Do you live as Jesus did?

According to Christian theology and tradition Jesus lived a sinless life because if that weren't the case he wouldn't have been an acceptable sacrifice in God's eyes.

With that in mind Christians also believe that sin is inherent to the human condition (let's ignore the fact that Jesus was considered fully human). If sin is inherent and unavoidable then living as Jesus did is impossible because Jesus was sinless, and as we know humans are sinful from birth according to the bible.

If living as Jesus did is impossible (according to Christian theology), then why does John say this in one of his epistles:

1 John 2
6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

He says that those who claim to live in God MUST live as Jesus did, which implies leading a sinless life.

If sin is unavoidable according to Christians then how can they claim to live in God? Am I missing something here?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, not really.

"It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me";
Galatians ch2 v20

a reply to: DISRAELI

Meaning that once Christ is in you you no longer commit sin, correct?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Meaning that what we do matters less than what Christ does.

a reply to: DISRAELI

That's ignoring the verse in the OP though. What does John mean by living as Jesus did?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You chose a modern paraphrase translation, and paraphrases always risk being inaccurate.
The more literal translation of that verse is "ought to walk in the same way in which he walked".
I use the RSV, but I can double-check that with the Greek.
OK. We walk (set out in the right direction). Christ arrives.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I see "walking as someone else walked" as having the same meaning as "living as they did".

How did Jesus walk or live? Without sin. How can we walk or live as he did if sin is unavoidable?

Well, if you were to define Sinless as never..........Oh oh, I have just about done everything. I suppose I could be used as an example of what not to do.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
What's wrong with seeing it as "along the same path"?
We can be doing that even if we can't get to the end on our own.
One of the effects of being "in Christ" is that we get carried.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I do try but as I am human I fail every day. I don't want to hurt others in any way as when I see others I see Jesus staring back at me and I know that if He died for my sins he surely died for everyone else's and so why would I so deliberately throw it back in His face. He also commanded us to love another and I try my best to do that.

I will never be sinless but He has taken my place. When God looks at us He sees Jesus's perfection covering us.

My whole focus on life is to keep Jesus at the forefront of my mind in all I do and it tears me up inside to know I have hurt others. To hurt others is to hurt His heart. All are tied together and whether a believer or not I know where Jesus would be: helping others and loving them. Love is the greatest thing we can do.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Well for starters living a sinless life is far removed from the human condition (according to Christian theology), so someone committing sins every day can not be on the same path as someone who doesn't. That's like saying someone who is in jail for murder walked in the same way as someone who donated his time and charity to the family of one of the murderers' victims.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Maybe I can add my take on that: re: living a sinless life is far removed from the human condition (according to Christian theology)...

Even Mother Theresa sinned. There is not one perfect human. There was only ever one perfect human and that was Jesus. Because he was perfect and never sinned he was able to stand in our place of judgement and allowing the bridge for us to access the Father. Again, when God looks at us he sees the blood of Jesus covering us, perfecting us, only because as Disraeli said: he carries us.

And that's what's so simple about Christianity but people get so hung up on the levels of sin and works of good, etc. Sin is sin and every bit as a non-part of God that whether I were to steal gum from the store or kill my neighbour it still counts as sin.

I personally don't think Jesus was sinless (but what defines a sin?). There is at least one example of something he did that I believe would qualify as a sin, or at the very least, wrong. I refer to his outburst at the temple.

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Mathew 21:12-13

It may not seem like a big deal but coming from the perfect Son of God, isn't it? Would it be wrong of me to find a church that misuses its tithing, throw the plate on the ground when it's passed to me then continue to knock over the pulpit and turn all the chairs upside down? If I shouted, "This is the house of the Lord, and a place for prayer! You leaders of the church are thieves stealing from the Lords flock!" would it make it ok? Maybe it wouldn't count as a sin because my heart would be in the right place?

The story of the money changers in Mathew is followed by the story of the barren fig tree. In this tale a fig tree gets in the way of Jesus, so he caused it to wither and die. Not necessarily a sin but certainly a unnecessary act. His disciples are marveled and he tells them,

Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Mathew 21:21-22

This is one example of the many claims Jesus makes about the power of prayer. I understand that there are other verses about how prayer really works. So why is Jesus misrepresenting the power and capabilities of prayer, and prayer in general? Was he lying? Either way passages like the one above cause confusion about prayer, imo, so would that not be considered a stumbling block? Aren't we supposed to avoid placing stumbling blocks before our brothers?

Just some of my thoughts on the subject.

ETA: If you believe in the trinity, and that Jesus is also God, there is a whole OT of issues I'd raise (see my morality thread).

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The one born of the God will not continue in sin. We are born blank slates, with a hardwired devine law coded in. We learn the ways of the world and we get caught up in them. So as children we will comment sin in our ignorance.

However we are called to reach an age of reason. A time where a discerning mind turns away from sin and makes the connection to the one who was without sin.

The message in the bible is always to overcome sin. The message of the church is that sin will overcome you.

The doctrine of Original Sin contradicts. The true Light shines down a path of perfection, since he is without sin.

I can't say I have overcome my reactions to some things so anger is with me at times, but I know I am walking in the Light. And I run the race.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

In the eyes of humans, yes, but in the eyes of God, maybe not. There are plenty who will find out that they have called His name He does not know them as they never really knew Him and that will apply to all, believers and unbelievers alike.

You can never really know until the end whether or not you are walking in His way. You can only do your best to follow.

a reply to: ccseagull

I don't mean any disrespect here but this is deflecting the issue. If we must "walk" as Jesus did then him carrying us is not walking at all, which negates the verse entirely.

If we must "live" as he did then that would mean sinlessly, because Jesus lived a sinless life.

A murderer or thief is not walking the same path or living in the same way as a saint. Walking in sin is not the same as walking without sin, living a sinful life is not the same as living a sinless life.

If Christ lives within true Christians does that mean Christ sins every time they do? Or is it a case of taking no blame but all the glory?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1 It means that he walked in the spirit and not the flesh. The flesh is sin. The thought that his flesh was sinless and that is why he fullfilled the cross is wrong imo. Once you walk in the spirit then you have accepted GOD and when you sin at that point you have to cleanse yourself. It is a process that takes on many forms in the bible and i think the bride of soloman and what she went through can show alot of what is happening when we live the way we do in the us. It is not far from the reason muslims wear head dressings because even thoughts of the flesh can bring one into a connection in ones mind the connection is just the same as laying ones seed and links you to the person. Cut the ties and walk in the spirit.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

don't mean any disrespect here but this is deflecting the issue. If we must "walk" as Jesus did then him carrying us is not walking at all, which negates the verse entirely.

Why is it that those words are often used to preface disrespectful things?

Christ is the sin offering. In the Old Testement Convenant of the Law, when the law was transgressed, there existed an elaborate system of offerings and sacrifices to wash away the transgression or sin.

With the New Testament and Christ, he is the Lamb whose sacrifice is the ultimate sin offering. By accepting his Grace and walking His path, you are covered by His blood, forgiven your transgressions.

But those who treat it as a "Get Out of Sin Free" card are also those who say they believe and may be setting themselves up for this:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Matthew 7: 21-23

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I appreciate your comment about no disrespect. Thanks!

I don't mean to deflect the issue. Perhaps it's just the way I see it. I honestly in my heart and mind don't think it's possible to live sinlessly. One can try but that one millisecond thought that jumps into your head perhaps viewing your neighbour's new car, or some hot thing walking down the street or even thinking about how to make more money. Everything is sinful no matter how you look at it. I don't mean it how it sounds, what I mean is that our thoughts are constantly flying about and there is no way to control them so that you think before you think. If you know what I'm trying to say.

There are also times when I have done something from the depths of my heart to help someone and inadvertently somehow in doing so I've hurt someone else.

We can try until we're blue in the face to not sin but I don't see this as ever being possible. And so by accepting Jesus as our Saviour we are saying we realize he died for our sins and our new heart doesn't want to sin anymore. But again, due to human nature, we just do, sometimes without knowing we've sinned. So asking for forgiveness and repenting (which simply means changing our ways) is all we can. And to rest assured that Jesus has covered our sin. I don't see that as an easy way out or in any way permission to continue sinning - we simply rest in Him.

It doesn't make HIs actions invalid in any way and in fact the sacrifice he did for us, the torturing, the mocking, the whole absence from God in that one moment that Jesus, "Why have you forsaken me?" THAT one moment of him being cut off from God - if you are the son of God I can't even imagine the agony that must have caused. And so every time I sin it doesn't make Jesus' act any less worthy or tarnish it in any way.

It doesn't mean Christ sins every time we do. But it does mean that HIs supreme forgiveness by God has forgiven us. And we should not take no blame. We should account for our sins to God. When I sin I feel horrible inside and feel like such a failure and so tiny and ugly. But when I ask for forgiveness and repent I start anew.

I hear what you're saying about a thief or murderer not walking the same path as a saint BUT we were all at the same unforgiven state at one point. But yes, we still sin. Sin is the complete opposite of God and there's no room for sin in his life because He is all love and goodness. Dark does not live in light. And so to him a large sin is as equal to any other sin. If Hitler had asked for forgiveness God would have one so. The same method applies to all humans. None is worthy but one and that is Christ. And so the only way to God is through Christ.

I feel like I"m rambling and hope I'm not, hope I am being clear in explaining how I understand it. And then I rest my faith in Him who carries me. When we are all done with this human life we will be clean and our old being done away with. We will be sinless when we live with God.