Simulated Universe, if it's True What's Next?

There are many great threads debating the issue that me, you, everything is running in some alien supercomputer somewhere. Literally, we are all sims living in a simulated environment. This answers some important physics questions that have been debatable topics since Einstein was at work during WW2. Well I'd like to take the stance in this thread based on the assumption that this theory is true. The reasons for this is I'm having trouble agreeing with this idea, as much as I'd like to.

For those of you not familiar with this idea please check out these awesome threads here at ATS:
Mr Mask - Is reality real? Simulated Universe and Holographic Reality

FlySolo - Checksum discovered in DNA: More evidence of Simulation Theory?

Ajax84 - Hard Evidence for Simulation Hypothesis Uncovered! COMPUTER CODE Discovered Hidden in Superstring Eq

Recently I started to give this topic more thought then I've done in the past several years since I've become aware of it's presence. It really stuck me with the conclusion that - OK, if it is true, everything we've ever done has actually happened in a constructed solid state holographic projection. This reality as we know it is based on a program and to try and not sound like Morpheus, it can be exploited as such.
Well I find this an interesting concept to wrap my brain around, also a feasible one!
I have heard it is technically impossible to fully program OUR universe from within our universe. In order to calculate everything, we would need to know everything, which would require a computer larger then the universe itself to contain. With that said it would mean the programmers of this reality must be somewhere else, not here. Just as if we were trying to create lab simulations they would always fall short in scope and size to our present realities limits. But does that mean we cannot access the programming from inside it?

Which leads me to the big questions, will we ever be able to manipulate our reality to meet our personal demands?
I can't see how this would be possible, just like the Matrix, wouldn't it infect the system as a whole? Imagine if we could alter some minor thing such as the need for air or anything for that matter, it's all relative, instant omnipotence for everyone. I'm concluding if we can change one thing, we will be able to alter anything eventually - it's a program, we just need to learn the code. How can that work? My conspiracy mind keeps going in the direction that the ones that would hold this power, would never let the general public know about it to prevent this. Power and control and all too familiar motive for avoiding subversion.

Also how would it change you if tomorrow we found out this information really was true? (we are all holograms in a hologram)
This is another question I've tried to rationalize to no avail, honestly we would still all be trapped within this reality - real or not, so I don't see how it makes anything any different. Maybe it would answer some questions regarding physics and create a few cool new toys or maybe it would show Jesus was just a really good programmer. I can't fathom how this information would alter society yet. My memories of my childhood are just as real to me as my kids are now, I can't see how anything would change this. Enlighten me if you can!

In essence, I find this topic extremely interesting and am in present search of insightful pertinent information regarding the pros and cons for the existence of a simulated holographic universe. I've already ruled out the argument that it isn't possible for the sake of information gathering here and not to step on the toes of the previous work in other threads. Is there anything else some of you have thought or heard about on this?

Last thought, again I'm assuming our creators are still watching over us in this simulated reality and are similar to us. When they find out we've reached the technological advances to become aware of this situation, what would they do? what would we do? This really starts to merge with a consciousness issue then.

Can't wait to hear some of your thoughts, AB

a reply to: AnteBellum

I am in physics, and I recently uncovered evidences that the universe might be ternary in nature.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Every parts of the universe would be described as having either 3 of these values:

-primeon (-1)
-vacuum (0)
-logoson (+1)

But I must add that if everything is a simulation made of bits, then it doesn't imply that everything is not "real" - for reality is anything that pertains to this simulation.

If something stops pertaining to this simulation, it will simply stop existing, stop being "real".

Thus it changes nothing to our experience wether to call everything "real" or "unreal", because if something is "unreal", it never existed in the first place, thus everything we experience in this universe is "real".

I think it is most probably a romantic notion. It sounds exciting and fits right outside of our current understanding of science. Which is generally refered to as science fiction. People like the notion and pop culture has definately helped fuel the notion. And since it can't be disproven, it will be considered plausible for a long time to come.

Another point, is that it is a convenient way to introduce a new kind of creator or designer. Which...

Everything we have seen points to natural chemistry and physics as being the cause of the beginning of our universe/multiverse.

The check sum "code" we are finding is an inherant part of a self replicating code like DNA. If it wasn't there, it wouldn't work. You will find patterns in any structure.


That being said, it cannot be ruled out completely.

It does open the discussion of cheat codes, or playing a system.

a reply to: AnteBellum

a reply to: swanne

The principles are a bit over my head but the logic I understand and I believe they are going to find out the programing is similar to what you stated some day or refute it all together.

If something stops pertaining to this simulation, it will simply stop existing, stop being "real".

The problem I have is calling one of my SIM characters 'real' or 'alive' yet if we are in a simulated reality where does one cross the line in discerning what is life and what isn't or what is real and what isn't.

That's why consciousness comes into play at the end of my thread, for right now I see animals as conscious entities but not my SIM characters in the computer. Am I being hypocritical by not allowing them the respect I myself may share even though they are in simpler form? It's also prejudicial.

But this is one of those cases where right now believing this true will help me gather more of an understanding about it's effects on me personally and socially. I also wonder if we are in a simulation, then what would be the harm in living in any simulation(once tech meets up with demand). Under definition it would all be as real as reality at some point.

If you absolutely must assume that we are living in a simulated environment, then it is also assumed that we are a self aware A.I. of some sort. The various theories people have come up with, including finding recurring patterns in existence such as how the universe resembles blood vessels or how numbers are affected before large scale events all lead to such a theory holding some water. If you also consider how essentially anything in existence can be digitized or represented on a smaller scale, then this also lends itself to the theory of virtual existence. Perhaps we are being represented on a much smaller scale as well, or are part of a program. Atoms, quarks, dark matter, all of the things that make up our physical form could in fact be bits of digital data, whether quantum or binary. This begs the question though, if we are all A.I. characters in the world, who created us and what maintains us?

Given my background and love of games, I like to rationalize this theory in a similar way:

Instead of aliens creating or lending themselves to the growth of our civilization, we do in fact have a Creator, and since the aliens are supposedly tangible beings like us, they too are part of this grand scheme (whether a game, a virtual reality for another self aware being). God would essentially be the 'player,' or 'watcher' and we are the avatars. This idea lends itself to a similar topic I saw the other day where someone proposed the idea of 'natural humans' vs empty shells which look like humans. Here is that topic if anyone wishes to review it. Just like in a game, it feels as though sometimes we are just more 'awake' than others. It's almost as if we are being 'played.' It's like in GTA V, where you leave a character to his whims, he'll wander around the city until you come back and play him again; to us, our instincts (programming?) are responsible for us getting food (what food we choose being based on our previous experiences... hey, we're super advanced and remember stuff right?) or sleeping, or doing random things (just like the Sims).

So how did we become self aware? I suppose this question can be answered best by saying we are simply programmed that way. With the number of people now searching to break that 'fourth wall,' it's surely more than coincidence or a hiccup in the system. I've been watching an anime called Log Horizon for the last few weeks. In that particular storyline, several thousands of gamers are suddenly caught up in an online MMO, physically and mentally. The show is neat, because it explores what it would be like to actually be inside of a videogame, and still have memories of where you were before. The kicker is, if you die in the game, you slowly lose memories of 'reality' and become ever more entrapped in the game itself. The AI characters in the game also start to become more intelligent and evolve past their traditional one line replies and quest systems. At some point, one of the AI becomes an 'adventurer' (labeled as a human player) and opens up the possibility of whether he would then appear back in reality with the rest of the humans who got trapped in the game. It explores reality in a way that most people don't really think of, getting into metaphysics and the philosophy of the animus. If anyone here watches anime and is interested in this particular subject, Log Horizon is a good watch to ponder the possibilities.

Of course, if it's all a game, simulation, whatever... it can be hacked. How does one go about hacking reality? This question has been asked many times throughout history for sure. What if it would be as simple as opening an interface and seeing what sort of permissions you have? Wouldn't that be wild? I often wonder if there are already people who have essentially done this, such as the people currently in power and manipulating the rest of the world. What is their secret? Did they perhaps stumble upon a process that other people haven't found yet? Is their skill level just higher than others?

Or, perhaps we existed before and dropped ourselves into a virtual reality, and have been stuck in here ever since. Perhaps before then, we put ourselves into a virtual reality and got stuck there too, like a nesting doll. It's like an inception scenario, going ever deeper into ourselves. Where did we first begin? How much intelligence have we lost? How different did we look? Can we ever get back? ...

a reply to: Woodcarver

I think it is most probably a romantic notion.

That's exactly how I really feel. It's sexy right now with the way technology has met up with it.
From the beginning I have the feeling there is something wrong with this whole theory but I just can't put my finger on it. I hoping to try to focus my attention a bit to figure out what is bothering me.

Thats interesting, and an important point.
Simulations are real things. Even if we were part of a computer simulation, those electrons are real, and our perception of them would be too.

a reply to: swanne

a reply to: Septimus

I sometimes wonder if we at some point tried to save humanity by locking it in a supercomputer and sending it to another place to someday tell the tale of our history and existence also.

Your and this are all valid point I might add. I really could be anything behind that universal curtain.
Thank you, that was thought provoking.

a reply to: AnteBellum

That first video was brilliant. He didn't touch on Fourier mathematics that much but I bet he would have if he read more into it.

The parables between digital gaming and "reality" go far and wide. In games like Shenmue where you can walk to an arcade and play other video games, I always get a strong feeling of familiarity because that's what we all are doing anytime we pick up a soccer ball or Playstation controller.

Gaming to me is an almost divine action. I feel a closeness with alignment when I do it in much the same way I feel it when I'm communing with the trees outside. In fact, when I play a game with nature in it, it conveys many of the same benefits. I'll walk around in Skyrim, enjoying the snow and landscape only to be inspired to walk outside and do the same. Then I'll see a cop limping with a knee injury and that inspires me to go back and play Skyrim.

Varying degrees of reality but they are all tributes to one another.

If we were a simulation, I hope things turn out better for the programmers in the end than they did for Luther Lansfeld.

www.youtube.com...

If it is a simulation, then what is it for?

What's next? Transcendence if we/u/i got the point of the exercise or another incarnation should we have failed.

If we're all a simulation, it brings up interesting questions about predestination. If everything about us and the universe around us has been coded, do we truly have free will? Any "player" could possibly interact with us, or even directly control us without us even being aware of it. For us it feels natural, like we made the choice ourselves.

Heck, even as I type this some player could have directed me to sit down and compose a reply.

Here's another interesting thing. What if we're not a simulation, but merely a recording? Perhaps our civilization has already long ended, and we're the last remnants of our species, coded onto an incredibly complex recording as a cautionary tale for whoever finds us as to how we fell, and why.

Perhaps we're being played back right now, being watched by someone who is sitting back in horror, it's mouth agape knowing what is to come but unable to change anything, because we're only a recording.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
If we're all a simulation, it brings up interesting questions about predestination. If everything about us and the universe around us has been coded, do we truly have free will? Any "player" could possibly interact with us, or even directly control us without us even being aware of it. For us it feels natural, like we made the choice ourselves.

Heck, even as I type this some player could have directed me to sit down and compose a reply.

Here's another interesting thing. What if we're not a simulation, but merely a recording? Perhaps our civilization has already long ended, and we're the last remnants of our species, coded onto an incredibly complex recording as a cautionary tale for whoever finds us as to how we fell, and why.

Perhaps we're being played back right now, being watched by someone who is sitting back in horror, it's mouth agape knowing what is to come but unable to change anything, because we're only a recording.

You are playing this out in your head as if we weren't A.I. But, if you think about it, any simulation as grand and detailed as ours would have genuine "artificial" intelligence. An A.I. without any constraints would have free will.

To Christians who are afraid of this theory, I normally remind them that their god made them in his image. That means we aspire to the same things and have the same passions. If our passions as a species are leading us to create another universe, then it only makes sense that the one we are currently in was created in the same fashion by their god. I've convinced a couple of Christians that not only does the Holomovement theory movement play well with creationists, it actually proves creationism. If it were proven we lived in a simulation, spirituality would stand to gain far more validation than pure materialists. It's what I've always believed when I say the someday, science and spirituality will join at an apex and validate one another.

originally posted by: AnteBellum


Which leads me to the big questions, will we ever be able to manipulate our reality to meet our personal demands?

The irony here is that question is the very reason we are now making things like this....



We can't break the laws of Physics in this reality.... so we create our own....





Korg.

a reply to: Cuervo

Sufficiently advanced coding and algorithms would be indistinguishable from True Intelligence.

I mean, there are machines and programs right now that can pass the Turing Test and we don't call them A.I.

I agree my vision was a stretch, but if we're discussing philosophical concepts, the idea of predestination always interested me.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If we're all a simulation, it brings up interesting questions about predestination. If everything about us and the universe around us has been coded, do we truly have free will? Any "player" could possibly interact with us, or even directly control us without us even being aware of it. For us it feels natural, like we made the choice ourselves.

I often think about that also, what makes me, me. Was it a series of events or genetic(coded)?
I often think it's somewhere in between, like the stage is set with the players and abilities on the table but it is up to them to interact.
I find it fascinating that this is the one possibility that answers and adheres all other possibilities at the same time. I don't think there is one other theory that can make this boast, save this one.

Ever since I was a teenager, thinking the universe just went on forever perplexed me. So I have randomly thought about different explanations over the years that made more sense. For some reason, I've always thought the structure of atoms seemed eerily similar to how galaxies worked. Now I by no means am qualified to prove this in my own words but a while back I read this article and still refer back to it. Maybe I'm just crazy! Check it out:

Could a galaxy be an atom?

a reply to: Cuervo

it actually proves creationism

For someone like me that often argues against this, it's funny to agree to it right now!
But it is true in this case.

a reply to: AnteBellum

Even if it's not in your code(genetics), the events that may have shaped you as a person could have been coded to occur that way, at that time, with you there.

a reply to: AnteBellum

The idea we are in a simulation is the God argument, exaggerated, re-hashed and repurposed to fit our technological mindsets. Further, it is Descarte's Evil Demon argument all over again.

The simulation theory breaks the relationship between inventor and its inspiration—reality. Things such as simulations, artificial intelligence, computers etc. always follow reality rather than precede it. They can only ever model reality, never create it. Computers do not think; they simulate thinking. Submarines do not swim; they simulate swimming. Simulations simulate reality, not the other way around.

We cannot run simulations in a simulation like we cannot dream in a dream. We can run simulations in reality.