What's the point of I.Q tests?

What makes a person smart?

That's a question that is not easily answered. Unless you believe in I.Q tests- a broad series of questions that don't necessarily need a correct answer. Those who have a high I.Q aren't shy to share and compare their results, as if that three digit number is the ultimate determination of intelligence.



I don't believe that I.Q tests are an accurate representation of intelligence because it comes in many forms. Physicists have many years to employ their grey matter whereas formula 1 drivers have a matter of seconds, and some people are neither swift or slow witted but use their minds efficiently. But yet this standardized test is still used as the yardstick to measure intelligence even though it seems to be redundant.

How many jobs or universities require an intelligence quota for a position? I can't imagine a plumber saying to a job applicant “well your previous employer spoke highly of your skills, but sadly I can't hire anyone under 130 I.Q.” and I can't imagine Gordon Ramsay rejecting a world class chef because he wasn't MENSA material.



So what is the point of these tests? I'm not sure. Sometimes I think it appeals to the vanity of the clever-just like facebook appeals to the vanity of egotists. Having a high I.Q doesn't appear to open up new employment opportunities or a better social life since those aspects of life are determined by other factors.

So what do you think-can intelligence be summed up in numbers, or is their a better way to measure intelligence?

In the words of Homer Simpson:



S-M-R-T

funny i see this as i just took an iq test yesterday and scored much higher than i thought...i actually thought about it as i never scored high on my act in highschool but had straight a's college mostly. I think much comes down to motivation. As I got older I saw the importance of knowledge and started looking at questions and puzzles with more enthusiasm.

And sure you are right....im very creatively musically...and have a great imagination...probably my biggest strengths but there is not test for that that I know of.

Back to the act...I scored really really high in math and science but so low in reading and english that I barely beat the monkey...i just didnt care for that part...it was fun. So some iq tests have number sequences that I imagine some brilliant reader/writers would struggle on and thus appear to not have a high iq. It is definitely flawed.

Also it doesn't take into consideration environment.

I think IQ tests are ego strokers and a way for some to feel superior to others.

My dad used to always say that he would prefer to have more common sense than book sense and I didn't really understand that fully until I was grown. IMO he was right. I know people who are highly Intelligent but can not function in any situation where something went unexpectedly wrong or didn't happen exactly as "the book" taught them it would. Some lack the ability to go off script so to speak. Not all of them of course, but a lot.

In a perfect world we would all have an equal measuring of both common and book sense and some of us do. Each camp has their advantages and disadvantages.

I think it's natural for folks to want to be the best and scoring highly on an IQ test is somehow written validation of that to them.

Just another way for us all to categorize ourselves and put ourselves a little higher on the evolutionary ladder than others. It doesn't really benefit anyone but the one taking it.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

An IQ tests measures people ability to solves problems, it seems a lot of people don`t even know what it is, just saying.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

One persons intelligence is another persons ability to learn the intelligence. Some people are smarter at certain skills, subjects etc than others, and visa versa.

I feel, to have every human take the same test to determine their intelligence is a non intelligent way of doing it.

For example, I'm quite intelligent when it comes to farming, rearing cattle, arable etc however, I can not for the life of me answer many IQ questions that are broadcast on UK TV every year for the populace to determine their IQ.

It should not work like that.

I don't believe a NASA employee is more intelligent than me. No, he may have the intelligence to do his job.....as I do mine.

Yes, its a stupid test indeed. We are all equal in intelligence to some degree on certain subjects.

Spiro

originally posted by: Spiro
a reply to: Thecakeisalie

One persons intelligence is another persons ability to learn the intelligence. Some people are smarter at certain skills, subjects etc than others, and visa versa.

I feel, to have every human take the same test to determine their intelligence is a non intelligent way of doing it.

For example, I'm quite intelligent when it comes to farming, rearing cattle, arable etc however, I can not for the life of me answer many IQ questions that are broadcast on UK TV every year for the populace to determine their IQ.

It should not work like that.

I don't believe a NASA employee is more intelligent than me. No, he may have the intelligence to do his job.....as I do mine.

Yes, its a stupid test indeed. We are all equal in intelligence to some degree on certain subjects.

Spiro

What you said... ^^^^^^^^

A great analogy.

I think someone can be dumber than a bag of hammers when it comes to math (myself included), but be brilliant in any other amount of things. One may indeed be a genius at farming while another is a genius in neuroscience. Who's to judge which field of genius ranks higher than another?

Have you ever met someone with mental retardation, perhaps Down Syndrome? Do you think people who are afflicted by such are able to become rocket scientists or computer programmers? The answer would generally be no. The reason for this is because they have a much lower intelligence.
Let me ask another question that will make my point more obvious. Do you think there is a significant difference in intellectual ability between the average person and someone who is afflicted with mental retardation? Are you more intelligent than a person who is mentally retarded to the point that they need help tying their own shoes? Obviously, the answer is yes. In the same way, there is a significant difference in intellectual ability between someone with a genius-level IQ and someone of average intelligence. The idea that IQ, or intellectual ability, does not exist is idiotic.
What if you had such high intelligence that you could pick up a book about calculus, read through it, and automatically remember everything you read, thereby suddenly knowing calculus like the back of your hand, without any sort of studying or practice? Can you? Can I? Probably not. But some people can. I'd say this makes them more able than others.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Thank you. I was just about to quote what you said to say I agree lol

You hit the nail on the head, I believe, with regards to who's to judge which field of genius ranks higher than another. My son is autistic, pretty high on the scale. His " Intelligence " is with art, he is so artistic that it shows us parents that he does not need to be good a maths, English, science or whatever, he is superb at art and that's all that matters to us. Like yourself, I am awful at maths, so bad that my wife does our books because she is awesome at maths. She could not for the life of her milk 500 cattle, but I can.

Oh, my son is an awesome tractor driver, can strip and engine in 3 hours and draw every part whilst doing it. But, he's not classed as intelligent with regards to society and struggles to complete IQ tests......but he's very intelligent.

As we all are

Thanks again

Spiro

Measuring how well you are absorbing and conforming to the curriculum they pump every "student" full of.

The more studious the higher your "score". Those that 'fail' are the best people on the planet. They never "got it".

They refuse to be moldable, sellable or marketable.

@Kangaruex4Ewe

My dad used to always say that he would prefer to have more common sense than book sense and I didn't really understand that fully until I was grown. IMO he was right. I know people who are highly Intelligent but can not function in any situation where something went unexpectedly wrong or didn't happen exactly as "the book" taught them it would. Some lack the ability to go off script so to speak. Not all of them of course, but a lot.

Agreed. Common sense and intuition-that's what makes a clever person, not some test conducted under controlled conditions.

a reply to: Spiro

That's a really good point, and its been discussed a lot: Its generally understood that IQ tests are really useful for diagnosing learning disabilities, like retardation, and how much support people need. But the problem is that intelligence goes in different directions as it gets higher, so high IQ is less meaningful at high levels. This is a FACT. I remember taking MENSA tests and not making the cut, then I studied a whole bunch of statistics and discrete math - the maths used by test makers and evaluators - and all the sudden my evaluation on those and other intelligence tests went through the roof. However if I had studied any other field, my scores would not have grown. At high levels, intelligence tests reflect how much you think like the people that made the tests.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

IQ scores are like male genetalia. It's fun to compare numbers in the locker room, but it's what you DO with it that matters.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I agree. A high IQ is something you can impress the easily impressed with. But if you want to really impress me, find ways to improve everything you see. Be a leader by example. SHOW everyone that you are something special.

Flashing your IQ is like showing everyone your wallet on payday. I just don't care.

Here's the thing, though:

Wherever it has been studied, children with high scores on tests of intelligence tend to learn more of what is taught in school than their lower-scoring peers. (But) achieving good grades depends on many factors other than IQ, such as 'persistence, interest in school, and willingness to study'.

'For hiring employees without previous experience in the job the most valid predictor of future performance is general mental ability.' The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date.

While IQ is more strongly correlated with reasoning and less so with motor function, IQ-test scores predict performance ratings in all occupations.

While it has been suggested that 'in economic terms it appears that the IQ score measures something with decreasing marginal value. It is important to have enough of it, but having lots and lots does not buy you that much,' large scale longitudinal studies indicate an increase in IQ translates into an increase in performance at all levels of IQ; Charles Murray, coauthor of The Bell Curve, found that IQ has a substantial effect on income independently of family background.

Regardless of race, people with IQs between 70 and 90 have higher crime rates than people with IQs below or above this range, with the peak range being between 80 and 90. The 2009 Handbook of Crime Correlates stated that reviews have found that around eight IQ points, or 0.5 SD, separate criminals from the general population, especially for persistent serious offenders. It has been suggested that this simply reflects that 'only dumb ones get caught' but there is similarly a negative relation between IQ and self-reported offending. That children with conduct disorder have lower IQ than their peers 'strongly argues' for the theory.

Some hard-to-argue-with statistics there.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Speaking from experience, true levels of intelligence can't be detected on a IQ test.

Back in the 5th grade, I took a bunch of tests due to scoring extremely well on a test called the CME or Connecticut Mastery Exam. Writing an essay and answering questions with short paragraphs, I did below average. On the science portion I scored in the 90th percentile and on the math portion I scored in the 98th. This was out of around 40,000 or so students who took it.
So they gave me a bunch of tests to see what the best education path would be and the person who administered these tests explained it to me.

Standard IQ tests aren't for measuring how "smart" you are but rather your relative intelligence to other people who took the test.

I scored so high as to not be measurable on several of these tests and the person explained that this is also normal for people with above average intelligence. Being unable to fully express with writing what I was thinking, it would have seemed that I had the intelligence of a ten year old but in practical application I could and did attend college courses at an age where most of my peers were concerned with acne and boob size. This lead me to being too intellectually mature for my age and making and keeping friends was really hard. Being smart sucks sometimes I guess. I can't really relate to people who don't apply themselves to knowledge like I do.

So to answer your question, IQ tests are to see how much you conform to other people. Aberrations or people that score extremely high are dealt with by bogging them down with so much information and work that they can't use their intelligence for things other than what the "book" says.
I realized this and stopped any progression into being the youngest accepted applicant to UConn. I also stopped any goals of higher learning because I knew my energy would be better devoted to helping others.

I started using my advanced analytical reasoning to deduce that society was crumbling at it's seams and TPTB were doing everything they could to slow down the inevitable collapse. And it's been doing so since the 70s. I deduced this after attending Mensa meetings and attending lectures at Yale and a couple of other colleges. The people who are in charge of figuring out how to deal with the failing economy and the growing number of NEETs were extremely smart, yet utterly incapable of thinking outside the box.
And that's what we need in order to revitalize the global economy. An idea so crazy it might just work. Like freeing everyone but repeat violent offenders or white collar criminals and putting them to work repairing the failing transportation infrastructure and railroad networks. You get three boxed meals a day, a living allowance, and accommodations. It would be the greatest economic endeavor and revitalization the world has seen since the 1950s.

Yes I said Mensa. No I'm not a member anymore because I refuse to pay money to nincompoops and squares.
They were so vehemently anti drug and anti firearm that it was impossible to debate or talk with them about why those things were made up things by the government because of damage control. There was a guy I met who could build a working nuclear weapon with 3 months time, a few trips to a hardware store, and 10 thousand dollars that couldn't figure out how to maintain a healthy diet. Or a theoretical particle physicist that couldn't figure out how to talk to someone outside of psychics.

This being the internet you can accept that people with above average intelligence exist and frequent this site or you can stick your fingers in your ear and go blah blah blah, you're just making everything up. Do what you want but I've been trying to warn people since 2006 that we are in for a world of hurt but nobody wanted to accept it.
Now we are on the verge of an economic collapse due to poor spending habits and student debt.

But don't lose hope. It's always darkest before dawn.

You are confusing knowledge with intelligence.

Knowledge = facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education.

Intelligence = the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.

IQ = A measure of the ability to solve problems and understand concepts.

A person can have a high IQ, but little knowledge. They have the capacity for logic, abstract thought, problem solving and grasping new concepts. An IQ score would give an employer a good idea of an applicant's ability to learn a new skill quickly and efficiently.

Someone can have a lower IQ and be very knowledgeable on certain subjects. They just have to work harder at grasping something new and complex.

High IQ does not equal great knowledge. Nor is it a measure of knowledge. A person is only as smart as what they have learned. You have to feed the brain. Einstein would have just been some average Joe if all he did was read comics and watch reality TV. Low IQ does not equal stupidity. It simply means that person faces more of a struggle to gain knowledge.

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: Spiro

That's a really good point, and its been discussed a lot: Its generally understood that IQ tests are really useful for diagnosing learning disabilities, like retardation, and how much support people need. But the problem is that intelligence goes in different directions as it gets higher, so high IQ is less meaningful at high levels. This is a FACT. I remember taking MENSA tests and not making the cut, then I studied a whole bunch of statistics and discrete math - the maths used by test makers and evaluators - and all the sudden my evaluation on those and other intelligence tests went through the roof. However if I had studied any other field, my scores would not have grown. At high levels, intelligence tests reflect how much you think like the people that made the tests.

I couldn't agree with you more. Its all about learning the subject to which the examiner requests to pass the IQ test they set.

It amazes me that people here in the UK that take the National IQ test on TV each year actually believe it is a real test on intelligence. Yes, there are problem solving questions however that alone does not make people " IQ Intelligent ".

Like I've said before, each person is IQ Intelligent in their own right, others not. I choose to live by the thought that we are all equal, disabilities and all, that we share each others intelligence.

Thanks for replying, great post

Spiro

a reply to: 321equinox

That's a great way to put it across and you have taught me an alternative way of looking at it.

Great post and easy to now understand.

Thanks

Spiro

I use to give IQ tests to students. We tested at the end of 1st grade and then again at the end of 4th. IQ measures capacity not information/knowledge. I use to explain to parents that we were not looking for smartest, but desire to know each child's capacity to better teach to the whole. How much information needs to be given at one time that will ensure the average student will be successful.

Think of the brain as a bottle with an opening. Every opening has different sizes. Now take a pitcher of water and attempt to fill each bottle. The narrower the opening the more deliberate and steady one needs to be with the water as it is being poured. The wider the opening the easier it is to assure the water enters the bottle. But even a bottle with a wide opening can find itself out of reach of the water being poured if one isn't careful when they pour.

All this was just to say, parents need to understand they are being given a tool to help them understand the amount of help their children need to be successful students. I always found it interesting a students IQ usually dropped on the 4th grade test. We figured it was an age parents no longer prepped for that years courses and started pushing for the child to work more independently instead of keeping an active interest in helping with their child's progress.