NASA is being forced by the US government to fly a mission to Europa

a reply to: coastlinekid

Logic would dictate that a "weapon" the military reveals to the public is not their most advanced version of that weapon... that would not be prudent... as Bush Sr. would say...

Logic would dictate that when an aircraft is going to be going into active service there is no point in trying to keep it secret.

Here's a question. Drones are very effective. Are they "more advanced" than the B2? Or just better suited to the task?

a reply to: Phage

I'm going to have to disagree again.

I think it would be more honest if you just admit that non of us really know enough to make claims like that.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: coastlinekid

Logic would dictate that a "weapon" the military reveals to the public is not their most advanced version of that weapon... that would not be prudent... as Bush Sr. would say...

Logic would dictate that when an aircraft is going to be going into active service there is no point in trying to keep it secret.

Here's a question. Drones are very effective. Are they "more advanced" than the B2? Or just better suited to the task?

There is experimental aircraft constantly being developed you can't deny it.

a reply to: onequestion

There is experimental aircraft constantly being developed you can't deny it.

Did I?

a reply to: onequestion

I think it would be more honest if you just admit that non of us really know enough to make claims like that.

Since it would require "unknown science" quite the contrary.
Unless you can come up with an example of "unknown science" being applied, ever, there is no reason to suspect it is or has been.

a reply to: Phage

How about mainstream science and what would you be basing this assumption on?

Your assuming there isn't science that's kept hidden from the mainstream community?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: onequestion

There is experimental aircraft constantly being developed you can't deny it.

Did I?

I'm making a statement not asking or implying you've denied it.

a reply to: onequestion

How about mainstream science and what would you be basing this assumption on?

Your assuming there isn't science that's kept hidden from the mainstream community?

Where do you think science comes from?

Any examples of the military using any "unknown science?" Ever?

a reply to: onequestion

I'm making a statement not asking or implying you've denied it.

Can I play too?
You can't deny that the Earth orbits the Sun.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: onequestion

How about mainstream science and what would you be basing this assumption on?

Your assuming there isn't science that's kept hidden from the mainstream community?

Where do you think science comes from?

Any examples of the military using any "unknown science?" Ever?

So your willing to bet on the assumption that there isn't science that's unknown to the mainstream science community that's kept out of the eyes of the public?

You don't k ow for sure?

a reply to: onequestion

So your willing to bet on the assumption that there isn't science that's unknown to the mainstream science community that's kept out of the eyes of the public?

Yup.
No scientific principles that are unknown to mainstream science are being applied to current military or other technologies.

a reply to: eisegesis

Sorry, I don't get it.... NASA is a part of government and gets its funding from government and employs government employees, so how is it being forced? It is following policy directed by Congress, as has always been the case. Personally, I think Congress is a collection of a great number of idiots with a few sane people mixed in, but that's about it. Nevertheless, NASA doing as directed.... when was that not the case?

will never happen

probably just to boost Interstellar ticket sales

Personally I would rather see Europa explored than more missions to Mars. In fact there are several planets and planetoids and moons I would rather be seeing us explore via rover than further missions to Mars.

Not that Mars isn't a decent goal to colonize at some point but it seems to me the private sector can chase that for a while while NASA should keep searching for signs of life. Finding out there is even the most rudimentary forms of life elsewhere in our solar system would be monumental.

NASA were pretty much forced into flying to the moon by the US government - it was not on their list of things to do right then, at least in the timescale they were given.

The main difference is that they were given the money.

a reply to: eisegesis

Interesting....

Maybe this is what its going to take to force NASA to do its job. Although I would prefer to see a law requiring NASA to spend more time looking at interesting features on Mars.

I wonder what the chances are of getting a law passed that requires NASA to release images as they get them and not 4 months after the fact.

Finally - Why stop at just Europa? Why not draft a law that not only sets major priorities for NASA, but includes the appropriate level of funding so they can be done.

originally posted by: jaxnmarko
a reply to: eisegesis

Sorry, I don't get it.... NASA is a part of government and gets its funding from government and employs government employees, so how is it being forced? It is following policy directed by Congress, as has always been the case. Personally, I think Congress is a collection of a great number of idiots with a few sane people mixed in, but that's about it. Nevertheless, NASA doing as directed.... when was that not the case?

NASA has other projects and lot's of responsibilities. The problem here is that the government doesn't give them enough money to do it.

In order to achieve the directive of congress with their current budget they will have to put certain things on hold. In a way they are being forced to Europa, even though they all want to go there anyway.

Imagine someone hiring you to manage a facility under budget. You have been hired with a specific skill set and can't wait to start exploring different ways to increase efficiency and production. The following week your boss comes in and basically tells you what he wants done.

Congress wants blood from a stone. Just another example of how planetary science takes a back seat. Maybe we can afford a trip to Mars after their carbon tax kicks in.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Personally I would rather see Europa explored than more missions to Mars. In fact there are several planets and planetoids and moons I would rather be seeing us explore via rover than further missions to Mars.

Not that Mars isn't a decent goal to colonize at some point but it seems to me the private sector can chase that for a while while NASA should keep searching for signs of life. Finding out there is even the most rudimentary forms of life elsewhere in our solar system would be monumental.

I know, the excitement of drilling through the ice for the first time would be heart stopping.

I can only hope there are enough space geek dreamers with deep pockets out there. Being a costly venture, private companies have been slow to gain momentum but the competition has been fierce. If they all just had a group hug and merged assets we might get there real soon.

a reply to: eisegesis

NASA has other projects and lot's of responsibilities. The problem here is that the government doesn't give them enough money to do it.

NASA put in a proposal to fund a project and Congress funded the project. NASA undoubtedly put in many proposals - some that got funded and some that did not get funded. I'm sure it was a bit more complicated than that; some scientist had to convince other scientists that it was a good idea; then they had to convince the NASA admin that it was worthwhile talking to Congress about it. Then the NASA admin had to convince enough of the 'right' folks on the various budget committees that it was worth while, then those committee members had to actually get it through the train wreck that is Congress and past all the sequester/shut down foo-far-raw and o it in a way that the President would sign it.

That is the way the NASA funding works. Congress doesn't just wake up one day and say "Hey! Obama wants to go to Mars so lets screw him up and go to Europa instead; here ya go NASA, have a shed load of money - now get 'er dun". That is nonsensical; as much as Congress is contrarian, it just isn't how the world works.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: onequestion

So your willing to bet on the assumption that there isn't science that's unknown to the mainstream science community that's kept out of the eyes of the public?

Yup.
No scientific principles that are unknown to mainstream science are being applied to current military or other technologies.

Ha ha. very loose words me thinks. Known scientific principles, at their most basic are the foundations and building blocks. There's the possibility for massive, broad, exotic applications that can have 'known principles' as a genesis. A very safe bet statement. Speaks volumes.