Economists Say We Should Tax The Rich At 90 Percent

Plus the mega rich / crony capitilists dont pay there taxes anyway!


If you put the tax up to 90% they will just laugh and continue avoiding it.


It will only be those that dont have political freinds that get hit with it and they will be your honnest hard working buissness owners and high skilled workers.


If you made all those currently avoiding tax pay up as well as take back the stolen taxpayer money from the banks you would likely have enough to even lower taxes!

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: tadaman
The only thing that has been proven to work is allowing people to keep what they earn. There is less money for social programs but all things considered, if we could keep what we earn we would not need social assistance.

No taxation theorem, including an absence of taxation, has been proven to work.

Every single theorem has had successes and failures.

true, but the current system cannot be sustained. the wealthy have an advantage that no other income group enjoys as far as the accumulation....we cannot continue to reward the top .01% of the wealthy, with less of a percentage of taxes paid.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: peck420

I disagree.

Wealth doesnt grow for a country under higher taxation.

If the middle class wasnt the real target of all this I would think like you guys. Since this is not about a 1% who are in many cases not even citizens but international investors, and if it wasnt really about about people making around 100K...which is the middle class, I refuse to entertain moral arguments as if they were founded in logic.

You can disagree all you want, it doesn't make your statements any more accurate.

Aside from that, there are many countries that have found success with higher tax rates than the US, and there are many countries that have found failure with lower tax rates than the US.

Of course, you were already well aware of that.

You were also well aware, I imagine, that the most successful countries have tax rates that closely mirror their citizens perceptions of what is required (in taxation) to run their country.

Not the lowest, not the highest, but closest in line with the citizens expectations.

a reply to: peck420

You can disagree all you want, it doesn't make your statements any more accurate. Right back at you.

If you are talking about France or other places with high taxes you would be talking about life style.

I will not work 20 hour days or 6 month stretches with no days off to live like a European. I will do it to live and retire like an American and for my children to be able to do so if they choose.... And that is both morally valid and socially acceptable, regardless of what you or others think. I have the natural freedom to get what I work /fight for.

originally posted by: jimmyx
true, but the current system cannot be sustained. the wealthy have an advantage that no other income group enjoys as far as the accumulation....we cannot continue to reward the top .01% of the wealthy, with less of a percentage of taxes paid.

In a multi-country, global system, that is, unfortunately, an unavoidable issue.

There is always going to be mechanisms designed to encourage the things that make your country more 'favourable' in the global system. If you have enough wealth, it isn't very hard to ensure that you utilize those mechanisms to their maximum potential.

a reply to: crazyewok

Sorry to sound angry!

If you start with the OP and follow through the thread and think sarcasm, it may give you a different perspective.

"they will not go hungry!" is a sarcastic statement, as when the safety net is cut people do go hungry.

"life's not fair" another bit of sarcasm for those that like to point this out so often when the hardships of the poor are discussed.

The interesting part is that there is truth to those sarcasms, lol's

Honestly I have been having a lot of fun and have found many of the replies enlightening, others I just lol.

Have a great day!!!

originally posted by: tadaman
If you are talking about France or other places with high taxes you would be talking about life style.

A lifestyle that is affordable in a higher taxation environment...hmmm.

I will not work 20 hour days or 6 month stretches with no days off to live like a European. I will do it to live and retire like an American and for my children to be able to do so if they choose.... And that is both morally valid and socially acceptable, regardless of what you or others think. I have the natural freedom to get what I work /fight for.

Funny:
Most Europeans works less than most American.
Most Europeans enjoy more vacation time than most Americans.
Most Europeans enjoy a more secure retirement than most Americans.

But, I digress, rah-rah-rah, USA best!

a reply to: peck420

Exactly.

Most Europeans live in smaller homes with the exception of northern countries.
Most Europeans dont own more than one home or car.
Most Europeans dont travel the way Americans do or in the same luxury.
Most middle class Europeans live month to month as compared to middle class Americans who can save or invest like upper middle class Europeans.
Most Europeans dont own any property beyond their homes....if they own them at all....
Most Europeans rely on social assistance they pay into all their lives.

If it was such an affordable life style, then Europe wouldnt be ablaze with protests and near riots over austerity. I dont see that in the US.

I have actually lived in Europe. Have you?

The US is not the best. Who said that? Not me. We dont have to be "the best". It is what it is. We work like pigs to live like kings.

We dont work 8 hour days....we dont stop to SIP coffee in a nice posh place for lunch either for an hour everyday.
We dont get weekends off.
We dont get yearly month long vacations.

We also retire and live EXACTLY the way we used to if not better.
We can retire younger because we choose when that is instead of the state setting an age that is constantly pushed back.
We afford more since we work and produce more.
We can get out of debt easier than a European.

These are all things WE CHOOSE to do. No one is putting a gun to our head. Some Americans live like Europeans....they also expect everyone else to work like Americans for that to be possible.

ECT.

But I digress...

rah-rah-rah-, Everything sucks unless I have what you worked for.

a reply to: AlaskanDad

The problem with taxing the rich, is that they are a very small segment of the population, like less than 5 percent. So even if you tax them at this rate, the total revenues won't be that high. We would be better off trying to come up with ways of putting more currently unemployed people to work so their cumulative taxable income would generate more revenue. We are economically depressed because we are largely a service economy right now, and those jobs dont pay well, as a result people have drastically lowered spending power, and as a result a lot less money is finding its way into the economy. Instead of taxing the one percent, create incentives for them to do domestic investment that will create jobs, instead of letting their vast fortunes sit in the bank. One thing about the rich, is that they are always looking for ways to get richer, so if we create incentives for them to spend their money creating jobs, and get richer in the process, thats a better way to improve the situation.

It's just a rediculous non-sensical statement, the truth is the rich pay little or no tax at all for practically anything. They have fancy lawyers and accountants that find every loophole there is. 98 of the ftse 100 pays no tax... Nada...

Now you? You who thinks they pay 20% or whatever it may be pays much much closer to 90 if not 90% lmao (not you as in the op, just those that think they pay 20% or there abouts.)

All they did was split the taxes up into different departments and it made most clueless or just bamboozled. Anyway TAX = THEFT any way you want to spin it! You know the fairest system of all? TAX (steal) off no-one!

I bet you the world would be a much happier place...

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Iamschist
I'm a 10%er. Ten percent across the board, no deductions, no exceptions. The rich would of course contribute more, due to the huge amount they have in assets. The more you profit, the more you pay, but never more than 10%. Seems fair and equatable to me and would increase tax revenue considerably.

agreed this is best. That way you still can have the American dream of becoming rich and you won't get it all taken away from you. What's the point of trying to get ahead in life if you get it all taxed from you? 10% for everyone...every corporation...everything. Then we start gutting the government. Starting with all of our secret spy agencies and alphabet agencies..and our military bases in foreign lands. Now we're getting somewhere! Oh.. but that makes too much sense! LOL

Since when is the, so-called, 'American Dream' about becoming rich. It was about opportunity and the dream of owning your own modest home, a good 'tax paid' education for your children so that they could do the same. The dream you are taking about is the 'nightmare' we are living in.

Not really...I mean rich means a lot of things. I would love to have a nice big house with some acreage. a boat, new cars and trucks and a couple of motorcycles and all debt paid off....Thats not too much to ask, and I'm not talking monster trucks or a Lamborghini --insurance for all of it. enough money to send the kids to college if they want to go...another business and a non profit to do some good in the world.

But...they way I'm taxed now...they take half my paychecks...then I pay sales tax...property taxes...I'm taxed to death!

originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

imho The 10% flat tax is the millionaires dream, fair really?

Or just another attempt to lower their taxes?

Lifes not fair so-

Tax the rich, they will not go hungry!

I'm referring to fairness. It is not fair, regardless of the situation to tax you at 20% and tax me at 10%. A percentage is always fair.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

I'm referring to fairness. It is not fair, regardless of the situation to tax you at 20% and tax me at 10%. A percentage is always fair.

AlaskanDad

"life's not fair" another bit of sarcasm for those that like to point this out so often when the hardships of the poor are discussed.

Lifes not fair so-

Tax the rich, they will not go hungry!

originally posted by: tadaman

What a laughable post.

Not only are you full of it with Europe, you fail to even understand how much you have gained from the taxation of others.

Which makes everything you claim all the more laughable.

How would you make your 'oh so valuable earnings' without a road to get to work? How about the power to power it?

How about the food you eat? Take away the subsidized provided by tax dollars, and you wouldn't have a single grain of it.

Even better, what exactly would you make? There would be no money.

I love you Tadaman, not only do you epitomize A.S.S, you are always willing to TAKE when it benefits YOU, never willing to GIVE when it benefits OTHERS.

Man, I needed a good laugh today!

a reply to: peck420

You are taking a pretty ludicrous stance as well.

As if I dont pay taxes. As if I only eat subsidized CORN.

What are you even talking about? The "I didnt build that" crap?

LOL

We sure as hell did build that. The government doesnt make things happen without the people producing wealth first. We built the roads and infrastructure, not nature or act of God. We didnt tax Canada. The peoples taxes from our wealth made this country. That means WE built it. Also a road isnt my business I made from the ground up. No one helped me with that like no one helped any small business. I am not Monsato.

My family and I pay taxes in two continents sir. I think I have earned the right to use public roads...as if I needed a right to it all. Do you?
I also pay my utilities....so I dont know how you get your electricity. You are now attributing civilization to taxes. LOL

You must work for the government. Big lol.

You think MONEY was invented by TAXES? Thats laughable. You have no concept of history. Thats why you have no concept of the world.

Answer me.

Have you lived in Europe?

Also, please contest what I say. OR dont talk about it at all. WHAT is laughable?

I would settle for you just answering my last question you ignored from my last post while professing knowledge and insight enough to school me about Europe or the US.

Have you lived in Europe? EVEN BEEN THERE? I have and have worked and owned a business in Europe as well as in the US. Tell me where you get your vast understanding I am lacking.

EDIT TO ADD:
I have probably given more in my short life than you ever will in yours. I know where I stand with humanity. Do you? I know I owe nothing. I doubt you can say the same.

originally posted by: Meee32
It's just a rediculous non-sensical statement, the truth is the rich pay little or no tax at all for practically anything. They have fancy lawyers and accountants that find every loophole there is. 98 of the ftse 100 pays no tax... Nada...

I think the numbers do not support this conclusion:

taxfoundation.org...

originally posted by: AlaskanDad

First do you have anything to back your claim that "Well there still like 80% of America that work for the small business owner."?
While you say you will not shop at walmart, yet you oppose the Waltons paying a 90% tax? interesting

Here lies the difference between you and me. You can't post without name dropping some billionaire or even 100 millionaire. Where, what you suggest WILL effect many more people who make much less using one smart-ass comment that "they will not starve".

These super rich that you seem to have so much focus on might as well live on Mars to me. I do not care what they do, or how much they make, just do not care, but what you suggest would have a profound effect on a lot of people busting their butts to get ahead, while providing a good number of jobs for many.

You assume that, lets say 2 million is way too much money, and that a tax payment of 1.5 million is well within reasonable demands for tax on any person who just might get ahead and make that much since they would not starve. The bottom line is it seems you think that kind of income comes easy and a person would be willing to even put the effort in the first place to put 75% into tax.

I do not think that would be the case and that guy who makes 2 million and runs a 20 man shop that SUPPORTS 20 families would just close his doors and do something differently. Its called the path of least resistance and we see this with subsistence living where people are willing to live a lessor lifestyle with the least resistance path, well this doesn't change even for the rich. They will just take a difference path of least resistance, even if that path is to do nothing at all.

I think I get what your getting at, and despite the fact that you have been rather obnoxious about it, not that it bothers me, I think you are right.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I get from all this is that capitalism in general, and freemarket capitalism in particular, has a certain "eff everyone else" aspect to it and, all things being fair, that should include the rich.

Be it through the government or a lynch mob, the hidden hand does what it does.

originally posted by: tadaman


Most Europeans live in smaller homes with the exception of northern countries.
Most Europeans dont own more than one home or car.
Most Europeans dont travel the way Americans do or in the same luxury.
Most middle class Europeans live month to month as compared to middle class Americans who can save or invest like upper middle class Europeans.
Most Europeans dont own any property beyond their homes....if they own them at all....
Most Europeans rely on social assistance they pay into all their lives.

I find this list mostly condescending BS!

Im in the UK I have also been to the USA and most Brits live exactly the same as most Americans

originally posted by: tadaman

If it was such an affordable life style, then Europe wouldnt be ablaze with protests and near riots over austerity.

You do know Europe is not one single country right?

Yeas the southern and eastern ones are like that

But not all Eu country are like that.

originally posted by: tadaman
I dont see that in the US.

I suggest turning the bloody news on! One of you major city's is ablaze right this minute!

But then again I am smart enough to know that is ONE state and each state is different with different standards of living.

originally posted by: tadaman
I have actually lived in Europe. Have you?

When the 1930's ?

I live in the UK and say your talking BS.

Stop this RAR RAR Im American I want to live like a American BS Your better than that.

a reply to: crazyewok

Ewok, while the UK is in Europe, you cant possibly compare the UK to the rest of Europe. You are not even in the EU and have never identified with Europe. Lets not start now.

I already said there were exceptions to what I say in the northern countries.

Yes I realize that Europe is not a single country. Dont get aggressive over nothing.

Are you really going to insist that Europeans who pride themselves on not living with excesses like Americans now all own multiple homes, multiple cars and live a life style of excess?

Really?

Europe has 2-3 story homes with front and back yards and a 1-2 car garage as a norm? really?

When I lived in Europe we had protests and near riots DAILY, all over the country where I lived. Since I worked down the street from our state´s capital´s city hall I saw this daily and in person. The news had nothing but protests, marches and confrontations and cops beating protesters every night. You may not see it in the UK, since you guys are doing better than most of Europe, yet another reason why I am not talking about the UK and why you are not like Europe.

Maybe you dont know the state that Europe is in. I dont know. I will not pretend that everything is peachy. They are not doing as well as the UK, with the exception of France and Germany who managed to loan the most money and now can keep austerity measures at bay through interest collected....which repays their own debt.

As far as the "Rah rah rah", well that was a rebuttal to the condescending remark made stereotyping Americans as ignorant nationalistic morons who wave flags and cry over our anthem.

I do want to live in the US, its my home. I am not better than my home. I am not saying Europe is Romania, I am saying it is Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece, and the rest.

Have a good one ewok.