Next Level BS #18: Eminent Domain Abuse and Corruption: Because... Money!

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric
I will never forget the first time I heard about eminent domain.

It seemed so wrong on so many levels that at first I thought it had to be a joke.

I guess the joke was on me once I realized that the government could actually get away with claiming my own property as theirs.

In the UK there are such things as compulsory purchase orders, it can be done by the Westminster Government, or local authorities it is quite a powerful law, but can still be contested. However the law states that anyone displaced should never lose their financial position, that has to include a property value. It's mostly used for road and rail infrastructure improvements. Cities may use the order, I don't exactly how that applies, but rehousing is likely applicable including any other costs due to upheaval.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: MagesticEsoteric
I will never forget the first time I heard about eminent domain.

It seemed so wrong on so many levels that at first I thought it had to be a joke.

I guess the joke was on me once I realized that the government could actually get away with claiming my own property as theirs.

In the UK there are such things as compulsory purchase orders, it can be done by the Westminster Government, or local authorities it is quite a powerful law, but can still be contested. However the law states that anyone displaced should never lose their financial position, that has to include a property value. It's mostly used for road and rail infrastructure improvements. Cities may use the order, I don't exactly how that applies, but rehousing is likely applicable including any other costs due to upheaval.

However the law states that anyone displaced should never lose their financial position, that has to include a property value

And whom decides the "Property value"? the homeowner/ the market or most probably the Government.........
Don't misunderstand me I thought your post was fantastic to say the least, but I am serious in my questions.
Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: smurfy

The scariest part of this most recent issue is how the local municipalities classified target neighborhoods with home values between $90k and $212k as blighted. That way, the people could never actually sell their homes, loosing whatever fight they might have with the municipality before it even begins.

Despicable.

Yes I saw that, and it's criminal deceit, not a proper law that's why I just posted on the UK's compulsory Order. I don't say that law is perfect, nobody's going to run a train line through Buckingham Palace for instance even if it was the only way to go that only shows the hypocrisy of the law in how it treats people with deference when it needs too..they always find a way. But this blighted thing is so in your face, and came from the Supreme court as I understand it, do they just rubber stamp everything?

a reply to: retiredTxn

I stand corrected, there are so few court decisions that go for the people in the last decade I got the courts mixed up!

On a side note but it is related to this issue in my opinion is that we had to appeal our tax assessment last year as our home's value went up almost 40k in two years and at tax increases of anywhere from 3 to 6% yearly it was adding up quickly.
But if we lived on property by a lake that the Government had eyes for guess what our assessment would have been then?

Regards, Iwinder

This is a good topic

Here in this situation

It goes beyond BS.. its all the manure from the farmbelt

1) No you do not own the land

If you owned it
It could not be taken from you because you dont make a payment

Its more of a lease agreement

People are allowed to sell the leases

Every piece of property in the us comes with Taxes.
Its a functioning lease

If you do not pay the Lease(taxes) they take it



SkepticOverlord you mentioned an issue of zoning as blight
I feel it falls with this argument (landlord decides issue)
I would be very interested if you had any links
Detriot is prime example from a recent thread
(If I followed the post idea correctly)



I went a little sideways on the topic

first a good site I came across The institute of justice
www.ij.org...

It has links on the side with several other ED cases

The main ones that come to mind in Texas
Cowboy Stadium
Arlington turning to eminent domain for (Dallas Cowboys) stadium land

Eminent Domain Ruling Affects Dallas Cowboys Stadium

Stadium Eminent Domain

Sum it up.. They took the land for the Dallas Cowboys to use


PRIVATE TOLLWAY NEAR EAST DALLAS DRAWS IRE FROM RECORD CROWD

Blacklands Corridor - NE Gateway Tollway

Uncertainty about the Path of a Dallas Company's Toll Road Worries Property Owners


Long short
A private company was given by law the ability to exercise ED



thats just two issues of it here in texas

This is a power that should be removed completely
Otherwise no one is free IMHO

It is the first in a long link of chains on us all

I agree that Eminent Domain is crap, especially in this manifestation of it. However, it's important to know the nature of your enemy and in this case... it's the US Constitution, our founders and our early Supreme Court. Our founders stated and believed that Eminent Domain is the right of Sovereignty, that it didn't even need to be in the Constitution except for restricting it's use to "Public use" and only with compensation.

''The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution says 'nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.' This is a tacit recognition of a preexisting power to take private property for public use, rather than a grant of new power.'' 160 Eminent domain ''appertains to every independent government. It requires no constitutional recognition; it is an attribute of sovereignty.'' 161 In the early years of the nation the federal power of eminent domain lay dormant, 162 and it was not until 1876 that its existence was recognized by the Supreme Court. In Kohl v. United States 163 any doubts were laid to rest, as the Court affirmed that the power was as necessary to the existence of the National Government as it was to the existence of any State. The federal power of eminent domain is, of course, limited by the grants of power in the Constitution, so that property may only be taken for the effectuation of a granted power, 164 but once this is conceded the ambit of national powers is so wide- ranging that vast numbers of objects may be effected. 165 This prerogative of the National Government can neither be enlarged nor diminished by a State. 166 Whenever lands in a State are needed for a public purpose, Congress may authorize that they be taken, either by proceedings in the courts of the State, with its consent, or by proceedings in the courts of the United States, with or without any consent or concurrent act of the State. 167 - See more at: constitution.findlaw.com...

Tackling this issue means acknowledging that the Constitution isn't perfect and is in need of some tweaking. It is also a double edged sword, that perhaps ends up giving too much power to private land 'owners'.

If the government tried to take my house, giving me six grand for it, I would file a twenty million dollar lawsuit against any government agencies involved in it. Why pittle around with just the value of your home, they are screwing you, they need to pay big time. I can see if it is a necessary road and legitimate reimbursement, but the examples were not even reasonable as to compensation or the reason for the action.

a reply to: theNLBS

So, you have city administrations turning over private property to corporations, you have police officers taking sums of cash from motorists without reasonable or probable cause, you have asset forfeiture laws which render the concept of ownership of private property a total nonsense...

I would ask just how laws which allow this sort of thing get passed, but of course, once officials get themselves elected, they have the capacity to do whatever they want, and until the time comes where the people once again get to vote, no one can stop them, no one can prevent their actions causing harm.

Great episode. I especially liked the facts mixed in with the information. Learning a bit while being entertained.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Hang in there......they bout to burn themselves out...not just republicans.

a reply to: theNLBS

CAN'T EVEN STAND TO LISTEN TO THIS GUY. His FOWL MOUTH is horrible. We can listen to clean versions of this information with other Youtube channels, Alex Jones, Michal Savage, Steve Quayle, etc. This guy hosting NLBS is just making peoples ears bleed. He acts like he thinks his cool and he thinks that he is relating to the common man with his not funny humor and his dirty mouth. PLEASE STOP POSTING THIS GUYS VIDEOS ON HERE.

I live in the city of Fremont California if you want to talk about Corruption and pennies on the dollar. I live right in the path of the BART "Bay Area Rapid Transit" extension MY HOUSE IS GOING TO BE A PARKING LOT !
My grandfather bought this house in the late 50's my mom grew up here ..I grew up here .. and my kids are growing up here
My family is the only family on the street that wouldn't let the city low-ball us on the price of the land they needed to do a street widening project . The Fremont city counsel also gave the projects to construction company's that didn't place the lowest bid THEY GAVE THE PROJECTS TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS THAT OWN CONSTRUCTION COMPANY'S
I have documents that show to be true. I also have documents that show that the city of Fremont was and is knowingly basing prices on land appraisals on empty lots from different cities around the area that have a lower land values. O yeah did i mention that the person they had do the appraisals was not qualified to do so then tried to hide his name from the public I have documents that show this to be true. I have evidence that shows mas corruption in the city of Fremont SO MUCH SO THAT IF I BLOW THE WHISTLE THE TRI-CITY AREA WOULD NO LONGER BE ABLE TO ISSUE BONDS FOR ANYTHING FOR A LONG TIME .......I need to strike at the right time and and expose the TRUTH at a time when EVERYONE will hear it

a reply to: numscul

Did you get an alternative appraisal report? And, if so, how did your appraisal report differ from the government's appraisal?

I need to strike at the right time and and expose the TRUTH at a time when EVERYONE will hear it

This may be the right place to do so. I don't know if this is the right time, however. You'll have to make that determination yourself based on the information you possess. Given that this video report is placing the corrupt eminent domain issue in the public forefront, this may be the right time as well.


Dex

yes we did get a alternative appraisal report and sent both of them to the governor and copies to the department of transportation ..the independent appraisal report was fair market value based on my location and my property value. where as the one the city of Fremont presented to us was not.... They offered less than half based on property from one city over that had no house on the lot and with lower property value....... Thanx for listening to me a reply to: DexterRiley

a reply to: numscul

I did some research into the BART extension in Fremont. I saw that there was some eminent domain activity going on there, though I don't know if that was related to your family or not. Legal-eze is sometimes difficult to parse, so I couldn't determine if BART was trying to buy a few thousand square feet of this family's 2.5 acre property, or the whole 2.5 acres. However the amount of the offer, if for the entire property, was absolutely ridiculous for a piece of property in that area.

In any event, there are a lot of attorneys who will take on these kinds of cases on a contingency basis. You may have to give them 30% of whatever they can negotiate over the initial offer. But that's better than accepting the lowball initial offer of BART. This kind of activity is typical of local governments.

I researched the final outcome of the New London, Connecticut and Arlington, Texas cases. I found that those residents who held out for more money, and got an attorney involved, got quite a bit more money than initially offered. In the end, both local governments spent over twice their initial lowball estimates to steal the residents property.

You are also on the right track as far as getting the public involved in your case. There are a lot of very intelligent people in this online community here at ATS. Welcome aboard!

Also, given what you have said about the level of corruption in your local government, it would probably be to everyone's advantage to have that exposed regardless of the outcome of your case.

Thanks for sharing your experience and good luck. Let us know how we can help.


Dex

I will get the documents in order and i will hand them over to you DEX so you can go over them and see what you think

a reply to: numscul

Well, I'm no attorney. So, I don't think I can help in that regard. There are several websites online that specialize in eminent domain issues, that would probably be a better choice.

But it would be pretty cool to break the Fremont corruption story here on ATS.


Dex

a reply to: numscul

Have you talked with a lawyer about suing the Appraiser and his company
Naming the company in general and the appraiser twice
In capacity of working for his company
and as an individual(He is not covered by any laws I know of)

maybe make them go through hours of depositions
HOURS.. it gets expensive if they cant go to work
I heard one story where the officers had to sit out side for hours
If they mention any names of who hired them

I would think your preceived loss and loss of time has monetary value


Its just a thought you could get very evil here
Make them pay for every inch of ground

Maybe offer to lease the property to them
not sell, lease
(rental property has a different value and the amount you can ask for is different because of income)

Of note

My gf told me they had the keystone pipeline passed the house
Keystone XL pipeline approval passes House
Odds are it will pass in the new senate

What is interesting is this ties in right where we are talking about here


I do not think anyone has considered how much land they will have to sieze to build the pipeline