Dead babies in Winnipeg storage unit 'tragic beyond belief'

a reply to: Domo1

So those three telltales aren't real? I'm talking the wetting the bed, setting fires and harming animals. I've read if a young person exhibits two of those three, they are at severe risk. All three, pretty much a given. I think, though, the logic there is this: all serial killers do two out of three of those behaviors. But not everyone who does two out of three, or all three, probably do not necessarily become dangerous offenders.

Still, there are, actually, some fairly set, narcissistic and sociopathic profiles that are fairly predictive….
Narcissistic sociopaths are said to be willing to do just about anything as long as they don't get caught.

Sadly, this is where I live and just to clear things up this has nothing to do with kidnapping and murdering babies.
There have been no stories that I have heard of babies going missing and I watch the news daily.

As messed up as this case is, it seems to be as simple as a messed up individual disposing of unwanted or miscarried babies in a very inhumane way. Ages haven't been released of them so I am just assuming they were unwanted or miscarried but maybe they were killed, we don't know yet.

Personally, parent or not, as a human being this is a despicable act and I hope this POS woman and anyone else involved gets what she deserves.

Here's a link to the local news story which has pretty much all the same info as the other links already posted.
Woman accused of concealing infants defrauded senior: court records

Woman charged with concealing remains of six dead babies found in storage locker

a reply to: Sabiduria

I hope you know I wan't trying to be combative.

That's not entirely true. If a child is abusing/torturing/killing animals, that can be a warning sign that there is some sort of issue going on.

Well yeah, it's a warning sign but it's not a guarantee. So if that's warning sign, and so is a crappy crappy life at home you've got millions of kids that may become serial killers. There are a ton of warning signs. The problem is we don't have a definitive way of spotting serial killers. That's all I'm saying. You can't take one kid that enjoyed blowing up frogs and say he's destined to start killing people. You can't say that one kid who was abused is going to start killing. Serial killers are a VERY different breed and I've yet to see anything that definitively marks them as a child.

Yes I know not every killer is a psychopath just like not every sociopath is a psychopath.

The UCR screwed that up and now psychopaths and sociopaths are under the same branch. Or at least they were the last time I looked. It bugs me that people use the terms interchangeably. It also bugs me when someone who does something out of the norm they are labelled a sociopath or a psychopath. I see so much of that in the Posse Comitatus sub forum. Psychopathic or sociopathic cops. I've seen people call someone a sociopathic psychotic.

I didn't say counseling would serve as a deterrent. I said counseling is important because we aren't properly taught how to deal with our emotions and we are constantly changing

I'm responding to this

We would be able to recognize children who could one day end up down that road and provide them with counseling and other support

My point was that future serial killers aren't yet identifiable. So until we can recognize those children, what are we supposed to do? Put every child with a serial killer marker in counseling? There are way too many possible indicators. Bad home life, high intelligence, low intelligence, every race, every creed, both sexes...

When did serial killer become synonymous with signature killer? When I was in school and studying Criminal Justice (and dating a woman with a degree in forensic psychology) a serial killer was anyone who killed 3 or more people with a cooling off period in between. Like gangbangers. We called people like Bundy signature killers. Do you agree with the change? I don't. You seem well versed and bright so I would love your opinion.

That's probably cult related.

those poor little babies this broke my heart in a million pieces reading this!
I hope who ever did do it suffers for taking their chance at life away.

I am thinking who ever did it gave birth to them or was close to who did do it especially if there is no reports of any missing newborns, a missing newborn is pretty major and would have a lot of coverage...

I'm assuming all of you are against abortions ? I mean doctors perform late term abortions and get paid for it...so I can see where it would be a small step for a woman to start thinking that she can do her own and justify it in her own mind. Can't you??? I mean when we marginalize the unborn...the living are not far behind. I don't want to get going on the abortion issue but it is pretty easy for most people to see the natural progression of such practices.

It is called neonaticide.
Here is some interesting information on the psychological influences observed
ajp.psychiatryonline.org...

www.gargaro.com...

Some further reading:
www.smh.com.au...

Perinatal risk factors for neonaticide and infant homicide: can we identify those at risk?

Here's a similar case, in which a woman had and killed 6 babies, whose bodies she hid in the cellar-
www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: Bluesma

Good stuff. Thanks. But...

...it could be months before they know who the infants were, how they died and how long they had been inside.

My first thought when I heard this news was about the slave sex trade and a pimp disposing of unwanted "byproducts." I considered the possibility these babies were marketed to pervs and killed by them. ....All scary thoughts but the fact is, we don't know whose children these are, if they have the same mother or anything....

Maybe she was a foster parent too, and the system didn't check up on them? And she's been collecting foster pay?.... Just thinking outside the box....but she probably gave birth to them.

a reply to: soficrow

That was my first thought too. The sex slave industry is a HUGE problem, and when the girls get pregnant they take their babies and use them as leverage over the girls. It's disgusting. It's also a shame more people don't realize how big of an issue sex slavery is.

Either way, heartbreaking story.

My first guess was abortion by an unwanted teenage mother or someone really young.... but multiple bodies.. man more people must be involved... disgusting.

a reply to: Sabiduria

It's sad. We all are sympathetic to the lives lost of these babies.

But people who do abortions don't consider them children or living beings.

a reply to: beezzer

To say that everyone who has an abortion doesn't care is a terrible assumption.

My older sister had to have an abortion because she accidentally got pregnant back when her and an ex were hard into drugs. She knew the baby would be messed up from the drugs she did and she knew at that if the baby daddy would find out he would try to kill them both. That doesn't mean that she didn't hate herself for what she had to do. Every year since then her body naturally and subconsciously morns the loss.

originally posted by: Bluesma
This happens all over the world. Women who repeatedly get pregnant, keep it a secret, and kill the baby when it is born and keep/hide the baby. A while ago a woman was found here to have kept a couple newborn corpses in her freezer. Her husband hadn't even known about it.

It is a psychological disfunction, some claim to be similar to Munchausen by proxy, but I think the differences are significant.
I listened to a doctor on the radio one day that was doing research on these cases, trying to understand the mechanisms at work in these womens heads....

She said the full recognition of the baby as a separate individual just doesn't happen- they don't want to acknowledge that, and go into total denial. As if these babies were just parts of her own body, and holding on to them is something like when you keep a lock of your hair or your baby teeth, as a souvenir of a period of your life. She said most of these women continually assert- "it is mine, it is a part of me, I have the right to keep it." (once they've been caught and pressed to acknowledge what they've done).

In some ways, it is a perverted and extreme form of maternalism, in which the mother refuses to let go and separate from her offspring.

Same argument used FOR abortion by many women. Killing the fetus is legal for the mother before 20 weeks gestation or so. After that they may be charged with murder for doing the same thing.

Just a thought but, is it possible to have that many stillborns?

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Sabiduria

I hope you know I wan't trying to be combative.

I apologize if I too come across as being combative, I've got a wicked cold right now so I can get cranky when I'm not meaning to.

Well yeah, it's a warning sign but it's not a guarantee. So if that's warning sign, and so is a crappy crappy life at home you've got millions of kids that may become serial killers. There are a ton of warning signs. The problem is we don't have a definitive way of spotting serial killers. That's all I'm saying. You can't take one kid that enjoyed blowing up frogs and say he's destined to start killing people. You can't say that one kid who was abused is going to start killing. Serial killers are a VERY different breed and I've yet to see anything that definitively marks them as a child.

I know it's not always a guarantee but it is a red flag. If we are properly paying attention to the children (which takes a community effort) we would be able to see if a child is in a crappy environment and remove them from it ((or help improve it)). We may not have definitive ways because really, every serial killer is different and with human behavior, anything can set anyone off.

With that being said, I still think it is massively beneficial for a child to be in counseling. Everyone should be. Counseling has received such a negative stigma with it, you must be insane if you go to counseling, yet in order to achieve a healthy state of being (especially if you had some issues growing up) counseling is needed. Like I said, we are always changing and it's good to touch base with a professional to make sure everything is going good. With most of us not being taught how to properly deal with our emotions, especially anger and sadness, counseling is a great way to help us learn how to deal and how to cope. It can teach us about how to have healthy boundaries with family & friends (especially if you come from a co-dependent family)

We would be able to recognize children who could one day end up down that road and provide them with counseling and other support

My response to this is tied in with the last response.

The UCR screwed that up and now psychopaths and sociopaths are under the same branch. Or at least they were the last time I looked. It bugs me that people use the terms interchangeably. It also bugs me when someone who does something out of the norm they are labelled a sociopath or a psychopath. I see so much of that in the Posse Comitatus sub forum. Psychopathic or sociopathic cops. I've seen people call someone a sociopathic psychotic.

That bugs me too. I can admit when I was younger I didn't know the difference but my fiance helped me know the difference. (His Dad is a Sociopath. Confirmed by a behavioral expert) It's where I also learned about co-dependent relationships in families ((my family is co-dependent)). When I telling my Mom one time about my fiances Dad and how he was a sociopath the first words out of her mouth was "I really doubt he's a killer" I did a mental facepalm and told my Mom there is a difference between the two and how not every sociopath isn't a psychopath and how not all psychopaths are killers.

There is a member on here who I chatted a lot with during the summer and he gets called a sociopath and psychopath so often because he is blunt and calls the b.s when he sees it. He started to believe that he was at least a sociopath and I told him with the information he has provided me with and from our conversations that it didn't sound like he was a sociopath.

Now I'm not expert on the field, I just have always found human behavior fascinating. Maybe that's because I came from a messed up home and didn't understand why they acted that way. I also didn't understand how my sisters could go down the same path when they knew where it lead. I've since taken a sociology class in 2006 and have been reading articles on human behavior. I'm also currently in counseling and so I've picked up lots of information there and had a lot of the stuff I knew, backed up by a professional.

My point was that future serial killers aren't yet identifiable. So until we can recognize those children, what are we supposed to do? Put every child with a serial killer marker in counseling? There are way too many possible indicators. Bad home life, high intelligence, low intelligence, every race, every creed, both sexes...

Yes every child in counseling, not just ones who raise red flags. ((Most of this was also covered in a response above, but I thought I would just say it again so you don't have to scan back up))

When did serial killer become synonymous with signature killer? When I was in school and studying Criminal Justice (and dating a woman with a degree in forensic psychology) a serial killer was anyone who killed 3 or more people with a cooling off period in between. Like gangbangers. We called people like Bundy signature killers. Do you agree with the change? I don't. You seem well versed and bright so I would love your opinion.

Honestly, I was unaware that serial killers had become synonymous with signature killers. I think that would probably have happened within the last 10yrs or so because of tv show dramas like Criminal Minds and CSI. People don't pay enough attention to all the details that are being told ((if they are being told correctly to being with, Criminal Minds doesn't seem to be too far off)) in the shows and just focus on the gist of it. It's like the whole sociopath/psychopath confusion.

I think it is important that people know the difference between a serial killer and signature killer. They shouldn't be mixed together in the same group, it would be like mixing.....a homosexual with a pedophile. They aren't one in the same, they are different. ((Sorry it was the only example I could think of off the top of my head with this nasty cold I have. Hopefully it'll be better for the next OOTB show))

I also think because people get tired of there being so many slightly differences that it's better to just toss them under the same name/group

a reply to: Maxpower0001

You would have to have something pretty messed up with you but it is possible. I just don't know the odds.

a reply to: Shana91aus

Maybe it's someone who goes and collects unwanted babies from mothers.

a reply to: HarryJoy

I'm for abortions if it is:
A) Having the baby will kill you
B) The baby will have huge medical issues and it would be more humane to kill it than to let it suffer
C) You were raped

I'm against abortions if:
A) You can't be bothered to use keep your legs closed if you don't want a baby
B) You can't be bothered to take preventative measures like birth control, condoms & spermicidal lube if you don't want a baby

The bottom line is:
When abortions were illegal, women would still abort their babies, it was just done in dangerous settings/ways.

Conclusion: I'd rather there be a safe place to do it than nothing at all.

originally posted by: Sabiduria
a reply to: beezzer

To say that everyone who has an abortion doesn't care is a terrible assumption.

My older sister had to have an abortion because she accidentally got pregnant back when her and an ex were hard into drugs. She knew the baby would be messed up from the drugs she did and she knew at that if the baby daddy would find out he would try to kill them both. That doesn't mean that she didn't hate herself for what she had to do. Every year since then her body naturally and subconsciously morns the loss.

Look, I get it. There are some terrible things that happen. But we live in a society now where people state that growing babies are nothing but cells, tumors, lumps of flesh. People/society has become inured to abortions, our society teaches that it is not a big deal. Our society has created an environment here people don't look at pre-natal or neo-natal infants as viable. Just look at the late-term abortion proponents!
We have a society now that will go to war when ISIS kills a journalist yet turns a blind eye and a deaf ear to the millions that are aborted.

So whatever the circumstances, whomever was responsible was a vile human being, but society has to take some of the credit for this.