Let's examine the hard American political corruption, shall we?

Ok, so on this thread I am hoping for help from everyone. I'm pretty well versed on conspiracy theories and such, but a feel a lot of CTs lack evidence and are just speculation. A list of the former is what I want to start compiling. Once we can seperate the fact from fiction maybe a better picture of how bad things truly are in the US goverment will form.

So here's a few examples of what would be useful. Each is a proven case of corruption/shadiness/dishonety and some reasonable conclusions we can draw from it.

1. NSA spying, Obama lying, Snowden flying.

-We know the NSA had access to our electronic communications on a massive scale. I won't eleborate on all the details, but this is big, big, overstep of power.

-Obama came and out and told the American people that no one was listening to the content of phone calls. This was a lie. A bold face slap in the face lie from our president.

2. Bengazi

-A terrorist attack was downplayed and misrepresentated as "backlash for a video" by Obama and Hillary. This was a lie. It was such a stupid, blatant, head scratchingly obvious lie that I don't understand why they used it. Shed some light please, I never got this.

-take away: Obama has no crediblity, Hillary has no credibility. We aren't asking much from our leaders nowadays are we..

3. Inexplicable border policy

-I live in Texas, I'm disgusted they are just sitting back and letting kids come through and busing them around the country. I think this is a big deal and very telling. What does the Executive branch gain from this HUGE risk they are taking with our nation's safety and future livelihood?

-takeaways: I'm going to leave this for someone else to take a stab at, too personal an issue for me to remain unbiased.


Ok, there is so much more but I don't want to grt carried away. Contributions and feedback are appreciated, and I'll check later to see what we have. Remember, my goal is to present a fact based analysis of US corruption to get a clear picture of the problem, so keep speulation to a minimum.

If you think this is a terrible idea ignore it and move on with your life.

I wanted to add really quickly.. my examples were pretty well known events. I will add links from credible sources later, but if you can it would help to back up any examples with evidence/proof, just to maintain the overall accuracy of this endeavor.

Well 2 out of 3 isn't bad. I will leave it to you to figure out which two you got right.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Well 2 out of 3 isn't bad. I will leave it to you to figure out which two you got right.

I'm assuming you mean #3? I asked for feedback so I'm not going to be offended if you disagree with anything I put down, in fact it's what I'm looking for.

originally posted by: dr1234
Ok, so on this thread I am hoping for help from everyone. I'm pretty well versed on conspiracy theories and such, but a feel a lot of CTs lack evidence and are just speculation. A list of the former is what I want to start compiling. Once we can seperate the fact from fiction maybe a better picture of how bad things truly are in the US goverment will form.

If you think this is a terrible idea ignore it and move on with your life.

It's not a terrible idea. BUT, I have to say I came to a kind of chilling conclusion some time back that I think you should at least consider.

And that conclusion was that we have a very poor definition of words like "facts" and "evidence".

Hear me out. The thing about it is that the vast majority of the population does not see, hear, read or "know" anything that was not communicated to us by the people who own the MSM. As such, all TPTB have to do in order to own our minds is simply to own the MSM.

Unless you see it happen with your own eyes or someone you personally know very well saw it or unless you see a video that would be very hard to fake, you cannot be sure that ANYTHING is a fact simply because it came through the MSM. Just because all these people acknowledge it as such, that does not necessarily make it so.

But this kinda means we're pretty much screwed if we don't just automatically believe the media. They are the only people with any real credibility but their credibility only goes as far as you feel you can trust them. Unfortunately, I don't trust them.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: dr1234
Ok, so on this thread I am hoping for help from everyone. I'm pretty well versed on conspiracy theories and such, but a feel a lot of CTs lack evidence and are just speculation. A list of the former is what I want to start compiling. Once we can seperate the fact from fiction maybe a better picture of how bad things truly are in the US goverment will form.

If you think this is a terrible idea ignore it and move on with your life.

It's not a terrible idea. BUT, I have to say I came to a kind of chilling conclusion some time back that I think you should at least consider.

And that conclusion was that we have a very poor definition of words like "facts" and "evidence".

Hear me out. The thing about it is that the vast majority of the population does not see, hear, read or "know" anything that was not communicated to us by the people who own the MSM. As such, all TPTB have to do in order to own our minds is simply to own the MSM.

Unless you see it happen with your own eyes or someone you personally know very well saw it or unless you see a video that would be very hard to fake, you cannot be sure that ANYTHING is a fact simply because it came through the MSM. Just because all these people acknowledge it as such, that does not necessarily make it so.

But this kinda means we're pretty much screwed if we don't just automatically believe the media. They are the only people with any real credibility but their credibility only goes as far as you feel you can trust them. Unfortunately, I don't trust them.

This is an excellent point, and believe me I've struggled with this myself. I'm still partly indoctrinated to believe only "credible sources" are trustworthy. The majority of corruption is surely locked away and only heard by few, many who don't believe it. But here's the kicker, they're not even hiding a lot of crap right now. A lot of stuff is put in the open (the 5 trade for ex.) and a lot has been leaked. Most of these are as verifable as anything else we consider true, and this is the stuff that got most of our attention on the first place, right? So maybe I should have said a list of what the general public will reasonably accept as true, based on the sources that they trust and are verifiable through the media. There is enough out there that if taken all at once one would begin to lose the reverence of main stream media and official goverment stories. I know there was for me (even if my exposure was spread out over time).

originally posted by: dr1234
1. NSA spying, Obama lying, Snowden flying.

-We know the NSA had access to our electronic communications on a massive scale. I won't eleborate on all the details, but this is big, big, overstep of power.

-Obama came and out and told the American people that no one was listening to the content of phone calls. This was a lie. A bold face slap in the face lie from our president.

This is a bit more nuanced and from Obama's perspective wasn't a lie. All of our communications get fed through a server, the content of the communications is totally irrelevant 99.999999% of the time. What is important is the metadata. From that you can construct social networks of who is talking to who, and when they're doing it. Using these networks and degrees of separation from known interesting people you can figure out who needs further investigation. At that point you analyze the content of the message and look for codes across several communications. Only if that then comes back as suspicious does someone at the NSA actually listen in. They only have about 1000 people who perform this job. That's about 7500 man hours per day which doesn't even cover 1% of the communications of a small town, much less the world. What they do listen to is a very small percentage.

a reply to: dr1234

4. US illegal wars in the Middle East and how it negatively effect the region. For example, the US took out Qaddafi and in the process turned Libya into a Islamist haven since before the US invasion, Qaddafi was able to keep them in check.

The poster above me touched on this but got a key part of it wrong in my opinion. US foreign policy is sick. We have some of the shortest terms for leaders in the developed world, and we have two parties that are radically opposed to each other. Every time a new president comes in, he sets a new course for foreign policy. Israel, Iraq, China, Japan, Canada, Mexico, Korea, every 4 years our relationships with these countries change. No one wants to be friends with America because we are unstable. We can have a close bond for a few years, and then treat you as our worst enemy the very next year.

This leads to a lot of meddling where programs from multiple administrations cross over. Fighting in Iraq? Well, give guns to the Syrians. Forget that they'll just head across the border and use them on us too. Don't like the Soviet Union? Arm the Afghani's, that will turn out great for us in 15 years. How old is that picture now of McCain meeting with the head of ISIS? 2 years old? That one sure turned out great didn't it?

Our foreign policy is short sighted, we never project what outcomes it will have after the president leaves office and a new one steps in. This isn't even a conspiracy, it's just incompetence.

Corruption starts at the All Candidates Forum
No real questions get asked so the people with less than spotless backgrounds get a free pass
Blame the forum organizers for that. Boo to the CofC
a reply to: dr1234

a reply to: BrianFlanders

VERY GOOD POINT!

Until we all realize this aspect we are just tackling a symptom and ignoring the disease.

You can address all kind of things about American politics and all other country's politics. But understand they ALL are on the same page. All we understand is what is relayed to us by the MSM.

News, television, movies, etc... There is no disclaimer that tells us it's real or true, yet we assume is for some reason.