UKIP in Britain - Manufacturing a new Hitler

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth

If they did some research they might find that leaving the EU might actually cost more and result in the UK economy being far worse than it is now and many companies dissolving due to lack of EU trade. Whilst eh EU has it's gremlins it also has it's good points and isn't so easy to back out of once in deep, for the sake of the nation.

The UKIP voters might find themselves voting labour by stealth basically and we all know how the last labour government trashed the economy.

o.k. let's deal with these two points.

UKIP want out of the EU as in being governed by Brussels... we do not want out of the trade agreement we orriginally signed.. the maastricht treaty.

Besides there would be little the US of E could do to prevent trade... perhaps impose import duty! Really... I'd love to see them do that... we'd just put the price up on the trades and watch the European corporations put pressure right back on the EU!

Besides... we are an island and surrounded by ports.... there is a whole world out there just waiting to sign close trade ties!

concerning labour... Not a chance they will reach office, they would have to have a clear majority of the house and that is not possible.

No what will happen is clear... Labour may form a coalition with the Lib Dems but the Liberals will hold far less seats than UKIP....

No the only viable outcome based upon current polls is a conservative UKIP coalition, forming a majority.

So no voting UKIP won't allow Labour to slip into power.

Korg.

yes , but dont forget it has been in the news that
priests, TV people & MPs and the like are kiddy fiddlers too.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?

Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

If you hadn't noticed this discussion is on topic, so I have no need to start another thread.

If you have some beef with UKIP I want to hear it so I can put yours and everyone elses mind at rest.

So come on, out with it!

Korg.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

Why? why a new thread what good is a new thread why dont answer the question about youre comment that UKIP is the face of the BNP.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

It isn't as simple as that.

Armchair threats are best kept for the armchair.

Meanwhile in the real world, the EU wouldn't allow an easy option for trade. The facts have to be considered.

As for labour seats, there are polls that suggest UKIP votes might be playing to Labour.

Here are some basic points.

www.accountancyage.com...

Leaving the EU would mean the UK does not contribute to any of the decisions which affect the Single Market, despite our interaction with it. British business recognises this. Yes, there was an accurate calculation made that being outside the Eurozone would not affect our economy, but such a calculation cannot be made when it comes to the Single Market. Each and every arrangement that would be necessary to access it would have to be painfully negotiated over many years. We would not be allowed leave the EU while enjoying the benefits it offers.

The UK would be cast adrift from future developments in the EU, the largest, most effective trading bloc in history. Why would we go it alone when countries in regions across the world are banding together. Trading blocs such as ASEAN in Asia, MERCOSUR and UNASUR in South America are bringing benefits to member nations.

Britain's relationship with the EU has not always been an easy one, but membership is intrinsic to our economic well-being. Leaving would most certainly damage the UK economy

uk.reuters.com...

(Reuters) - A British exit from the European Union could wreck London's position as the only financial centre to rival New York and isolate the country's economy, research ordered by a lobby group for banks and money managers showed.

Prime Minister David Cameron has promised to renegotiate the terms of Britain's EU membership and hold an "in-out" referendum by the end of 2017 if his Conservatives win a 2015 national election.

But many of the most powerful banks, insurers and money managers in the City of London are increasingly concerned that Cameron's gamble could allow the country's $2.5 trillion (1.48 trillion pounds) economy, the world's sixth largest, to slip out of the EU.

TheCityUK, whose members include asset managers, banks, insurance and accountancy firms, warned that Britain outside the EU would be shorn of influence, less attractive to investors and vulnerable to regulations over which London had no influence.

"This is yet more powerful evidence that the UK pulling out of the EU is the very last thing our country needs. It will kill our hard earned recovery ... We will be left isolated in the margins and our future prosperity will be limited for generations," Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander will say in a speech on Monday, according to advance extracts.

"This rigorous and in depth work clearly shows that leaving the EU will lead to higher prices, higher unemployment, lower growth and lower real wages," Alexander, a member of pro-EU junior coalition party the Lib Dems, will say.

London dominates the $5-trillion-a-day foreign exchange market, trading twice as many dollars as the United States and more than twice as many euros as the entire euro zone, according to the lobby group.

"Continued EU membership is essential to this country's economic wellbeing," said Gerry Grimstone, Chairman of TheCityUK group. "Our research clearly shows that leaving the EU would seriously damage economic growth and jobs in the UK."

A growing number of banks, including Goldman Sachs, Citi and JPMorgan, have warned a "Brexit" could hurt London's position.

Opponents of the EU say Britain would do better to trade with the world from outside the bloc. Opinion polls show voters are split on the issue, with 40 percent wanting to remain in the EU and about the same proportion saying they would opt to leave.

Law firm Clifford Chance said its research showed that under five possible scenarios for Britain leaving the European Union, the financial services sector - which accounts for about a 10th of Britain's gross domestic product - would be harmed.

"The success of the UK financial services industry is to a large extent built on EU Internal Market legislation. To abandon this for some untried, unknown and unpredictable alternative would carry very significant risks," said Malcolm Sweeting, a senior partner of Clifford Chance.

"The UK is a powerful player in the EU and should retain the capacity to push for reform as a member," he said.

While Cameron has pledged to hold a referendum if he wins in 2015, the opposition Labour Party has said any Labour government would be unlikely to hold such a vote this decade.

Labour / UKIP

originally posted by: KROandSOTV

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

Why? why a new thread what good is a new thread why dont answer the question about youre comment that UKIP is the face of the BNP.

I don't think we will get a straight answer out of him..

You see this is the only way to deal with these people... It always goes the same way...

Someone makes some outlandish comment against UKIP... when challeneged to an open discussion about it... they shrink away and cower in the shadows.

UKIP has exactly NOTHING to do with the BNP and anyone who thinks it is completely wrong!



Korg.

originally posted by: KROandSOTV

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

Why? why a new thread what good is a new thread why dont answer the question about youre comment that UKIP is the face of the BNP.

Ok no beefs here guys but look back at the OP. I have given my opinions on the question.

What you are talking about is different. I am happy to talk about why I think your political beliefs are so far wrong it is embarresisng. I understand that you chose to think otherwise.

At what point is it wrong to start another thread?

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: KROandSOTV

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

Why? why a new thread what good is a new thread why dont answer the question about youre comment that UKIP is the face of the BNP.

I don't think we will get a straight answer out of him..

You see this is the only way to deal with these people... It always goes the same way...

Some makes some outlandish comment against UKIP... when challeneged to an open discussion about it... they shrink away and cower int he shadows.

UKIP has exactly NOTHING to do with the BNP and anyone who thinks it is completely wrong!

Korg.

Yeah you got me there, I was just about to go one one way and then some random dude posted a youtube video of another person I have never met and then I was convinced that everything was peachy.

originally posted by: and14263
I've been speaking with a couple of local MPs tonight and the general consensus is that amongst other UKIP victories this year, they will win the next bi-election, with a hefty sum of seats.

We get on to discussing why. One of the contributing factors: the recent child abuse cases of Rochdale, Rotherham and Manchester - all of which were rings of Asian men (portrayed in the British media as Muslims - not sure if they were/are).

These reports of Asian men abusing thousands of children were hidden as prosecutors and whistleblowers did not want to be perceived as racist. This in itself sounds dodgey to me, what would you rather be a racist or someone who knowingly hides child abuse? But that aside, the media is playing the tune UKIP want to hear, these stories (and others e.g. immigration) are bringing in voters, lots of them.

We're asking ourselves why, because when watching the news we should always ask why we are seeing what we are - what is the agenda which comes from those who control the media? (You all know this that's why you're here).

It would seem TPTB are creating another Hitler, who elevated to power when a disillusioned population had nothing to turn to and he hummed the right tune. Nigel Farage and UKIP are answering the assertions of the media led masses - or sheep as some people (and probably I in the past) call them.

Why create another Hitler? Because Hitler had power over his subjects, extreme power: manipulating Generals to carry out genocide, highlighting the psychological effect of group thinking - he had ultimate power. If TPTB control our next Hitler they have us exactly where they want us.

UKIP will take away our freedoms, it will be disguised by telling us they are ridding the country of immigrants, strengthening our borders and heightening national security against Muslims/immigrants but in all this WE WILL LOSE OUR FREEDOMS.

There's little alternative, whoever we vote for but it struck me tonight that TPTB, the media, Rupert Murdoch - they're all creating a new, more likeable Hitler and we will suffer.

And there's nothing we can do to stop it.

Firstly can I say that Mr Farage is nothing like Hitler, and secondly, If you keep refering to the Pakastani groomers as Asian, you will be offending people of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc origin
the child rape gangs from Rotherham where predominantly Men of Pakastani origin it says so in the independant enquiry, it also states that all the girls where white, so they where race related crimes, and nobody wanted to speak out because they didnt want to be called racist, its all there in the report,

Here is a link to the Inquiry, please read it

The issue above is just one of many that have brought UKIP so much success, parties like the BNP and the NF, Britain First, and alike are far to extreme for the majority of indidgenouse White British folk, but I think Farage plays it just right, people are fed up.

Im 40 years old next month, and in my quite short lifetime my Country has changed a lot and not for the better, as a hard working tax payer I dont see anything the EU has done to benefit me, and since I have been old enough to vote I cant remember one Priminister who has delivered.


The poling stations where open tonight in South Yorkshire, as they are voting for a new police commisioner, hopfully UKIPS Jack Clarckson will get the job, and our children in Rotherham will get the justice they deserve.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Korg Trinity

It isn't as simple as that.

Armchair threats are best kept for the armchair.

Meanwhile in the real world, the EU wouldn't allow an easy option for trade. The facts have to be considered.

II don't think you see that if they did anything like that they would be cutting their noses off to spite their faces.... how many companies in the UK are owned by the UK?? I'll give you a hint... not many....

Do you honestly think these mega corporations would allow the EU to suddenly raise their operational costs beyond the point of profitability???

No in the REAL world it is not the politicians that make the decisions concerning trade, it's the mega corporations.

And besides as I have already said... we have a whole world to trade with!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

So what you're saying is what I stated in the first place. You are nothing but the right wing of the Tory party who wants out of Europe.

All the while preying on the fears of the public that have been whipped up by the media frenzy over immigration.

You appeal to some Labour supporters because they are too lazy to dig a bit deeper and realise you are Tories in disguise.

Okay you get your referendum and the people decide to stay in the E.U, then what? You will be a party of defectors, defecting back to the Tory party.

There will be no change to the status quo of the political system in the U.K. Those people you have sucked in to voting for your party, many are poor and will remain so, whilst your rich chums will become richer.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: KROandSOTV

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

Why? why a new thread what good is a new thread why dont answer the question about youre comment that UKIP is the face of the BNP.

I don't think we will get a straight answer out of him..

You see this is the only way to deal with these people... It always goes the same way...

Some makes some outlandish comment against UKIP... when challeneged to an open discussion about it... they shrink away and cower int he shadows.

UKIP has exactly NOTHING to do with the BNP and anyone who thinks it is completely wrong!

Korg.

Yeah you got me there, I was just about to go one one way and then some random dude posted a youtube video of another person I have never met and then I was convinced that everything was peachy.

did I read that right?? you do know that random person you have never met is Nigel Farage right?? You know the leader of the UKIP party that you keep posting hate stuff about...

GeezE!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

The banking industry and other credible research suggests otherwise.

originally posted by: dam00

originally posted by: and14263
I've been speaking with a couple of local MPs tonight and the general consensus is that amongst other UKIP victories this year, they will win the next bi-election, with a hefty sum of seats.

We get on to discussing why. One of the contributing factors: the recent child abuse cases of Rochdale, Rotherham and Manchester - all of which were rings of Asian men (portrayed in the British media as Muslims - not sure if they were/are).

These reports of Asian men abusing thousands of children were hidden as prosecutors and whistleblowers did not want to be perceived as racist. This in itself sounds dodgey to me, what would you rather be a racist or someone who knowingly hides child abuse? But that aside, the media is playing the tune UKIP want to hear, these stories (and others e.g. immigration) are bringing in voters, lots of them.

We're asking ourselves why, because when watching the news we should always ask why we are seeing what we are - what is the agenda which comes from those who control the media? (You all know this that's why you're here).

It would seem TPTB are creating another Hitler, who elevated to power when a disillusioned population had nothing to turn to and he hummed the right tune. Nigel Farage and UKIP are answering the assertions of the media led masses - or sheep as some people (and probably I in the past) call them.

Why create another Hitler? Because Hitler had power over his subjects, extreme power: manipulating Generals to carry out genocide, highlighting the psychological effect of group thinking - he had ultimate power. If TPTB control our next Hitler they have us exactly where they want us.

UKIP will take away our freedoms, it will be disguised by telling us they are ridding the country of immigrants, strengthening our borders and heightening national security against Muslims/immigrants but in all this WE WILL LOSE OUR FREEDOMS.

There's little alternative, whoever we vote for but it struck me tonight that TPTB, the media, Rupert Murdoch - they're all creating a new, more likeable Hitler and we will suffer.

And there's nothing we can do to stop it.

Firstly can I say that Mr Farage is nothing like Hitler, and secondly, If you keep refering to the Pakastani groomers as Asian, you will be offending people of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc origin
the child rape gangs from Rotherham where predominantly Men of Pakastani origin it says so in the independant enquiry, it also states that all the girls where white, so they where race related crimes, and nobody wanted to speak out because they didnt want to be called racist, its all there in the report,

Here is a link to the Inquiry, please read it

The issue above is just one of many that have brought UKIP so much success, parties like the BNP and the NF, Britain First, and alike are far to extreme for the majority of indidgenouse White British folk, but I think Farage plays it just right, people are fed up.

Im 40 years old next month, and in my quite short lifetime my Country has changed a lot and not for the better, as a hard working tax payer I dont see anything the EU has done to benefit me, and since I have been old enough to vote I cant remember one Priminister who has delivered.


The poling stations where open tonight in South Yorkshire, as they are voting for a new police commisioner, hopfully UKIPS Jack Clarckson will get the job, and our children in Rotherham will get the justice they deserve.

Although I accept your sentiment I have absolutley no idea what you comment meant or why said it.

Honestly please explain why you felt the need to add this to an already disjointed conversation.

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: KROandSOTV

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: nonspecific
I would ask you to look deeper in to the UKIP manifesto. I agree that the UK should seperate from the EU but not like this.

Not like what?

You mean not through a democratic Referendum???

How would you propose we do it?



Stop believing all the crap propaganda coming from all the parties that are loosing ground to UKIP!

And I have a copy of the UKIP manifesto... I agree with every point on it. anyone care to ask me I'll gladly share!

Korg.

EU yes i agree but the deeper points I have to disagree.

Such as??

Perhaps I can clear things up for you.

Korg.

I would love you to but as stated many times not on this thread. please make a new one where we can talk this out properly.

Why? why a new thread what good is a new thread why dont answer the question about youre comment that UKIP is the face of the BNP.

I don't think we will get a straight answer out of him..

You see this is the only way to deal with these people... It always goes the same way...

Some makes some outlandish comment against UKIP... when challeneged to an open discussion about it... they shrink away and cower int he shadows.

UKIP has exactly NOTHING to do with the BNP and anyone who thinks it is completely wrong!

Korg.

Yeah you got me there, I was just about to go one one way and then some random dude posted a youtube video of another person I have never met and then I was convinced that everything was peachy.

did I read that right?? you do know that random person you have never met is Nigel Farage right?? You know the leader of the UKIP party that you keep posting hate stuff about...

GeezE!

Korg.

The man I have never met is Nigel Farage.

The dude no one has ever heard of was you. the other guy was me....

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: Korg Trinity

So what you're saying is what I stated in the first place. You are nothing but the right wing of the Tory party who wants out of Europe.

Not at all!

If UKIP were the Conservative party we would tell you that we would give you a referendum then take it back! We would tell you that don't worry about loosing your sovereignty, i'll fight for it back... only to be slapped down like a little poodle!

No We are not the conservative party.

yes we want out of the EU for some very real and pressing reasons...

Namely...

1. Stupendous financial burden of being in the EU for no return
2. No control over our boarders
3. Voters do not get to vote for the people who make law in the country
4. Laws are made from Brussels that suit the needs of the EU even if they are to the UK's detriment
5. No control over our internal benefits system
6. Voters did not have a say if they wanted to be part of the EU in it's current iteration.
7. No control over moneys transferred abroad from within the UK prior to it hitting our economy.
8. Control over budget spend... no more we will give you a rebate if you build this or do that
9. Far less corruption and political maneuvering to worry about

Korg.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Korg Trinity

The banking industry and other credible research suggests otherwise.

Present it so I can pick it apart for you.

Korg.

Hey Korg, sorry if we are arguing as I am pretty sure we have agreed on posts/threads before.

Simple question, Imigrants, muslims.

thoughts please.