BBC Says Russia has invaded the Ukraine (10th time)

a reply to: Nikola014

It must feel really annoying when you try your hardest to blame it on Russia, but you just can't defeat the logic and stop the truth from coming out.

And yet Russia needs no help in showing who is at fault concerning Ukraine. What logic would that be that Russia is using?

I know, the logic of " if I deny it long it enough it will come true ". That's real sound logic.

It really is amazing how those 3-4 members are always posting in these kind of threads with same old "arguments".

The same arguments that you and other Putinista's aren't able to refute.

Do you guys ever take a break or is this your job? Just curious.

So a couple of hours at night is too much for us to be here...sorry mom I will get off the computer and go to bed.

Also why does it matter how long someone is on ATS...is there a new time limit that I don't know about?

Just Curious...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Again unconfirmed reports are not propaganda...

No mate, unconfirmed reports is not propaganda in the least and Google makes sure its puts "unconfirmed" in big red bold text in the title and no one reads "unconfirmed" reports even if it contains interviews, pictures, comments and the usual zealous over reacting reporting we have become accustom to from the BBC when it comes to Russia attacking us.

Silly me, I forgot the BBC just happens to spend as much of its time on these "unconfirmed reports" as it does in asking news casters about their thoughts on subjects that they know nothing about because they don't have any news footage or even pictures but these news casters always have a opinion that is aligned with the double speak coming out of Downing street.

No to do "Propaganda" the BBC would have a 'P' in its name like "Russia Today" has

a reply to: VirusGuard

If you bothered to actually look, you would find quite a lot of confirmed reporting on Ukraine by the BBC, with photos and footage, as well as informed comment. Getting all hot and sweaty because the BBC said there were "unconfirmed" reports and then going off on tangent as to how bad they are at reporting because it's "unconfirmed", is acting like you are going out of your way to find complaint.

The BBC is not a propaganda tool in the way Russia Today is, nor is the western media run by some mysterious bunch of Zionists or crazy lizards with journalists bullied and occasionally murdered, as happens in Russia. Just because the mainstream does not report what you personally think it should report, does not mean it is wrong. Of course, the entire western media could be wrong, but somehow I don't think that's plausible.

Oh, I know it's difficult to believe, but Putin and his very, very rich mates he surrounds himself is being out-played, even with control of the Russian media.

Regards

Would not surprise me if Russia went into Ukraine and pushed Ukraine out of Luhansk and Donetsk now after the voting.

Russia holds these cards in the game:
1 It is winter and gas will be needed in Ukraine. Shutting down the pipeline will hurt Ukraine.
2 Votes have been made in Luhansk and Donetsk and that are said to support the separatists so Putin will use it as a justification.

The difference between this situation and Crimea is that the demographics seem to be around 50% Russian 50% Ukraine in these areas so if these areas should be Ukraine or Russian I have no opinion on. One side Putin (more or less corrupt) who need these regions for industrial capability on the other side a western created puppet regime who is anti Russia even if part of Ukraine are pro Russia.

I do not think Russia will attack Kiev since it will not be in Putin:s propaganda interest. As long as Russia can be seen as liberating it's people Putin will be able to have the support of it's citizens. Attacking Kiev will change public opinion in Russia.

The western powers do not really have anything to counter with. Russia will continue to move away from EU and the western economy system so the economic sanctions will matter less.

This is what happens when international law means nothing anymore. To bad for the Ukrainian people. Another country used as proxy war between Russia and US interest.

a reply to: paraphi

The fact is that Putin is bent on driving Russia into the dirt. Economic sanctions will continue until he stops meddling and accepts that Ukraine don't want to be Russia's poor cousin anymore.

I think you are overstating the power of the sanctions. Russia have already made it clear that it intends to move away from western influence and push BRICS instead instead of Petrodollar. It will hit the Russian economy a bit but when Russia is fully decoupled western sanctions and economy will have little influence on Russia.

a reply to: paraphi

So the western side BBC is not propaganda but more truth full than RT?
Really?
.

I will just move along and not try to take anything you say seriously. If I want your opinion I will get it directly from BBC that is the source instead of reading your posts.

For those who see all mainstream media as propaganda I will continue to discuss your posts to try to find the information behind the propaganda.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
I think you are overstating the power of the sanctions. Russia have already made it clear that it intends to move away from western influence and push BRICS instead instead of Petrodollar.

I think you are overstating the power of the BRICS. The EU and the US account for 34 trillion GDP whereas the BRICS account for around 15 trillion, of which 9 trillion is China. The market for Russian gas is the EU - it is convenient. Brazil is far away and out of sight. Russia's economy is gas dependent and only about the size of Italy's.

Regards

Every time the Dutch MH17 investigators want to search the crash site Kiev starts with this BS.

They want to recover pieces of the wreckage tomorrow and have been making an agreement with the Separatists for protection, just as many times before.

If Russia has actually invaded and hope so, then what is the goal of Kremlin now.

a) Maintain current area plus develop a land corridor to Crimea
b) Take all the area declared on the map of NovoRossiya i.e 5 to 7 Oblasts.
c) In addition to NovoRossiya also take Kiev and join in a common border with Belarus.
d) Take all of Ukraine except for the Catholic/Fascist western bulge near Polish border.

I think "D" is the best option. Even after taking all of this, Kremlin can nicely ask those who want to leave and go to the western bulge will be facilitated and cooperated with. Those who have shown open sentiments with Right Sector type elements will be given a 'non welcome' status and they will choose what is right for their future, now or later.

Leaving Ukraine into two big pieces will create problems later on as anti-Russia portion will always feel that they have the economic and manpower might to retake the pro-Russian new country the NovoRossiya. US/West will always keep trying to use the western portion to create problems against Russia and its interests in the region. Hence that problem needs to be solved with an efficient hand.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
I think you are overstating the power of the sanctions. Russia have already made it clear that it intends to move away from western influence and push BRICS instead instead of Petrodollar.

I think you are overstating the power of the BRICS. The EU and the US account for 34 trillion GDP whereas the BRICS account for around 15 trillion, of which 9 trillion is China. The market for Russian gas is the EU - it is convenient. Brazil is far away and out of sight. Russia's economy is gas dependent and only about the size of Italy's.

Regards

A loaf of bread might cost $2 average in US/EU but only 50 cents in the BRICS nations. A can of pop 50 cents in US/EU and only a dime in BRICS.

So go and re-figure the economic maths a little.

a reply to: victor7

Strategically if they take more it should be to the Dnjepr, that would be the most easy to defend.

Russia isn`t interested in more land, it will only cost them too much. Frozen conflict is what they are looking for, but Kiev seems to have orders to keep disrupting the East, so if Russia feels forced by the constant harassment they can go for everything up to the Dnjepr (and maybe a quick action against the rest of the Ukraine, but retrieve back behind the Dnjepr).

But knowing Ukraine is part of the bigger plan to attack Syria and Iran so Russian forces need to be tied up in the Ukraine, I don`t think Russia is that interested in going deeper inside the Ukraine. But strategically it also could be wise to take them out, but the aftermath is where the problems lie for Russia. The attack itself would be a piece of cake for them. If they now let Ukraine being trained and equipped, once the attack on Syria and Iran will take place it will face an offensive at the same time from the Ukraine too a few years down the road.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Is this the same BBC that got awarded for faking that Syrian Aleppo school attack? i am surprised people are still buying BBC for the 10th time here.

a reply to: all2human

To those in here whom think that America or the EU isn't directly involved in Ukraine must have their head checked and as this the same west that lied about the reasoning for an military intervention in Libya.

At least people finally arent believing the lies unlike some here defending the Ukrankian nationalists so heavily.
From the guardian and elsewhere.

MESSAGE TO GUARDIAN.....Please substantiate you reporting with some evidence such as photos, vidios, satellite imagery. There is an overabundance of those methods out there so please use them. Enough roomer mongering about mysterious tank columns going back and fourth, special forces raids, Russian submarines of the coast of Sweden with mysterious voices calling for help. We need to be informed not entertained when "news" is the subject.

An article about an invisible army/tanks/guns written by unnamed writers from unidentified "agencies." Smells like fiction written by the CIA. They are an "agency" after all.

and you think we should just accept what Kiev claims as fact? Why would we do that?

Claims without proof. Even the BBC admits it cannot independently verify yet another Ukrainian fantasy announcement.

Sometimes people whom have a different opinion are attacked for it as well.

and everyone with a different opinion is conveniently dismissed as a "Putinbot" - nothing says healthy discussion like reducionism...cough cough cough...

So the EU declares the recent elections illegal in Eastern Ukraine illegal? What, didn't like the result? Until the EU can hold democratic elections they have no credibility on elections whatsoever and should mind their own business and fix their own catastrophe which is Western Europe unemployment.

To back up what the comments.

-Only die hard supporters and fans of Petro Poroshenko will believing this accusation no one else.

-International supporters of the Ukrankian nationalist parties of Ukraine will be defending this news report.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Nice try with the claims that Putin is the only one whom was Defending Soviet's pact with hitler. Britian & America are the ones whom had a warm relationship with hitler.

How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power

Apparently Putin is busy rewriting history as he conveniently ignores the secret protocols in that USSR-NAZI

America's beloved GW Bush grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power its comical for you to claim and suggest that Russia had a pact with the Nazis while on the other hand.

Its the west that failed to stop the German aggression into Europe. But didn't because of the Bunny bed relationships with Germany.

So nice try with that one. I am sure your going to deny this relationship or rewrite it.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Just a friendly reminder to about your comment in here.

, you would find quite a lot of confirmed reporting on Ukraine by the BBC, with photos and footage,

Remember how BBC lied about the Syrian massacre while as they an image from the Iraqi war showing an kid jumping through a pill of bodies?

Let me refresh you on that as i noticed your suggesting that we should take images and footages as facts and true but in fact those are just the opposite.

The BBC is not a propaganda tool
Your comical.



If the BBC AREN'T AN Propaganda Tool then why did the BBC lie about Syria? Libya? the Child Rape Gang parties in the UK?
On Syria.
BBC News uses 'Iraq photo to illustrate Syrian massacre'

On Westren Media.



On UK BBC Pedo Ring of the British Government.

"unconfirmed" reports and then going off on tangent as to how bad they are at reporting because it's "unconfirmed", is acting like you are going out of your way to find complaint.

Has that Fake Submarine in Sweden being found yet? still waiting.........

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I don`t think Russia is that interested in going deeper inside the Ukraine. But strategically it also could be wise to take them out, but the aftermath is where the problems lie for Russia.

Can't leave a sizeable monster in the jungle to come back and create geopolitical problems later on. Kiev has historically been a major part of Russia so it cannot be left just like that in the hands of fascists.

Once Russia has all the land it wants in Ukraine controlling would be easy with firm hand. Anyone creating anti-Russia type problems, riots and civil disorder will be immediately deported to Siberia along with the family. A dozen of such cases and average minded persons will know how to live and behave.

Ask any average Chechen how their lives are now vrs from 1995 to 2005 and which lifestyle they would prefer going forward.

a reply to: victor7

Controlling land costs lots of military and funds (not only army, but also population will cost).

Russia doesn`t have huge numbers of good soldiers, so if they control Ukraine, they have less to defend the Main land and to help out Syria or Iran if needed. Russia has only about a couple of 100.000 well trained soldiers to work with.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

True but it depends on what type of control you want to implement. An average person seeks peace and progress in life. Towing the line of thugs and hired goon is not want common person wants.

Once the thugs and goons are finding "very hard work" in the cold and wild of Siberia then things will start to come to line.

P*uss*y footing is not going to work. If Putin wants to re-energize Russia as a major power then he will have to hit HARD on the topic of corruption. Russian economy breaking free from the shackles of corruption and in diversified growth mode will itself quieten down any hostilities and frictions within and outside the country. With people in Kiev, Kharkiv, Odessa etc. finding jobs and business interests in and with Russia, the general mind focus on daily living and progress, will be more than enough to kill off 95% of the opposition and riot making.

Like Chechens, the Kieveans will soon find as to which power stands to give them higher benefits and respect and not use them as pawns in the geopolitical game to feed the ego and arrogance of western leaders and bankers.

a reply to: victor7

But that`s more long term, don`t expect TPTB to wait that long before they go after Syria and Iran. US is going to send in another bunch of "advisers" to Iraq, and knowing US mostly starts wars with sending them in first, you know what will happen.