Men- liberated female partners? Or reserved demoiselles?

It’s a rainy day, and I finally have a day off work, so I am lying around in sweats…..letting my mind play.

My husband had a dream last night, and we talked about it in the morning. It was thought provoking for me. In this dream, there was some sort of camera crew at home, and there were men there that were fawning all over me, some being quite bold in trying to seduce me (one of them was Charlie Hunnam in his Sons of Anarchy garb, who he knows I find delish).

I asked him, so what was your reaction/feelings about this? Were you jealous?

He said, well, yeah, but at the same time, you weren’t encouraging it, you weren’t showing any similar interest, so I felt safe with your loyalty.
I was just overwhelmed by how great it was to see you being so liberated! You were singing and talking on the microphone, being yourself with no restraint, and that was what was so charming to everyone, and I was so happy to see you just completely free!!


I found this interesting because it is something I hear/read about from many men- the fantasy of seeing their woman “liberated”. What does that mean?
He seems to refer to freedom from self inflicted bonds and self discipline, which limit our self expression.

Is this a French thing? Or do most men have a certain pull to this fantasy?


In my case, heck, I am Capricorn, and typical of the things commonly said of that sign (whether there is any validity to astrology or not; perhaps it is coincidence, I don’t know) But I like my self restraint, my focus on responsibility, duty, organization, ethical and moral principles. I guess they make me feel safe or something.

I think I find this a curious view of his because some part of me tends to assume (despite the evidence, as mentioned, that I have heard, observed or read) that men like to have their partner reserve her most passionate side only for his eyes, and remain…a bit closed to others. I mean, this could be read in terms of sexuality, of course, but I am not only referring to that. I mean all kinds of self expression – artistically, intellectually, emotionally.

I am just wondering about it, and would like to ask other men how they feel in regards to this? Does the idea of seeing your mate “liberated” please you?
-Or on the contrary, do you like the idea of her remaining somewhat reserved in public?
Do you sometimes feel that she exposes herself too much in public?

There is nothing important about this topic, it’s just banter for a rainy day, and I always like gaining a bit more comprehension of mind sets different from my own- and it is often the male perception that surprises me the most.

my lady is normally kinda reserved, it's a typical czech thing, women in public are a bit reserved and miles away from that in private.
But once she danced on a table in a pub to a song i requested (lowdown, by tom waits)
And seeing her without restrait, was amazing, even if it lasted less than the song, and i loved it, it was chaotic, it was unleashed, and it was for me.
There is just this incredible beauty to be seen when a woman does it right.

i guess the best way to put it is to quote Nietzsche:
"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star."
And when you see that start taking shape, yep, it's an amazing view.

a reply to: Bluesma

Hi Bluesma. Hope you and your guy are doing fine.

Hah! Give me Scarlett Johansson on a dawgy lead and I'll be very content (only kidding).

That is a fascinating dream your hubby had and it is so interesting to read of the dynamics analysis of your relationship that this experience provoked.

Personally, I hope for independence and freedom for women the world over. The kind of world where a woman can walk alone even at night and not have to fear predator males. That seems rather a long way off right now.

When I split up with a long time ex, not my wish you understand, the way she got me to see sense was telling me she felt trapped. There is no way I am going to be responsible for confining another human being to any of my dictates.

Yes, the strong and liberated free woman is much more healthy, desirable and attractive for me personally. Chained and under the thumb is not my style.

However, I see relationships as the business of the couple concerned. Both are painting a unique work of art (the relationship) that can be tailor made to suit their needs regardless of social norms. We live, here in the west, in a time of great freedom in terms of relationships and we can create unique and individual partnerships.

All the best now.

a reply to: Bluesma

I think it is deeply unwise for a man to have any particular pre-conceptions where women are concerned. Sometimes a gregarious outward appearance and behaviour pattern can be used to hide a terrified mind, other times a reserved outer shell can obscure a raging tumult, and this is as true for males as it is for females. Every human being walking the Earth is a patchwork, a collage of different psychopathologies, and only by knowing what lies beneath the outer skin, can a person ascertain whether or not a potential partner is suitable.

Further to that, reducing things down to whether a given gentleman prefers a lady who is "off the hook" or reserved and quiet in public is a vast over simplification in my view. I have had five relationships, and one ill advised dalliance which I only entered into because I thought it might go somewhere. It did not. The women with whom I have spent time, have all been very different to one another, and none the less each of them had something about them which I found staggeringly attractive.

Unfortunately, each of them revealed over time, that they also had various malignant tendancies, some for going to bed with other men, some for just being plain dangerous, others for psychological manipulation, control issues.

Some men have a "type" of woman that they go for. Some fellows choose women based on entirely physical attributes, others on a more emotional level, but I still maintain, despite my history, that by ignoring those who do not fit within a narrow set of parameters, a fellow is missing out on things. Sometimes it is nice to be dragged out of ones comfort zone after all! That said, dignity is important to me, and so is loyalty. So all in all, where a potential partner is concerned, from my perspective that is, if she is not liable to treat me poorly, not liable to cheat, to lie, then she could be a pole dancer, or a librarian, and I would not give a fig either way as long as those basics were in place.

a reply to: Bluesma

as long as a woman is friendly and preferably pretty, they are all attractive to a polyamorous man. but the moment they (males as well) become hostile or smart-arsed they start the countdown to f-off. one gf now is a whor* but very attractive and loving personality. despite the repulsive thought of what she was doing 10mins before, and what she will be doing 10mins after, i can tight focus in the window of time together and meet her inner exciting soul. we are good friends even lovers because she knows i understand the terrible start she had in life, and how she can hardly get out of it now. life is cruel for millions on earth. kaman.

a reply to: TrueBrit

yes i like your thoughtful analysis. but the idea of ever finding just "one" fully adequate partner is something of a dream in the real world. so its best to have half a dozen wives, then concentrate on keeping them apart. what the eye doesnt see the heart doesnt fret about is strangely true. one wife had 3 kids then turned into a frigid rattlesnake. so i had to find a solution

originally posted by: lonesomerimbaud


Hah! Give me Scarlett Johansson on a dawgy lead and I'll be very content (only kidding).

** why kidding imbaud ? that is the best combination of her previous adventurous spirit plus her new-found loyalty as a real woman now needing love more than sex.

originally posted by: [post=18649177]IShotMyLastMuse[/post


But once she danced on a table in a pub to a song i requested (lowdown, by tom waits)
And seeing her without restrait, was amazing, even if it lasted less than the song, and i loved it, it was chaotic, it was unleashed, and it was for me.
There is just this incredible beauty to be seen when a woman does it right.

i guess the best way to put it is to quote Nietzsche:
"You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star."
And when you see that start taking shape, yep, it's an amazing view.

yes. one bitc* of mine is both beautiful and liberated. she grinds and twerks in the disco and makes all the guys eyes pop out. i love it. i love her. she loves me. we live.

a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

See, I think you described the exact sort of thing that my husband refers to.
Maybe this becomes a desire when you are with a woman who keeps her energy "under wraps" most of the time- you start to wish she would let off the brakes once in a while.


- It seems obvious, reading you other guys posts, that there isn't a real conformity on this. But I love reading how you feel about women- especially, by such articulate men! Not all guys have the ability to put all this into words, even if their feelings are just as complex.

I think the question of sexual liberation is more relevant than I wanted to include there. How much of our self restraint is linked to a fear of becoming sexually involved with many people? Hum... eh.... I imagine myself in his dream, dancing around or whatever, having all these mens attention drawn to me... and I am a rather empathic person (which causes some confusion- in the presence of someone feeling sexually aroused, I feel it too, so get rather confused about my own feelings) and hot damn- Charlie Hunnam...? There might be more risk than he witnessed in his dream!

I won't say that keeping myself a wall flower isn't linked to fear of that. Perhaps I just figured that my husband (and all men) knew that.

Oooh, there's Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in "Eyes Wide Shut".

a reply to: Bluesma

Personally speaking, I have always been a one woman man. I have never been capable of mere animal arousal at the sight of someone, without being interested in their deeper person. I have to be emotionally bonded before that ever comes into play, and that takes time, normally speaking. So the idea that people, not just the ladies mind, but people in general may fear becoming involved with many people is not entirely without merit. For me, it is not fear, it is simply that the idea has no value to me, and a heart is a terrible thing to waste.

It is a source of sadness to me that I have not found a partner for life, and a worse sorrow still that I ever had a romantic dalliance of any length or importance before finding such a person in life. I am only twenty nine years of age, but I was bought up in an old fashioned manner, and it distresses me to find that certain aspects of the traditional way of life have been disrupted to the point where such a thing is rare, rather than being the norm.

To be absolutely frank, I am increasingly of the belief that I have no counterpart, that the very idea is now so antiquated and outmoded in the public perception, that to come across someone who appreciates these aspects of love and living in the way I do, is probably less likely than the possibility of saving the Earth from a comet strike with a cricket bat and a bloody good right arm.

a reply to: TrueBrit

It is paradoxal to hear that, when most women claim that is exactly the kind of guy they hope to find!

I personally was very cynical concerning love and never believed in someone out there who is right for me.
Even in getting married, I didn't really think it would be for life, because I didn't believe love can last. Everyone around me as I grew up fell in and out of love constantly.

So it was a surprise to me that it has lasted so long (24 years) and that we are actually still in love, and still have so much to talk about! We are still discovering things about each other! It seems I found a guy who is as weird as I, as if he was "made" for me... even if I never looked for it.
That makes me think that perhaps expectations might be detrimental to relationships?

You are still young yet. My brother found the perfect mate and got married at 40 years old. She was really worth the wait though I think. The only problem is trying to have kids so late in life- it becomes more tricky. And it is sad to see men and women with such great minds struggle with that... while the idiots are popping out puppies each minute....

a reply to: TrueBrit

I have never been capable of mere animal arousal at the sight of someone, without being interested in their deeper person.

Then you are a rare and invaluable member of society, my friend... a diamond in the ruff.

And chin up old chap, you WILL stumble across that special lady one day, most likely when you least expect it. Some people are lucky enough to find each other at a young age, whilst the rest of us fumble along for many a decade before we finally luck out and land the right one... in our latter years, after endless disappointments. But it does happen eventually.

The fortunate aspect of finding that special someone in your latter years is that both parties have had the benefit of improving their underlying characteristics like a fine aged wine.

I now look back on the first half of my life span as an assemblage of Shakespearean tragicomedies... and smile.

Hahahaha! ....

originally posted by: Bluesma
a reply to: TrueBrit

It is paradoxal to hear that, when most women claim that is exactly the kind of guy they hope to find!

... The line above is a source of great confusion to me! You see, although I try not to pay too much conscious mind to these matters (since a tendancy to dwell on them can make one feel hollow after a time), my subconscious mind spends a great deal of process time deconstructing that simple truth. It is true that many females, when speaking with friends, will make statements like that, but what I have found is that those self same females have a tendancy to make choices which take them as far away from that type of man as possible.

This is one of many things which befuddles me entirely about the whole business! I have had members of the opposite sex in whom I had some interest, with whom I had some familiarity and emotional connection, state precisely that, to my face, and then go off with a person who was obviously a cad with a wandering eye.

Of all the mysteries which mankind has wrought upon itself, this is perhaps one of the most confounding!

a reply to: CranialSponge

I also look back, and laugh sometimes, but I also find myself determined to learn from my mistakes, rather than repeat them. With regard to the possibility of me ever stumbling across someone with whom I can share myself in good faith... I would certainly hope that it happens before I pass too many more years without such companionship. I fear that isolation of the sort I feel sometimes will have an unfortunate effect on my ability to engage with such emotions, if I end up having to wait until I am past my prime to do so.

a reply to: TrueBrit

This is one of many things which befuddles me entirely about the whole business! I have had members of the opposite sex in whom I had some interest, with whom I had some familiarity and emotional connection, state precisely that, to my face, and then go off with a person who was obviously a cad with a wandering eye.

You can blame those actions on these particular individuals' dysfunctional characteristics. Those dysfunctions (baggage) come in many flavours ranging anywhere from a desperation to just have someone/anyone in their life, to immature thinking processes, to lack of self-respect, to a history of abuse, to lack of self-assessment, to poor judgement of character, etc etc.

Rather than assessing the gender, take a closer look at the individual and assess on an individual basis. You'll surprise yourself by discovering that these individuals will actually have certain characteristic flaws that direct them towards these various types of behaviour.

Particularly if these individuals are between the ages of 13 and 30... immaturity is a huge factor more times than not in many cases.

We all possess our fair share of dysfunctions and its related dysfunctional behaviours. And those dysfunctions are the driving factor to many many mistakes in our lives. Some of us are able to look within as we mature and gain more wisdom through the years, recognize those dysfunctions, and then correct them... others, not so much.

This is equally true for both males and females alike.

a reply to: CranialSponge

Well of course they come down to such as you describe, these otherwise inexplicable hypocrisies. I suppose I just find the inadequacy of that situation rather vexatious at times!

a reply to: TrueBrit

It's quite possible that you're most likely mature beyond your years and finding that most of the females in your age range are not quite up to par with you, yet... thus failing even the most basic of litmus tests in your search for an equal partner ?

Just some food for thought.

a reply to: CranialSponge

LOL! I have known myself for quite a few years, and of all the words that I can think of to describe myself, mature is way at the back of the list, so far back that it has dust, cobwebs, and a previously undiscovered and ancient copy of the Guttenberg Bible obscuring it from veiw!

a reply to: TrueBrit



Okay okay... so I was grasping at straws.


I'll courier pigeon some Canadian lassies your way as a peace offering... they'll be the ones carrying a pound of round bacon and a hockey stick.

originally posted by: TrueBrit

... The line above is a source of great confusion to me! You see, although I try not to pay too much conscious mind to these matters (since a tendancy to dwell on them can make one feel hollow after a time), my subconscious mind spends a great deal of process time deconstructing that simple truth. It is true that many females, when speaking with friends, will make statements like that, but what I have found is that those self same females have a tendancy to make choices which take them as far away from that type of man as possible.

I had my mind wandering back to that very often yesterday. I found myself looking through my memories of my own experiences, and those that I have observed around me.

It is what I often refer to as the attraction to the "bad boys"- which doesn't really mean the criminal sorts, but just the kind of men women claim not to want, and yet repeatedly go after!

I lived with a guy that was one of those, when I was 20, even got pregnant by him, and finally decided to leave him when I was 8 months pregnant.

A couple years later, I fell in love with my present husband, who was not at all a "bad boy"- he was a nice guy, who liked to stay quiet around new people, and observe. He wrote in a journal each day. He took his time observing and listening to me, before asking me out, and took even more time before agreeing to sleep with me. He takes his choices seriously and invests himself once they are made. I loved that he didn't want to just waste himself and his emotions on what might be fruitless encounters. And he practiced some introspection- took time to evaluate what he felt about his daily experiences.

So, I asked myself, what changed in me? -and it comes back to this topic, only on the other side- men being liberated from self restraint! The old boyfriend was putting his energy out there without restraint or control. That power (talking personal power- the individual will) had a strong attraction factor. Not only for me, but for other young women. He had women all over him, all the time. He did his own thing, with no holds barred. And attention from women was needed by him to keep some self confidence- which gave women in his life a certain kind of unacknowledged secret sense of power.

But two things happened to me while I was pregnant- one, I started to feel like it was not productive to be living so much in the moment and for oneself, as he wanted to do. I started to feel it was important to save energy, for more long term projects, and with responsibility to others in mind (understandably, seeing my condition).

Then when I took off and made a life for myself alone, I developed a sense of my own power inside, which sort of made me less vulnerable to attraction to it outside. I had many men interested in me, but just lacked interest, because I was happy with myself and felt safe with myself.

That was when, I guess, I was able to "recognize" a person in a similar state and appreciate them. A man who was just as independent, with a self confidence that was not dependent upon attention from others. Because of that, he was not pulled to waste energy and power in short term and superficial actions. He could afford to sit back and think carefully before diving in.

So I guess what I came up with by the time I woke up this morning, is that there is a certain amount of self awareness and self empowerment a woman needs to discover in herself before she finds herself attracted to a guy like you. It might be like apples, if you want the ones that are ripe, you have to wait a bit longer. It just might be worth it though!


But the way this falls back into the topic- I personally do not like men who flaunt too much their power and energy. The guys who show off their sport cars, or dress in showy clothes, and brag about their successes.

-And yet, I do find something attractive about the older man, that says nothing about his awesome luxury car, seems to be wearing casual non-descript clothing (until you get in close and see the brand) because it signifies a guy who doesn't waste life showing and telling, but DOING.

I think I might have a tendency to project that same feeling upon my mate- that he might prefer I be a unremarkable lady in public, and a vixen in the bedroom, or a chef in the kitchen, a singing star in our own livingroom.

That might be partly true, but perhaps even he, the king of retenu, wants to sometimes break out and show what he's got and what he's earned. Even his wife might be included in that..


Despite your claim of immaturity, your posts reflect and internal reflection and awareness that says otherwise. We might not be measuring maturity the same way. Internal maturity does not always manifest outside, it is not always evident in what the person has done and achieved already. It can be seen, by some women, as untapped power being saved up for the right cause to come along.

Cranial Sponge really said the same thing, though I took the longer route, which is my habit

The right mate for you could be "in the making" still......