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originally posted by: Cuervo
I'm sorry but I've yet to hear a Christian successfully consolidate YHWH and Jesus without dragging Jesus through the mud. To say that Jesus is YHWH is to say that Jesus commanded his flock to rape, murder, and infanticide entire peoples. I would never say that to a Christian. Instead, I would rather tell a Christian that I don't believe that Jesus and YHWH are the same. At all.
Unlike us, God knows the future. God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely eradicate the Amalekites. If Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would come back to “haunt” the Israelites again and again. Saul claimed to have killed everyone but the Amalekite king Agag (1 Samuel 15:20). Obviously Saul was lying…just a couple of decades later there were enough Amalekites to take David and his men’s families captive (1 Samuel 30:1-2). After David and his men attacked the Amalekites and rescued their families, 400 Amalekites escaped. If Saul had fulfilled what God had commanded him, this never would have occurred. Several hundred years later, a descendant of Agag, Haman, tried to have the entire Jewish people exterminated (see the book of Esther). So, Saul’s incomplete obedience almost resulted in Israel’s destruction. God knew this would occur, so He ordered the extermination of the Amalekites ahead of time.
In regard to the Canaanites, God commanded, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). The Israelites failed in this mission as well, and exactly what God said would happen occurred (Judges 2:1-3; 1 Kings 11:5; 14:24; 2 Kings 16:3-4). God did not order the extermination of these people to be cruel, but rather to prevent even greater evil from occurring in the future.
I believe as a matter of faith that Jesus is part of the Trinity, God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
originally posted by: borntowatch
originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: borntowatch
No and yes
God is love and gave us free will to use, not abuse.
Then it isn't free-will.
free - not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Yes it is free will, to operate within or outside of the law.God gave us freewill and also the law, we operate by choice to act within or outside the law
Maybe I dont understand your position in its entirety.
Even in Eden, we had the choice between obeying and disobeying.
Disobeying the law brings judgement and exclusion. Judgement.
Some scholars believe that key concepts of Zoroastrian eschatology and demonology influenced the Abrahamic religions. On the other hand, Zoroastrianism itself inherited ideas from other belief systems and, like other "practiced" religions, accommodates some degree of syncretism.
In Zoroastrianism, Ahura Mazda is the beginning and the end, the creator of everything that can and cannot be seen, the Eternal, the Pure and the only Truth. In the Gathas, the most sacred texts of Zoroastrianism thought to have been composed by Zoroaster himself, the prophet acknowledged devotion to no other divinity besides Ahura Mazda.
The earlier Gods and heroes existed and had these traits, rendering Jesus run of the mill and uninteresting in a long line of Gods. Or, somehow the earlier stories are myths, but not Jesus, and God in creating this Jesus story lacked any imagination. -Don Baker (in Atheist Experience #798)
originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Free will - God does not intervene. (there are exceptions) He rules over heaven, earth and hell and all in heaven and hell do obey his EVERY command. He allows free will not only to man but also those in heaven and hell. Legal rights in heaven and hell - they must be obeyed. His will be done, in heaven, on earth and in hell - something that we do not understand it its entirety. ALL demons and angels obey God's commands.
Mankind can disobey God's law but it comes with punishment.
originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
About free will. Let's look at the story of Moses and the Plagues of Egypt. Every time God tells Moses to go ask Pharaoh to let his chosen people go, he hardens Pharaohs heart against him. This obviously manipulates Pharaohs free will to choose and because his heart was hardened against the Lord he denies Moses. Then God proceeds to punish him for it and one of those punishments included killing all the first born of Egypt.
And what about the strong delusion where God bluntly says he shall make those who don't accept his love and truth, believe lies. Followed by their damnation.
Just what kind of racket is the big guy running?
The whole point of the Old Testament is not to say how wonderful the tribe of Israel was, it explained how poorly Israel acted, most of the time.
The Old Testament makes Israel look evil, except very few redeeming actions by very few people, occasionally.
originally posted by: AlephBet
Yes. From the foundation of the universe, this was true. We cannot disagree that we learn of the Father only in the New Testament. This is a fact. We cannot disagree that the Father has a Son. This is a matter of fact from the New Testament. We cannot disagree that the Son of God was the template for everything that exists. Colossians 1 outlines this. We cannot disagree that there is a feminine aspect to God's image (Ruach Elohim). This is a matter of fact from the linguistics of Genesis 1 and the very mother of the Aleph Mem (strong water). She was over the waters in Genesis 1. The Son comes from the same template as our own families. God works in patterns.
originally posted by: AlephBet
The creation of Yahweh is fallen. Is there a disagreement on this point?
originally posted by: AlephBet
Blood was shed on the cross for the remission of sins.
originally posted by: AlephBet
Again, this is what God demanded on Genesis 9. Again, this is why Yahweh had to be the one and one one that could do the task.
originally posted by: AlephBet
He created the snake. Genesis 3 makes this evident.
originally posted by: AlephBet
When baptized, Jesus received a blessing from both the Spirit (Dove / Peace) and the Father (Love and acknowledgement of the status of Son).
originally posted by: AlephBet
What is unclear about God requiring this of the one that made the Snake?
originally posted by: AlephBet
He must defeat his enemy.
originally posted by: AlephBet
We all create our own enemy in life. Defeating it is salvation from it. We can't do it. Yahweh must be the one that kills it out in himself first.
originally posted by: AlephBet
It's the pattern we follow to develop. In the end, we are Yahweh (Body / Church) with the one that overcomes as the head. Again, it's all in the Word.
originally posted by: AlephBet
I can't see a single place that we disagree.
originally posted by: windword
I thought the whole point of YOUR thread was to talk about how wise and wonderful Yahweh is/was.
I say any god that orders his people to do his killing for him is an evil god. Any god that tells his people that, as a reward for doing his killing, they will receive worldly wealth and sexual pleasure, is an evil god.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Yeah mostly on this.
Though I accept the feminine side of the Trinity I am some what reluctant to identify the Holy Spirit as feminine. The Holy Spirit is aspirit as such, so I cant see a feminine quality as clearly.
Yes fallen and caused by man, evil came in to the world, so a law had to come in to the world to guide man.
Yes only God could do it, what exactly, I am a little confused about what it is.
God has no enemies, God is not threatened by anything, satan is the enemy of humanity
Our enemy is sin, what separates us from God. We dont create our enemies, sin entered the world at the fall. Its already there/here.
We cant defeat it, at all, ever. Jesus could not defeat it for us, He could defeat it for Himself, then offer Himself as the atonement.
Yahweh never had sin, He was a judge, dispensing justice
Where is the sin in Yahweh
I am not Yahweh, I have sin, I cant defeat it. Death will bring an end of sin in my life, only death.
I cant see how we the Church/body is Yahweh
Now please explain if you dont mind the worldly wealth and sexual pleasure. I dont see it so clearly as you do.
originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: AlephBet
Your entire premise implies that you have to know ancient greek and hebrew to understand the Bible. So everyone for the past 400 years is just S.O.L. right? I don't buy it.
20 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
4 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not:
5 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
7 Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God.
8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the Lord which sanctify you.
9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.
19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.
20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.
21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless.
22 Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.
originally posted by: windword
Are you kidding? Do you really want me to post all the Old Testament ## about raiding cities, killing everyone except the virgins women, and taking all the cities wealth (booty) to divide up?
Really? Just say so, and I'll go get the passages and post them for ya.