Cleveland cop kills child

Yesterday, a 12-year-old boy was gunned down by the police.
Cleveland police officer shoots 12-year-old boy carrying BB gun

Police were responding to reports of a male with a gun outside Cudell Recreation Center at Detroit Avenue and West Boulevard about 3:30 p.m., Deputy Chief of Field Operations Ed Tomba said.

A rookie officer and a 10-15 year veteran pulled into the parking lot and saw a few people sitting underneath a pavilion next to the center. The rookie officer saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association President Jeffrey Follmer said.

The officer got out of the car and told the boy to put his hands up. The boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.

Tomba said the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically.

At least one of the shots hit the child in the stomach. He was rushed to MetroHealth Medical Center in serious condition.
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"When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed," Tomba said. "The way it looks like right now, it wasn't followed, but we're going to continue our investigation."

So far, the story is - according to the deputy chief of police - is that a rookie cop ordered this boy to raise his hands, and the boy instead reached for the 'BB gun' in his waistband. Mind you, this is the initial account of the police, and as we have seen - that isn't necessarily accurate.

Today, the unfortunate kid succumbed to his injuries.
12-Year-Old Boy Carrying Replica Gun Dies After Cleveland Officer Shoots

The suspect turned out to be a 12-year-old boy playing with a replica gun that fires pellets. The gun, which was shown to local media at the scene, was missing an orange tip, which is meant to identify a toy gun.

The boy was taken to Metro Health Medical Center. Hospital spokesman Jonah Levin-Rosenblum says he died this morning.

At briefing after the shooting, a police spokesman said the boy did not confront or threaten the officer. In the 911 call obtained by Cleveland.com, an unidentified male says the "guy" was pointing a gun at everybody in the playground and while it was "probably fake" it was scaring him.

The person who called indicated that the gun was probably fake, but this otherwise reminds me of the unfortunate gentleman shot with little warning by police in a Wal-mart based on a 911 call also saying the victim was pointing a gun at people.

The 'gun' in this case may have been not even a BB gun, but an airsoft gun. Oh, and the police responding weren't told about the possibility of it being fake.
Boy with fake gun dies after shot by Ohio officer

Police said the weapon was an "airsoft" type replica that resembled a semi-automatic handgun. The orange safety indicator had been removed, police said.
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Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake.

It might not surprise you to hear that the boy was black.
Cleveland Police Shot And Killed A 12-Year-Old Boy Carrying A Fake Gun In A Playground

The boy was shot in the stomach and torso after police responded to reports that a young black boy was waving a gun in the playground of a recreation center. Police officials say that officers opened fire at the boy after he reached for the BB gun.

Yet another victim in the police war on civilians.

I'm on the fence about this one. If the police version turns out to be correct then is what he did that unexpected?

a reply to: Greven

If the story is true, what option did the officer have in this case? How was the officer supposed to know the gun was fake?

I think it's necessary to separate the bad kills from the questionable ones. (there seem to be enough bad kills as of late)

a reply to: Greven

Terrible story--I've been watching it for the last couple days. I hate when these accidents happen, but this is just that. When the orange tip is removed/missing from a non-lethal firearm such as a pellet gun, this is just asking for trouble from anyone else with a real gun, but especially the police. The LAST thing anyone should do, whether it's a toy or not, is to reach for the weapon when a cop tells you to put up your hands.

This is very unfortunate, but if it happened as is told, it was a terrible misunderstanding that the rookie cop and the family/friends of the boy will have to live with and nothing more. Very sad for all involved

a reply to: WilsonWilson

Unexpected from police? Not really. It's rather similar to the case where a 13 -year-old was gunned down by police when returning a BB gun to a neighbor. That was another miscarriage of justice, in my opinion.

This kid was only 12, according to sources. When's the last time you heard of a 12-year-old shooting a police officer? Has it ever happened? I know some children have murdered people - intentionally, even - but I can't recall any of those people being a cop confronting them.

This link has the 9/11 call where the man clearly states twice that the gun is probably fake and it appeared to be a kid holding it. Its been said the officers were not informed of this. If it was a real gun there wouldn't have been people hanging around they would have been running.
cleveland.com

The 12 year old was black

The Cleveland PD has been under investigation for use of force for 18 months.

My first thoughts are boy(12) told to raise hands in air officers saw gun and boy knew that. So boy went to take the gun out of his waist to lay t on the ground, see that in almost every movie, and officer panic shot.. Thats my take on it anyway.

The age old childhood traddition gets ditched and forgtten as people scramble for reasons to excuse another idiot with a gun wearing a police uniform gunning down innocent black people.

Cowboys and Indians, Cops and Robbers, cap guns and water pistols - none of these things have any meaning except potentially threatening behaviour in the eyes of the perpetually frightened.

a reply to: WilsonWilson

I agree. I am the first to come down on the cops normally.

They are a pack of meatheads... partially because the decent human beings on the force seem to be culled away from the job for some reason. They get away with rape and murder in the most literal possible way as a matter of course, and they for all intents seem to be judicially above the laws inflicted on everyone else.

But in this case, if the police account is actually real, they didn't have much choice. Justifiable homicide. He only fired 2 shots... if that much and the above is true, he is a paragon of restraint amongst police officers.

It was a 12 year old boy probably playing army. It's a gross misuse of lethal force it's not like he was firing off shots. The boy was probably there for hours without a shot fired. ##SNIPPED##

Now if the Brown incident doesn't do it for some folks perhaps this incident will. Things need to change when it comes to law enforcement. Policies needs to be changed and if your not willing to die on the job don't do it, quit.

a reply to: network dude

He was a child. Kids aren't even held accountable for their actions by law, but are we to expect a kid this young to have perfect decision making to avoid getting shot? Why do we expect better decision making from a child than from a paid police officer?

The officer was surely wearing a vest, and obviously had his gun drawn since he shot the kid before the kid ever could have pointed the gun at the officer.

Since we are just relying on the police version of events, suppose one of the officers said to drop the gun? In order to do that, the child would have had to reach for the gun, no? They can give conflicting orders, and picking the right one is apparently the only way not to get shot and killed.

a reply to: Greven

Starred and Flag!

Yet another victim in the police war on civilians.

No! The child was the victim of a case of poor management skills by his parent[s], who let him run around a park with a faulty toy gun [no orange tip!!!] possibly pointing it menacingly at anybody in the area.

It is sad that the child lost his life but I don't think the police officer is at any fault here and seems to have followed protocol.

If the parents had properly policed their child then this unfortunate police officer wouldn't have had to shoot him!

Should parents deeply consider this outcome as a highly possible occurrence happening, i.e. their kid may get shot and possibly killed by cops, IF they buy their child a replica toy weapon

originally posted by: MarsKingAQuestion
If the parents had properly policed their child then this unfortunate police officer wouldn't have had to shoot him!

I think you need to read this statement over again and realize just what you are saying here.

originally posted by: Greven


It might not surprise you to hear that the boy was black.
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man this argument is getting old.....

told him to put his hands up but instead he reaches for the 'gun'...
cop supposed to take a chance and cross his fingers that it really is fake?

even if the call said it 'could' be a fake gun, that also means it 'could' be real....

this crap is getting old....

these type of shootings are nothing new...

i remember a couple stories from 30 years ago in florida when i was a kid....cops shooting kids for this exact thing...

a reply to: MarsKingAQuestion

Did the thought ever occur to you perhaps the toy gun was another kids, and some are even made without the tip. Too early to know either way but one thing for sure, until policy is rewritten this will continue.

Simply SHOULD HAVE and COULD HAVE been avoided!

After thousands of years, we are still terrible at communicating with one another.

Sad story!

a reply to: Grovit

When is the last time a 12-year-old shot a police officer?

And yes, it was wrong then and wrong now. We have failed to solve it as a society.

www.washingtontimes.com... not sure if its the exact bbgun/airsoft gun from the case(picture was not clear) but it looked far more real then i assumed it would have looked

thinkprogress.org...

According to Cleveland.com, someone called 911 describing “a guy with a gun pointing it at people,” but the caller twice suggested the gun was “probably fake” and that the individual was “probably a juvenile,” but none of this information was relayed to police. The officers arrived at the recreation center and ordered the boy to raise his hands, but when he reached for his gun instead, one of the officers fired twice, hitting the boy once. Deputy Chief Ed Tomba explained at a press conference that there was no verbal confrontation; the boy did not threaten the police officers nor point the gun at them. They only learned afterward that the gun was fake — a BB gun with the orange safety marker scratched off. Both officers, one of whom is a rookie in his first year on the force, have been placed on administrative leave, according to protocol.

orange tip had been scraped off to make it look more real by some one so that for sure didn't help. and im sure going for the gun (as multiple sources seem to say he did) was the last straw for the rookie cop who saw what looked like a real gun with Orange tip scraped off (probably had 2-4 seconds to decide what that little booy was doing)and made a split second decision that sadly resulted in the death of a 12 year old boy

pretty damn real looking gun....

all the cops fault right...
where are the parents?

i had oranged tipped toy guns when i was a kid...i played cops and army and all that crap..

at my house in my yard or a friends yard...


to the person said he was probably laying army or whatev...from the article

A rookie officer and a 10-15 year veteran pulled into the parking lot and saw a few people sitting underneath a pavilion next to the center. The rookie officer saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband,
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people sitting at a table with a gun on the table.....far cry from the boys running around playing army.....

this is getting old