Penalty For Uninsured Not Signing Up For Obamacare To More Than Triple

a reply to: tadaman

Do you own car insurance?

Edit: We are.

a reply to: raymundoko

firstly, "free"...i hate when people do that...

we all know it's not actually free...it is free of charge at the point of service.

and the 15% i think would be more affordable than current...because it would eliminate the medicare pay in plus insurance....because there would be no more insurance, at least not for the average citizen..

just one pay in, for the expanded medicare program.

of course, it'll never happen..and even if it did, we wouldn't be able to trust the government to NOT spend that money on other garbage that doesn't benefit us..

a reply to: Daedalus

Medicare is not included in that 15%. You could combine medicare with a single payer system, which is probably the end goal for democrats, but you can't eliminate it without combining that income into the income required for healthcare. 15% would be an increase from now, with or without the elimination of Medicare.

Your last part is the issue.

The government CANNOT be trusted to NOT spend that money. They "borrowed" from SS, Medicare and Medicaid even though the need to do so was not there. The UK and Canada do the same thing.

Having it run by the private sector is the best option, as a competitive market reduces prices and provides better medical care. The USA consistently has the highest ratings for medical care. Yes, we also have bad ratings for the cost, but that is what the ACA is trying to address.

a reply to: raymundoko

I do but its not directly in my name.

I have very little in my name. My family learned our lesson during the Spanish civil war when hordes of communists came to rape and steal. We do things legally,we just arent innocent. What we have, we earned and made. I would rather burn it than give to criminals so they have more strength to take more from others. Peace or scorched earth.

We are? No. I think not.

I may be or you may be but there is no WE. Not with what I am saying.

Spite and doing things on principal are also founded in emotion. IMO they are more powerful than any moral argument playing heart strings.

a reply to: tadaman

Yet you abide by the law, even if you don't have it directly in your name...

I get it, nobody should be forced to purchase anything, and that is exactly why the penalty was fought against. The ACA prevents insurers from denying coverage due to pre-existing conditions. For that to work, nearly everyone in the US would have to pay into the insurance funds.

It is basically the same as having to have "uninsured motorist" insurance in California. If everyone had car insurance in Cali, nobody would have to pay that extra insurance cost.

a reply to: raymundoko

I get what you are saying, but it is different.

car insurance is mainly for THE OTHER person whom I may injure or damage the property of.

Health insurance is for ME. I shouldnt have to get it if I have a death wish, feel that medical treatment is against gods wishes or if I just hate everyone and wish to see them fend for themselves.

It is a product that I dont want. I would rather spend the money eating right, resting where I can and enjoying life. IMO that makes me live longer, better and most importantly HEALTHIER.

I dont give a damn if people have the same priorities. They are free to them like I am to mine.

I didnt even have health insurance before. I NEVER needed it. I live healthy. Its wrong to make me pay for the poor choices of others. I dont care if we all would pay less if we all would join up. I dont want to pay at all for health insurance, and that is PERFECTLY moral, fine and correct for me to say.

IF I get health insurance like a rational adult would with a family, I would like to do so based on MY needs, not a society I dont get to control as far as their health choices.

EDIT TO ADD:
What I am going to do is pay like I have always in the US for minor things and if I get something serious I will go to Europe where I have dual citizenship and already pay into that system through taxes there.

If we had taken a model from another country like France, the UK or anywhere that actually worked I would be all for it.

This is a power grab and an insurance bail out. Its a RETARDED model and I refuse to validate it. Its the WORST type of public health care system. Its not even a public health care system. Its monopoly building. If I was a politician I would go after it under the old anti trust laws.

a reply to: tadaman

France taxes everyone at nearly 50%...you'd rather pay a ton of taxes than a fraction of that for insurance?

a reply to: raymundoko
France also gives ALLOT more for their taxes.

The US doesnt even have mandatory paid maternity leave or even paid vacations.

You cant have it both ways.

We dont get dick for our taxes compared to the rest of the world. The US government has some balls to act like they can do like other countries when they treat us the worst in the world as far as services for our taxes.

I would gladly pay more taxes if we lived like Europeans. We dont and thats fine, but dont think for a second that we dont know the difference on the receiving end.

I am not against socialist ideals. Some are great. This is not that. This is monopoly building under the guise of socialist morality.

I refuse.

a reply to: raymundoko

the first bit made no sense....i'm thinking you may have misunderstood what i was trying to say...

anyway, SS, medicare, and medicaid don't actually have their own independent funding pools....they're supposed to, but they're all drawn from the general operational pool...makes it a lot easier to rob us blind...

having it run by the private sector is as bad an option as having it run by the government...without proper safeguards in place, they'd just make it MORE expensive, because they could get away with it...kinda like what the insurance industry is doing now, because of the captive market they've been handed by the ACA, and it's individual mandate...

the ACA was never about lowering costs..

I signed up, what else was I going to do, pay $325/mo for nothing? It's a #ty plan, it covers nothing but major illness. But that's what I needed the most. I do feel safer. A hospital will treat me. If you get really sick, the cost can run into six figures, and believe me, the hospital does not want to get stuck with that. The premium for Obamacare or any insurance is mostly about taking care of really sick people. There are going to be some scofflaws howling about the penalty when it comes due. They will number in the millions. I resisted signing up for the first go-round, I'm perfectly healthy. But I know that in a few moments, something can happen, and you need hospital care. So I went with it this time. The Republicans will want to make changes, but any attempt to repeal Obamacare will land a Democrat in the White House in 2016. We got Obama because the Republicans ignored a crisis like it didn't exist. Don't forget your taxes pay for free healthcare for people who do no work (Medicaid). Besides a little unemployment pay, this is my first government benefit, and I've been shelling out for others all my life.

a reply to: Parthin

O,o

it's not a government benefit....it's the government telling you MUST allow a corporate entity to scalp you, or else they'll do it themselves...i don't want the insurance industry, OR the corporate-owned federal government reaching into my pocket...

originally posted by: raymundoko

I have supported the ACA since its inception

Actually, you haven't. You know how I know? Because the bill they forced through is not the bill Obama sold you when he was asking for your vote. The bill you voted for is nowhere to be found. The individual mandate was not in the bill you voted for. And more importantly, it was not in the bill that everyone else voted for when they gave this man enough votes to win the election.

Obama blatantly lied about the mandate and put it in the bill AFTER he was elected. Why? Because he knew people didn't want to be forced to buy insurance. Nobody voted for Obamacare. Nobody supported the mandate in any election.

The individual mandate is 100% decree. And it matters a lot because the mandate is the heart of the bill. Obamacare can't survive without it. He had to have known this and he deliberately lied about it.

as I remember, the guvnent will not collect the tax or fine or mandatory payment or whatever , outside of whatever ' tax return' you get. but hay,the guvnent wouldnt lie to us, would they?

It's a benefit in that the government pays part of it. Different interests influence the government, from Al Sharpton to Exxon/Mobil. Of course the Big Money usually has the upper hand. Yes, we're being forced to do something. I made the best choice I could. Medicare at least limits what the government will pay the health care scalpers. Obamacare just hands over the money. Obamacare is not going away, you can count on that. But the healthcare crisis is far from over and everyone knows it. a reply to: Daedalus

The big problem is that health care is NOT competitive. How many hospitals can you go to when you're sick? 1, 2 ? And they don't expect you to pay the whopping bills, the government or insurance will cover most of it. Compare the rate of inflation with the rise in health care costs for the past 15 years and then tell me the free market will take care of it. The free market only works when there are alternatives. What is your alternative to a life-saving operation at the closest hospital? a reply to: raymundoko

originally posted by: Parthin
The big problem is that health care is NOT competitive. How many hospitals can you go to when you're sick? 1, 2 ? And they don't expect you to pay the whopping bills, the government or insurance will cover most of it.

Good point. As long as people have insurance, no one cares how much it costs except the insurance companies. So they'll always be lurking around in the shadows doing god knows what to try and save money and increase profits. But the one thing that will never happen as long as insurance companies are in the picture is the hospital bills will never get cheaper. The insurance companies NEED the bills to be outrageous in order to induce people to do business with them.

So what will they do? They'll do everything they can to keep actual hospital bills sky high and in the meantime, they'll do everything they can to keep from ever having to pay them. Which means that they MUST find a way to coerce their customers into staying healthy. Which might sound good but that's not freedom.

a reply to: Parthin

there's only a "healthcare crisis", because of the greed of pharmaceutical corporations, medical device manufacturers, and the insurance industry. things are unnecessarily expensive. the prices aren't so high JUST because of people who can't afford to pay their bill...

also, yeah, if you can get a government subsidy, that's great....but that's not the norm. so no, it's not really a government benefit.