgot to put the cruiser in park and he was running after it. Maybe he was on the radio at the time. Maybe he dropped his weapon when drawing it. There's dozens of potential reasons for why the other officer did or didn't do what they did or didn't do. We know none of them.

Very tragic, but this situation could have been avoided.

I could understand if there was some misunderstanding, but if a Police Officer who has Authority and a Badge, I would drop what I would be holding, But hey what would be the odds of the kid was disabled in someway and didn't know what is right from wrong? Manufactures are now required to color replica firearms with an Orange Barrel, showing that its a fake, but not sure why this one doesn't have the Orange Stub on it.

originally posted by: Promagstyle
, But hey what would be the odds of the kid was disabled in someway and didn't know what is right from wrong?

seems like with a lot of people anything is possibly except for what has been said has happened..
racist cop? oh yeah..possible
mentally challenged kid? totally possible
justified shooting....only thing thats not possible

wow

a reply to: Promagstyle

The requirement is for either an orange barrel cap or an orange stripe. The barrel cap had been removed from the toy gun.

The cap can be removed with nearly any kind of tool in about a minute.

So several people are sitting under a tree and a boy puts a gun in his pants. Instead of calmly getting out of vehicle and walking toward them to ask for the weapon, he draws his gun and tells a 12 year old to put his hands in the air. Then the according to police the kid reached for gun in his waistband. Somehow I doubt that this story is going according to police side of things.

Sounds to me the cop acted like a violent idiot instead of approaching the situation like a police officer should. Then the boy probably freaked out, because not everyone is trained or used to having a gun pulled on them, not at 12 or 30 and the cop shot because he's a #ing moron who created the situation in the first place by acting like a #ing cop show. In real life, people get scared when you pull a gun on them when they are minding their own business.

These police need to be charged with manslaughter at the very least. Just because someone calls the cops about a concern does not give them the right to pull a gun on someone before even attempting to approach them in a normal manner.