Russia demands guarantees over Ukraine from NATO

a reply to: SLAYER69

Beware the schoolbully - bearing a pocketknife.

The west should be wary of pushing this man into a corner ...

Jussssst sayin !

originally posted by: Timely
a reply to: SLAYER69

Beware the schoolbully - bearing a pocketknife.

Appeasement

The west should be wary of pushing this man into a corner ...

Since when is dealing with the above mentioned knife wielding bully considered "Pushing into a corner"

Just curious

a reply to: paraphi

Totally disagree with you. My worldview is not so narrow.

Glad mine is as narrow as to just stick to the facts and not make stuff up.

But Ukrainians' protests are more likely the product of their long-simmering discontent with their own country's leadership than their desire to be closer to Europe. Ukrainians are not enamored with Europe. A weak 37% approve of the EU's leadership.

Source

a reply to: SLAYER69

Dissesd at the G20 - world sanctions - supposedly taking effect etc.

Now looking for deals ? !

Sounds like a last scramble for validation ...

How sharp is the knife ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Yet the recent parliamentary elections returned parties who want to lean Westwards. How this eventually pans out is up to Ukraine to decide and not Russia. That's the point.

First things first. Ukraine needs to settle down and resolve some of the deep-rooted issues, including their relationship with Russia, as well as addressing some of the problems with e.g. corruption in public office. Russia needs to understand that the world has moved on and they cannot just bully their neighbours as they see fit.

If Ukraine wanted to join the EU then it would take years to reform myriad institutions. However, reform they must and the public seem to have expressed an appetite for reform.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

The average Ukrainian lives in a country that is rife with corruption - almost as bad, or worse, than the levels of corruption in Russia. They want change. The last year has seen a realignment of what the majority want, expressed in the presidential and parliamentary elections.

First things first. Ukraine needs to settle down and resolve some of the deep-rooted issues, including their relationship with Russia, as well as addressing some of the problems with e.g. corruption in public office

A separate cable also released by Wikileaks makes it clear that the U.S. government was considered Poroshenko corrupt.

"Poroshenko was tainted by credible corruption allegations, but wielded significant influence within OU; Poroshenko's price had to be paid."

Source

So have they got it ?

NO !

So was I right or wrong when I said :

What Ukrainians want doesn`t matter...

So you don`t agree with facts because your worldview is not so narrow...?

a reply to: MrSpad

You are right about Russia not having much more to count on but when you look at their exports, which is almost entirely oil,

Netherlands (9.2%), China (8.1%), Germany (6.5%), Ukraine (5.7%), and Belarus (5.4%)....those are the top 5 importers of Russia's products. This is going to not only hurt Russia but everyone on that list except China. So while China and Russia work out new ties..China gets a nice deal, Russia survives, and Europe, on paper, looks like it has some problems.

This doesn't just hurt Russia, it hurts many places. And I suppose if the whole shy away from the petrodollar keeps going then we could speculate that in 10 or 20 years the usa could have some problems. But hopefully by then more people are using alternative energy resources.

Colin Power often talked about "soft power" and the ability to basically push people around with everything other than force....and America can no longer do that...maybe to some smaller countries. Remember after september 11th and we were going to war for the 2nd time in Iraq and claimed we had a coalition of like 30 nations....and half those countries I had never even heard of. America doesn't have the support it once did...not even its citizens really care for it any more.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
So you don`t agree with facts because your worldview is not so narrow...?

? I'll always agree with facts. However, I also take the view that if a "fact" is not supported by evidence then it's just another snippet of information. The difficulty is that some people mix facts with fiction and end up thinking fiction is fact, sometimes in the face of a cliff of evidence. A bit like the flat-earthers.

I have already stated what everyone knows - in that Ukraine - like Russia - is a very corrupt nation. Corruption has been widely identified as one of the reasons the average Ukrainian wants a change.

We are where we are. The evidence is that the recent elections have returned a western leaning government and that the association with Russia is not healthy.

Regards

How can it be in Russia's interest to have NATO take over Ukraine and station US 'advisors' there? Total nonsense from a Russian point of view and I don't blam e Putin for not allowing it.

Love to see how the Yanks would react to Russian 'advisors' taking over Mexico and Canada

originally posted by: WineWithIce5
a reply to: stirling

I guess Russia didn't learn from the past.

Deals made with Western Elite mean nothing. They will still look for ways to if not outright destroy you, then damage you over time.

Like Russia did to Ukraine by violating the Budapest memo?
Like Russia is attempting to do with former ssr's that have not yet joined NATO.

The soviet union collapsed.
Its economic policies failed.
Its government failed.

Putin is trying to bring back the soviet union so yes, Russia has not learned from history.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
How can it be in Russia's interest to have NATO take over Ukraine and station US 'advisors' there? Total nonsense from a Russian point of view and I don't blam e Putin for not allowing it.
Love to see how the Yanks would react to Russian 'advisors' taking over Mexico and Canada

It's got sod all to do with Russia. Russia already has NATO aligned countries bordering them, so they already tolerate "advisors" in close proximity. If, in the fullness of time, Ukraine apply to join NATO then that's their business. Putin should have no say.

I am sure that if Russia wanted to place advisors in counties bordering the US then why not. The fact they don't is more a testament to their limited global influence.

Regards

originally posted by: MrSpad
Just Putin feeling around for a way out of things. Looking for a way to cut a deal and save face at the same time. Russia is in bad shape and even if santions ended today with the Ruble worth nothing and Russias credit rating just above junk it will still be a hard road for Russia ahead. These oil prices are murder on Russia who really has not much more to count on.

Yep they will be paying China to use their oil at this rate lol. Just wait till Lockheed puts out that Fusion device in a couple years. Oil will be about 20 a barrel or less.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: MrSpad

You are right about Russia not having much more to count on but when you look at their exports, which is almost entirely oil,

Netherlands (9.2%), China (8.1%), Germany (6.5%), Ukraine (5.7%), and Belarus (5.4%)....those are the top 5 importers of Russia's products. This is going to not only hurt Russia but everyone on that list except China. So while China and Russia work out new ties..China gets a nice deal, Russia survives, and Europe, on paper, looks like it has some problems.

This doesn't just hurt Russia, it hurts many places. And I suppose if the whole shy away from the petrodollar keeps going then we could speculate that in 10 or 20 years the usa could have some problems. But hopefully by then more people are using alternative energy resources.

Colin Power often talked about "soft power" and the ability to basically push people around with everything other than force....and America can no longer do that...maybe to some smaller countries. Remember after september 11th and we were going to war for the 2nd time in Iraq and claimed we had a coalition of like 30 nations....and half those countries I had never even heard of. America doesn't have the support it once did...not even its citizens really care for it any more.

Everyone predicted China would own the USA. Well it looks like China does now own Russia. Russia is now subservient to China. Putin sold his soul to the Chinese. They are Russia's master.

originally posted by: Timely
a reply to: SLAYER69

Beware the schoolbully - bearing a pocketknife.

The west should be wary of pushing this man into a corner ...

Jussssst sayin !

Russians should be wary of Putin. His only chip to play is global nuclear war which will end us all.

originally posted by: Annunak1
Is this how threads are made nowadays? Just throw out a link and let everybody figure it out for themselves?

lazy basterds

Some of us actually have to work to survive at times......tough # I know.....but that's the way things go.....
aren't you learning anything yet?
..................................And MY parents were legally married how about yours ?

I think this is tantamount to some form of capitulation for the Russian Pres.
The first sign of a deal maybe about to be brokered so the money begins to flow again....No money flow....no progress for either side.....

originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: MrSpad
Just Putin feeling around for a way out of things. Looking for a way to cut a deal and save face at the same time. Russia is in bad shape and even if santions ended today with the Ruble worth nothing and Russias credit rating just above junk it will still be a hard road for Russia ahead. These oil prices are murder on Russia who really has not much more to count on.

Yep they will be paying China to use their oil at this rate lol. Just wait till Lockheed puts out that Fusion device in a couple years. Oil will be about 20 a barrel or less.

You know maybe that is why they suddenly announced the achievement. TO further improve prices of oil for the US and decrease saudi power as well as russian power.

What I think is really pissing off Putin is that the US can go do whatever it wants and Putin cannot even get away with policing it's borders and protecting it's military bases. Even so,being a cry baby and threatening the use of nukes and flying bombers around is what a spoiled little kid would do.

He is just not happy he is not one of the big kids on the block.

This is my opinion of course.. so don't worry if you disagree with me.

Do no deals with Putin.. cut off the head of the Ex soviet Chicken.

Crash his economy and then dictate terms to who ever replaces Putin.

He caused it .. so let him solve it.

Step down Putin and give Russia back to the Russian people.

a reply to: stirling

I say let them join NATO.

If I was a leader I would give the Ukraine a golden ticket with all sorts of credit incentives and trade deals in return for membership.

THEN I would offer other former soviet satellites the same thing if all worked out and use the Ukraine as a model for others to follow.

Then when Russia was down trodden financially after other measures taken and Putin was out of office I would offer Russia to join NATO. I would push for civilian groups in Russia to emerge and advocate the same.

It avoids war at least.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

But Ukrainians' protests are more likely the product of their long-simmering discontent with their own country's leadership than their desire to be closer to Europe. Ukrainians are not enamored with Europe. A weak 37% approve of the EU's leadership.

In Dec. of 2013 maybe, but as of March 2014 that changed...



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