In Pursuit Of Genuine Spirituality

a reply to: TheJourney

If that is the case, then every spirituality must be unique to the one who speaks it, and this must be realized before it is projected onto others. In seeing one's own spirituality as unique, and valuable as one of a kind, it would also necessarily follow that other unique spiritualities are just as valuable and important.

I agree with the extent to which one is conscious of his own drives, the body, which seems to be very little. There is almost a politics between various drives, for instance between will and habit, thought and instinct, between desire and health, between what we are conscious of and what we aren't, and so forth. i wonder if uniting those faculties into one full being could be a spirituality worth pursuing.

Keep up the good writing, TheJourney.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: TheJourney

If that is the case, then every spirituality must be unique to the one who speaks it, and this must be realized before it is projected onto others. In seeing one's own spirituality as unique, and valuable as one of a kind, it would also necessarily follow that other unique spiritualities are just as valuable and important.

I agree with the extent to which one is conscious of his own drives, the body, which seems to be very little. There is almost a politics between various drives, for instance between will and habit, thought and instinct, between desire and health, between what we are conscious of and what we aren't, and so forth. i wonder if uniting those faculties into one full being could be a spirituality worth pursuing.

Keep up the good writing, TheJourney.

Each one of us possesses unique DNA that cannot be found from others. Can it be replicated? I wonder if the replication would be tainted.

a reply to: InTheLight

Perhaps. But in the same spirit, we do not share the same place in space and time. Each perspective, each spirituality, whatever that may be, is as unique as each body. I would argue they are one and the same but no one likes to hear that idea, not titilating enough I suppose.

I do not find that the idea of a spirituality for all can work, by virtue of the fact that there is not one body, not one set of eyes, and not one mind shared between another. What one seeks must differ. Spirituality, whatever that may be, is never impartial, never objective, never true. This is a brute fact, evidenced by observation. The very variety of spiritualities in the world shows that in each case, if she does not submit her thought to align with another's, she must build her own out of the peices of her own experience, rather than another's.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
What one seeks must differ. Spirituality, whatever that may be, is never impartial, never objective, never true. This is a brute fact, evidenced by observation. The very variety of spiritualities in the world shows that in each case, if she does not submit her thought to align with another's, she must build her own out of the peices of her own experience, rather than another's.

The 'individual' (the seeking energy) seeks some 'thing' that will relieve the feeling of lack. Because the 'individual' feels separate from all that is it seeks fulfilment elsewhere - in time, which is in mind, because there is an idea that there is more than what there actually is.
It may appear that each 'individual' is seeking some 'thing' different but the 'individual' is seeking wholeness, it seeks to be fulfilled and not to feel lack. Really it seeks it's own absence. If the seeking energy drops away one would be fulfilled by what is already here (the present) - if one is full of the present, one does not exist in time, so the person in time disappears.
If one is lost in the present experience then there is just experience happening.

If one is moving around in space and time (in the mind, in thoughts, in stories made of words - in imagination) then the person in time appears to be real. BUT....only experience is real.

When it is discovered that life is made of experience and not of things the spirit world has been realized. Prior to the discovery of experience one seems to live in a material world consisting of separate things.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Wtf is happening, I agree again with you?

Seriously: spirituality is no way to describe reality, it belongs to the realm of the "psyche" and that always contains some parts of phantasy. What I imagine will never be the exact same thiing than what someone else is dreaming of. Therefore there never was and never will be one theology, philosophy that suits a person during his/her entire lifetime. We pick and choose always depending on our current "real" circumstances.

a reply to: Peeple
Would you say that life is made of things?
Or, on reflection realize that life is made of experience?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Sorry I don't get your question.
Reality is made of things, The floor I am walking on is a "thing".
My personality is a result of experiences, but no thing, so... Where are you trying to go with that?

a reply to: Peeple
When it is discovered that life is made of experience and not of things the spirit world has been realized. Prior to the discovery of experience one seems to live in a material world consisting of separate things.

'Things' only exist if there is time and space and the mind IS time and space but mind (thought, imagination) can only ever appear presently.

Where is time now?
Time (past/future) can only be imagined now.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

No. Time is a coordinate system. There is no experience without time. The mind is the only thing capable of time-travelling, remembering and imagining.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain

No. Time is a coordinate system. There is no experience without time. The mind is the only thing capable of time-travelling, remembering and imagining.

Time is a construct, an idea, a concept.
Time is imagined presently.

Nothing ever escapes presence - there is nothing other.
Is presence consisting of things if there is only the one?

The many appear in the one as the one.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Time is not imagined. It's very real, a construct maybe, but to measure the development of things. No-thing escapes presence, but like I said imagination does.

"The many appear in the one as the one"? That's not even a sentence. And kind of supports me saying we use and need coordinate systems to define reality

originally posted by: Peeple
No-thing escapes presence, but like I said imagination does.

Where and when does thinking happen?
Stories told about other times can only appear presently.

"The many appear in the one as the one"? That's not even a sentence.

In you, stories about other appear.

Where does the appearance of this (writing) appear?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Time is not imagined. It's very real, a construct maybe, but to measure the development of things.

What particular 'thing' is developing?
Energy is moving, that is all.

You may think that you are a 'particular thing' that needs time to develop - but what are you now? Do you think that you are incomplete and that somewhere in the future you will become complete?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The topic is, in pursuit of genuine spirituality, but it feels like you try to missionarise me into thinking exactly like you. I can't. You just seem to look for a way to sound smart. But you don't. First step, would be accepting there is no one truth that suits everybody, you seem to have somehow not even made that step, on your pursuit.

I was refering to time as coordinate system to measure the process of your moving energy, for example.
I am a thing, just as you are, I am bones and blood, hair, horn, etc...

The pursuit of genuine spirituality, to close the circle: is the journey to become complete, isn't it?
Are you the one already there? Why do you sound so much like nothing then? Are you buddha, talking from Nirvana?

A stupid man's opinion of what a wise man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. There are two types of fools; those who believe what isn't true and those who refuse to believe what is true. The folly of both resides in the refusal to see the truth that is right before the eyes.

a reply to: TheJourney

I think we share a common path. I went to Catholic everything. Started in kindergarten all the way to my first year of college. Ended up getting into the traditional old school Catholic practices. I was always very focused on spirituality. I would always go to church functions as a kid, rosary prayer services ect.

The more I learned, the more I saw organized religion as an obstacle to overcome.

Eventually I tried everything ...wicca, Buddhism, esoteric practices, Kahbala, hell I even tried satanism.

It was all role play.

My ultimate truth I think is written in my signature.

There is no true spirituality if you learn it from that which others believe. You can SHARE spirituality but you can not teach it as a formalized subject like math. I sit here now waiting for my kid to get out of catechism class....That really says it all. I dont think even that much can be taught.

It is ALL self learned. It is all a truth inside us. It is all personal and exclusively between you and your source.

a reply to: tadaman

Catholic too, also tried some magic, some ahem, other stuff.

It is true it means sthg different to everybody. Enjoyed your post, nothing productive to add. "If two people agree, one is absolete?" Churchill allegedly said it and I misspelled.
Boah dude, just realised: Spelling...
Maybe I should drink less.

The truth is hidden in plain sight - in the plain act of seeing.

St. Francis of Assisi — 'What we are looking for is what is looking.'

With no thing to become, no thing has being,
With no thing to observe, no thing has seeing,
With no thing to do, no thing is doing,
With no thing to learn, no thing is knowing.

a reply to: TheJourney

Hello TheJourney

I can relate friend.

I also started in a strict fundamentalist religion, not by choice... it eventually turned me off to spiritual matters for a time after I decided it didn't make sense to me.

Then my hunger grew through my seeking by way of science and philosophy. I once again began asking the grander questions. Why are we here? Who are we? Is there purpose to this life? A curious tingling of something hiding behind the veil of our ordinary experience arose within me once more.

I turned to eastern thoughts... mixed with westerner's newer ideas to begin with. I too have had many experiences, that were shifts of perception for me, it was great, and it did affirm for me that there was some form of spirituality in life that I had touched lightly. I eventually found my practice.

I know of this 'limbo' that you feel, this detachment, this disillusionment. Concepts dry up, doubt moves in and suffocates belief, removing any sort of satisfaction found in prior powerful spiritual experiences. This is normalcy returning, dissatisfaction returning, it is inevitable for the human being. Inevitable, but not something we have to succumb to.

There are many paths to the great mountain, but tread wisely, as there are many hindrances hidden in no matter which way you choose.

Let me share with you what is known as the 5 spiritual faculties from buddhism:

1. Faith; confidence.
2. Energy; diligence in effort.
3. Mindfulness
4. Meditative absorption; concentration.
5. Wisdom; insight wisdom.

Let us begin with your desire, our hunger for a genuine spirituality. This is where one can begin most earnestly. It will take you a long way, as you have seen, but as any hunger can be momentarily satisfied by food, so can spiritual hunger be momentarily satisfied by dabbling in small meals of concepts and ideas of what makes up our 'spirituality.'

You see, if we look above, the first spiritual faculty is faith. There comes a time in all paths where doubt arises, where dissatisfaction arises, leading the mind to hunger for new ideas, new ways of feeding itself. It is ok to question things, it is necessary to gaining true insight on the nature of reality, but be wary of doubt. In all of the spiritual paths, it takes faith in your practice, faith in yourself. If one has faith, one can endure the hard times, when our questions are not yet answered, one can endure and keep at our practice to build momentum, to build a steady practice from which we can gain true knowledge, true peace. Slowly, as one becomes mature within their practice there will be moments where one will be affirmed, and confidence built. Use these moments to propel you forward... do not let up. No road is easy, and although we can come to moments of a completely assured mind, of bliss and joy and happiness in our spiritual way, it is surely to be followed by moments of questioning, of disconnection, of doubt. Investigate this, as it will allow you to see that all things are momentary, are transient, are passing.

But commit to one practice, as this will allow maturation within it. Adopt the concepts which are helpful in creating a life filled with more loving kindness, more compassion, leading to peace, leading to tranquility, leading to clarity, leading to release.

Using the second faculty of energy, of effort and commitment, we can stay with our practice, we can dig deeper. By using mindfulness as well, we can not only learn to understand concepts of the mind, and their letting go, their actual emptiness; we can also begin to more importantly turn our focused mindful energy and gaze into our heart. The center of the heart is genuine, and through its gates lies peace and understanding. With mindful practice, our gaze can turn concentrated, it can become like a sharp knife, cutting through our doubt through examination, and our discernment will grow. The heart is where you will find your genuine spirituality.

By fully using the first 4 spiritual faculties the fifth naturally arises. Sustained faith through our focused energy and commitment, coupled with our practice with mindfulness of ourselves, of others, of our connections, will help build the one pointed concentration needed to gain true insight into the principles governing life.

If we take a look, what one truly desires, even above a genuine spirituality, is satisfaction and peace of heart and mind. A dwelling of assured contentment by way of knowing through experience. In this manner, spirituality is the active force, the movement in ourselves which drives us to find that place.

You're right in saying that it is not separate from you, it is closer than close, but it must be uncovered. Certain things must be abandoned, there must be cultivation, and there must be knowledge gained before ultimate release.

Peace is not found in the mind, it is found at the center of the heart; but it is a long and arduous voyage into it. We have to contend with a lifetime of pain, a lifetime of disillusionment and confusion.

It is good to know of detachment, but I tell you out of my own experience, detachment can become of a form of aversion. What I have seen that works is an opening of the heart, an acceptance of all that is, an acceptance of self. It is a form of surrender; we fight everyday to move away from surrendering. There is a war in the mind that is ongoing. We must learn how to step back, away from it, how to surrender ourselves to all that is found within life. All of its pain, stresses, disappointments along with its joys and pleasures. We must learn to give up the war.

Using the discernment and wisdom that we gain through our practice, we can navigate the oceans of our heart, now open to all the experiences of life, carefully and thoughtfully, so as to continue growing wiser, continue cultivating peace.

Whichever practice you choose, stick with it, be mindful of its virtues and its hindrances. All paths have them. Cultivate your understanding and deepen your wisdom. Do not get attached to any one concept or idea, do not be fundamentalist, but also do not give into aversion of concepts, but investigate each one and see if it brings you inner peace, cultivates happiness, softens your heart and makes it strong in loving kindness. Concepts are used as stepping stools, it can be useful to have certain kinds of attachments on the path, until true insight is gained into the nature of reality, then one can truly be 'detached' but not in the way you speak of.

One uses things, but does not cling to things.
Concepts come and go, as does all phenomena in this world.
Stick with it, and you will find genuine spirituality, because you yourself have cultivated it.