The Masons

a reply to: KSigMason
Then please explain to me why that keeps happening to me and to the voices in my head..........??????????
We just go through it all day long and blame it on the freemasons... we call it the masonic experience.
Also.... it is called funny.... not apotheosis.




Btw: have a happy thanksgiving ::

Freemasons are under oath to LIE to the profane (un-initiated) when questioned about the Order, so you cannot trust anything they say. Here is the truth about Freemasonry:

Freemasonry is a secret society with two portions, an outer portion which consists of patriotic, charitable, good-hearted men who are ignorant of the real beliefs and goals of the Order they joined. The inner portion consists of highly degreed adepts that know the true esoteric meanings of the rituals, oaths, beliefs and goals. As Albert Pike (33rd) said in Morals and Dogma, the adepts purposely lie to the members at the lower degrees in order to use them as a consensus of opinion for the public, so that the order appears charitable, religious and good-willed.

The oaths freemason's take are vile, digusting and in some cases, illegal. The consequences for breaking the oaths are also terrible. Take the 7th degree (Royal Arch) for example, where the oath requires that freemasons protect, shelter and give aid to their fellow brothers, even if they have commit MURDER OR TREASON. That is just one example. As the member goes up the latter of degrees, the promises get more demanding/restricting and the consequences get worse. Do NOT let a mason tell you otherwise.

Once the member reaches the highest degrees, he learns the true beliefs of the Order. The true belief of freemasonry is secular humanism. They do not believe in Lucifer, God or Satan. They believe that through the use of our intelligence, man can perfect himself and become a god himself. They are gnostics, they worship MAN and the INTELLECT OF MAN. That is what the fire, sun, eye of horus, obelisk, light all represent. The intelligence of man, and the apotheosis of man becoming god once he has perfected himself. What did Lucifer tell Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden? If thou shalt eat of the fruit of this tree, thou shalt surely not die, but shall become as GOD.

The Illuminati is simply the collective body of adepts at the highest degrees of EVERY secret society. That's right. Every single secret society, whether it be the Skull & Bones (Brotherhood of Death) Roscicrusians, Freemasonry, Knights of Malta/Templar, are ALL EXACTLY THE SAME ORDER AT THE HIGHEST DEGREES.

Their goals are as follows:

Destroy all existing religion, especially Christianity, and establish a secular humanist new age religion

Destroy all existing governments, establish a marxist-socialist world governing body ruled by a "Council of Elders".

Discredit and destroy the family unit. The State will become the parents and will raise and teach the children from birth.

And shackle the masses of "profane" to a communitarian system of slavery.

I've done extensive research on Freemasonry. I've read hundreds of books written by highly adept masons, from past and present. I've studied the oaths, rituals and every piece of literature I could get my hands on from masonic temples/lodges and other places.

You freemasons claim that your Order is not a religion, yet your own Brothers, past and present, have stated otherwise!

"Freemasonry, in its broadest and most comprehensive sense, is a system of morality and social ethics, a primitive religion, and a philosophy of life ... [Henry Wilson Coil (33°), A Comprehensive View of Freemasonry, p. 234]

"Freemasonry may rightfully claim to be called a religious institution" [Albert Mackey (33°)Vol. II, p. 847]

"Masonry, like all other religions, all the mysteries, Hermericism and alchemy conceals its secrets from all but the adepts and sages, or the elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve to be misled..." [Albert Pike (33°) Morals and Dogma 104,105 & 819]

And these are just a few quotes, there are hundreds upon hundreds that prove Freemasonry is, in and of itself, a religion. Why do you masons lie so much? Oh that's right, because you're under oath to lie to the profane when questioned about the Order.

a reply to: KSigMason

a reply to: syroth17

As a member of the Knights Templar and having drank wine from a skull, I will say you are 100% correct in your thpughts.

My "lesser" brothers have no idea...

RAAAARRR!

That was sarcasm BTW!

Second line...

a reply to: syroth17

Using a little logic here, our secrets are so secret that only a mason may know them. Yet, here you are, claiming to know them.
And you said all masons will lie. So it's my belief that you are a mason, but not a nice, good, (run of the mill charity) type masons, but an evil, high ranking, blood drinking, Lucifer worshiping mason.

Don't even try to deny it. You would be lying. Just as you said all masons do.

I didn't spit on the cross. Apparently, you did.

BE GONE SATAN!!!!!!

Pay no attention to network dude, he's just upset that we made him do the dishes after our last feast, while the rest of us played pool.

a reply to: KawRider9

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't mind doing the dishes, it's cleaning the blood off the altar that upsets me.
If you folks could use your masonic ax and mace (the working tools of a 34th degree sooper secret mason) a bit better (and cleaner) it wouldn't take me all damn night.

If there is nothing to hide, then please humor me for a moment. I would like you to quote me some of the oaths that you take, particularly the oaths after the 3rd degree. But don't worry, if you refuse to quote them for us I would be happy to do so, in order to shed some light upon your Order. a reply to: network dude

Instead of providing us with factual evidence that the Order of the Knights Templar is benevolent, you resort to posting nonsense in order to discredit me and the information I have provided in previous comments. Perhaps you are at such a low degree, that you have not yet been "enlightened" by your fellow Brothers. What degree do you hold in the sect of the Knights Templar? a reply to: KawRider9

a reply to: syroth17

I'm sure you know this( through your research) but the York rite does not number their degrees. A Sir Knight is equivlent to a 32 degree Mason in the Scottish rite.

If you must know and want to do some more "research", I belong to

Peoria chapter No. 7 R.A.M.
Peoria chapter No. 11 C.M.
Peoria commandery No. 3 K.T.

a reply to: syroth17

There are no oaths in the Scottish Rite (4th-32nd degree), they are morality plays the candidate either watches or particpates in.

Guess all the books you read failed to mention this....

a reply to: syroth17

Well, since you already know where to find them, It would be pointless for me to post them.

And if all you look at is the penalties, you might thing we are a gruesome bunch. But if you are intelligent enough to UNDERSTAND the whole thing, you find that all our penalties are symbolic and you are told to attribute those horrible things to how your coincidence should feel if you revealed the secrets unlawfully. But go ahead and explain masonry to me. It makes me laugh when someone who isn't a mason tells me all about the craft I belong to.

a reply to: syroth17
A facepalm would not do this justice.

1) We are not under any oath to lie...to anyone.

2) If we were really a "secret society" you wouldn't know where we meet, when we meet, who any of our members were, and our rituals couldn't be found in a library or online.

3) There is no "inner order" and "outer order" that some know about and others don't...yet anti-Masons are somehow in the loop....doesn't seem to follow any logic, but they [anti-Masons] seem okay with it....hmmmmmmm. You are mistaken on the Pike quote, but then again, you're probably just regurgitating information from someone else's site.

4) There's nothing illegal about Freemasonry and you are clearly speaking about a subject you know nothing about. Nowhere in the Royal Arch degree do we say that we can aid someone hide from the law; nowhere are we allowed to violate the laws of the land.

5) Our oaths, obligations, vows, and so forth are about fidelity or keeping ones word.

6) Highest degrees? What ones do you think these are? I've gone through 60+ initiations and I've seen nothing that you accuse us of. We are not atheists...in fact, that is a direct violation of the very basic requirements to join Freemasonry. We do not worship man nor that we can become as god (apotheosis). We teach that man should grow and better himself. Nowhere do we dictate the matters of faith.

7) Freemasonry takes no part in your petty accusations.

a reply to: syroth17
It is very clear that you have not done "extensive research on Freemasonry." Hundreds of books? Nice exaggeration. If you've studied the oaths and rituals, then you have clearly lied in your previous post.

Freemasonry doesn't meet the basic requirements to be considered a religion. Personal opinion, even being a 33rd, is not official and organizational opinion. Pike, if you've read M&D, also states that Freemasonry is NOT a religion:

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it.

It is very clear that your research consists of going to some anti-Masonic site and repeating their mantra.

Nowhere in our oaths, obligations, or vows (variation in terms throughout Freemasonry) do we say that we can or told to lie to non-Masons.

Quit while you're behind, you'll only continue to embarrass yourself.

a reply to: syroth17
Meeting in private doesn't mean we have something to hide. Last I checked I didn't need to justify the practice of my God given rights.

I promised not to talk about certain things such as the obligation and I will stick to my word. Not because I have anything to hide, but because I gave my word and my honor is on a higher priority than placating some random keyboard jockey on the internet who is clearly not looking for a civil discussion.

a reply to: syroth17
Well, I can't speak for KawRider, but I'm a Past Commander of my Commandery.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: syroth17
It is very clear that you have not done "extensive research on Freemasonry." Hundreds of books? Nice exaggeration.

My guess is hundreds of pages of Jack Chick comics.

Hi, I would like to take the opportunity of this thread to ask a few questions to the masons posting here.

First I want to point to the fact that I am at least a bit familiar with freemasonry and its history (read a few books, visited a few museums and lodges during open doors day).

Personally I consider Freemasonry as an initiation-focused organization, trying to teach its members about ethics, philosophy, spirituality and self-improvement through symbolism and rituals. As such I consider it globally beneficial for society (when it doesn't become a breeding ground for some kind of "corporatist" closed mindset which is unfortunately a natural evolution of many organizations) but not the only valid path to become a better and wiser person. Just one among many.



There is no denying that the western initiation tradition (freemasonry included) is heavily inspired and influenced by the ancient branches of occult teachings from all around the Mediterranean Sea (Jewish Kabbalah, Egyptian and Chaldean occultism, western magical traditions like Hermeticism, Theurgy etc...). This is usually not a problem for most people where I live (Europe) as we know our historical roots, their intertwined influences through religions, arts and cultures, so we don't view all that as something "Satanic" like the Church did during the dark ages (which are over today hopefully), but more like ancient traditions our modern societies are still influenced by.
As such, European masons have usually no problem admitting their connection to (and even interest in) these ancient occult traditions, especially since Catholic faith is prevalent and Catholics know the relationship between Christian faith and older traditions.

I also think it's not the same situation in the US since the Christian faith there is much more dominated by fundamentalist currents, and all the problems related to that (bigotry, superstition and a disconnection from the realities of modern societies). This also one of the reasons why most anti-masonic literature is mainly coming from the US today, and from Christians in particular (when not coming from fundamentalist Muslims).



My questions are thus the following:

What is the official position of the Masonic organizations in the US regarding their esoteric occult roots? Do they recognized them or try to distance themselves from it, fearing to be labelled as a satanic cult by fundamentalist Christians?

What is the personal relationship of most masons (in general, and yourself in particular) to these occult traditions and teachings? Indifference? Curiosity? Interest? Involvement? Are they seen as purely symbolic or to be used for practical purposes too?


I know the second question is personal, but in this day I believe we stopped burning witches and actually it's even quite popular to call yourself a pagan or a wiccan in the US. So I don't think there is any danger in telling anonymously on the web whether you once read Eliphas Levi or Aleister Crowley (or not)



Thanks in advance for any masons who will honestly answer my inquiries, it will I'm sure help me and others dispel a few misconceptions about who masons are and what they believe in!




PS: I have personally been initiated at least three times during my life, in different contexts and traditions (but never as a mason); as a kid, as student, and the most powerful as a young adult. I can thus understand and recognize the meaning and benefits of initiations when done right, and the reason why they were/are so important for societies all around the globe. As such I can only be glad that Masons in the US keep this tradition alive, especially in a country where the individual is glorified, often to an unhealthy extent.

a reply to: KSigMason

I'm no past commander, just a lowly "Sir Knight". I haven't even made it through all the chairs in the Blue lodge.

Made Sr. Deacon before work/life got in the way. I need to get more involved, I want the seat in the East!

I will say being Knighted was the coolest thing so far in my travels!

a reply to: JUhrman
Freemasonry is very much an initiatic order that expresses such things as you describe throughout the degrees.

Freemasonry is influenced by many things, and it varies with the variety of appendant/concordant orders.

I would agree that the Christians of America are much more puritanical and have forgotten (or just ignore) the history of their own faith; this isn't helped by fundamentalists and zealots.

What is the official position of the Masonic organizations in the US regarding their esoteric occult roots? Do they recognized them or try to distance themselves from it, fearing to be labelled as a satanic cult by fundamentalist Christians?

Really, our roots are unknown to us. We can trace ourselves back to the 16th and 17th century with some manuscripts dotting the historical landscape, but prior to that no one knows for sure the route Freemasonry took to become what it is today.

The accusation of Satanism is foolish and the fraternity does state that such a charge is false.

What is the personal relationship of most masons (in general, and yourself in particular) to these occult traditions and teachings? Indifference? Curiosity? Interest? Involvement? Are they seen as purely symbolic or to be used for practical purposes too?

I'm Christian, but a much more esoteric one, leaning towards Rosicrucianism. I have curiosity and interest in our origins, but in the last year my research has been slowed by my progression through college; this is also why my answers are shorter than I would like, but I have final exams to study for.

edit on 5-12-2014 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)