Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: OrionsGem

videographer

I literally laugh out loud every time that happens...THERE MAY NEVER BE ANY CONCRETE TESTABLE PROOF OF ALIEN OR UFO ENCOUNTERS...yet people still will come to your thread and ask for hard proof, and hard evidence.

Its simply laughable.

So basically the belief that UFO's are alien in nature is a matter of faith.

Throughout the years nothing has even come close to being proven to be of extraterrestrial nature.

You would think someone, somewhere would have it, but nothing..why is that?

I believe there UFO's out there in words only...something unidentified in the air that no one at that time could make it out due to being mistaken, wishful thinking..etc.



The ancient aliens garbage also is laughable....aliens were there to help ancient man then one day said...forget it.

Never left anything behind to say..it was us....or that we helped..etc. People say..well they did this and with our machines today we would not be able to do this....really...do they forget it was a different time and tools and methods were used that have been forgotten about...that we as a species today would not survive back in those days.

Why the alien not out in the open like they were supposedly back in the past...why go into hiding all of a sudden?

Maybe because we finally understand myths and fantasies were common amongst out past people.

You choose to believe based of faith...me and a few others need more than faith. If you don't like the questions being asked..then maybe stop posting in hopes of everyone blindly believing.

Heres the thing...yes most of it is faith based...but lets not forget one very very very important factor of alien and UFO encounters and that is: FIRST HAND WITNESS TESTIMONY.

This is one thing that DOES EXIST in the ufo field. Think about it....someone witnesses a murder. There is no other proof to the murder other than 1 witness. That witness testimony puts the murdered in jail.

First hand witness testimony is often overlooked in the UFO and alien field, but I feel its VERY IMPORTANT.

If its good enough in a court of law, then its good enough for a UFO investigator.

Where the line gets muddy, though, is the amount of disinformation that is deliberately injected into this field to ridicule legitimate encounters. And soon we all become battle hardened and don't believe anything unless there is hard testable proof...OF WHICH THERE IS NONE AT THIS POINT.

So yea as the poster says: I want to believe...but it does not mean I will believe every story out there..

Does that make sense?

OG

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
This "tonality" witnessed here is happening within the broader UFO community at large. The overwhelming firehose of hoaxed, misinterpreted, and outright misrepresented videos of "UFO's" coming from YouTube, combined with a few sites dedicated exclusively to creating UFO hoaxes, has created an atmosphere of irritation and extreme distrust.

This seemed to start with the worldwide Alien/UFO hoax of Project Serpo (initiated by the people now with Project Camelot). That was the turning point of attitude in UFO-related topics.

I understand where you're coming from and that very well may be the case but honestly speaking, if those are the only, or rather primary sources of information being examined, then the bigger picture overall surrounding this phenomena in question is completely being missed out on.

a reply to: Onslaught2996

...check out a post I made earlier in another thread. I think we were streaming the same thought.

originally posted by: howmuch4another
I find that with the advent of cell phones having cameras in general (let alone high tech) the entire UFO phenomenon has interestingly decreased. Sure there is the occasional CGI or photo with an image artifact trotted around. But with almost all major events today people are pulling out phones to capture video or photo's so you would think an increase in possible UFO evidence to occur but has not. In fact more elaborate excuses for "not having a camera at the time" are becoming the norm.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: TrueMessiah

Well… the problem is that, right now in this environment of overwhelming noise and BS… what exactly is the big picture?

MUFON is going into the nonsense area of claiming BigFoot is an EBE. That's not valid research, that's stupid sensationalist click-bait.

The op is right. Though it may not be organized but you never know.
What it is is a mentality.

In any non linear doctrine such as forms of mysticism, religion and now UFOlogy there always are haters and non believers (if you may) and extremely intolerant people who think their intellect is supreme over any non material philosophy…even though their intellect can't explain any of the mysteries of life yet they condemn others who offer extraordinary non intellectual non sense beliefs that explain reality.

The people who say “ if I don’t see it I don’t believe it.

You see this in people like Bill Maher on his views of religion and Dawkins and his militant atheist disciples.

This kind of mentality often goes after UFOlogy as well just as hard as many go after religion.

UFOlogy would be a bigger target if it were more mainstream.

There are many like this on ATS

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
This "tonality" witnessed here is happening within the broader UFO community at large. The overwhelming firehose of hoaxed, misinterpreted, and outright misrepresented videos of "UFO's" coming from YouTube, combined with a few sites dedicated exclusively to creating UFO hoaxes, has created an atmosphere of irritation and extreme distrust.

This seemed to start with the worldwide Alien/UFO hoax of Project Serpo (initiated by the people now with Project Camelot). That was the turning point of attitude in UFO-related topics.

I understand where you're coming from and that very well may be the case but honestly speaking, if those are the only, or rather primary sources of information being examined, then the bigger picture overall surrounding this phenomena in question is completely being missed out on.

Making the public at large "miss out" on the "bigger picture" Is the reason forums like this are flooded with hoaxed cases.

OG

We skeptics only point out that most everything posted by the " believers" is exactly that... a belief.
Most skeptics including myself .... logically and rightly (In my opinion) believe that intelligent life is the "norm" in the cosmos.

Where we differ is there is ZERO proof of any of it visiting Earth.

So I will end the discussion here for me with this question.

If you have any proof of Alien Visitation.. Please post it now.

Otherwise this thread is utterly pointless!

originally posted by: OrionsGem
I personally could not care less if Project Serpo was real or fake. All I know is it makes for an awesome sci-fi read. I remember reading it at work to pass the time back like 7 years ago, awesome alien action.

Its like the continuation of the movie close encounters after the humans boarded the alien ship. Me likes it.

That speaks a ton to folk who really want to find the truth and abhor hoaxes and myth-makers. My mind is still open, but I must admit that the breadth of the phenomena suggests--to myself and many others--a more complex answer than "Aliens!"

Could be, of course, but to be so fixated on extraterrestrials seems to cloud critical thinking for some. Thus, hurt feelings like you seem to be expressing now, sometimes follows.

Roswell sounded good to me at one time. It seemed to possibly hold answers, but on closer inspection it falls easily apart, imo. Ancient Aliens? I liked that, too, for awhile when I was in my late teens but further research put it in much doubt---at least the way it's been presented so far.

Having said that, I'm personally trying to be more gentle with folk who think Project Camelot is a viable source of any sort, or that the galactic federation is nearby to save us, or that cattle mutilations MUST be aliens, or the folk who believe Greer summons aliens in invisible ships with flashlights.

a reply to: The GUT

Yeh I agree kind of, I once liked the AA series, the early shows were awesome....But I have to say they really got outta hand...I think the turning point was when they said the Nazca lines were runways for ancient alien craft.

As if anti gravity ships needed to get to a minimum takeoff speed. Ugh.



OG

a reply to: duaneology

Well, perhaps we ought to look at the realities of posting on this site, as opposed to many other sites discussing similar topics.

First of all, this site has members with expertise in avionics, astronomy, telescopy, members who have done countless hours, days, months and some of them years/decades of research into various subjects, which fall outside the mainstream of what the majority of people concern themselves with. From conspiracy in government, to sightings and abductions, the people who have been here a while have read pretty much every damned article they could get their hands on over the years. With the internet at their own disposal, and with ATS as a tool to collate and share information as it is discovered, they have slaved at the edifice of the subject.

So when you read posts on this website pertaining to aliens and UFO, remember that the members of long standing have likely as not either heard a claim before, or been in a position to have seen some evidence refuting a certain theory before. Now, I am sure that there are examples out there of members who are not being fair minded, just not being prepared to really consider a possibility, but there again, this site has a very specific motto.

Deny Ignorance.

There are many kinds of ignorance out there in the world, and perhaps the universe. There is the ignorance which comes of a lack of access to information, such as the ignorance shown by a man run down in the street by a car of which he was utterly unaware, and there is the sort of wilful ignorance which is shown by people who, for instance, hate on people over matters of faith, even though they suspect deep down that they might be bastards for thinking like they do.

The kinds of ignorance you may see on ATS with regard to the UFO issue, are as follows...

First, the ignorance of the true believer. The true believer knows, in his or her heart, that UFOs exist, that they are intelligently controlled, that they are created by extraterrestrial beings with a whole plethora of different beliefs and agendas driving their behaviour. They believe that they know what galactic political intrigues are afoot, and do not see why others cannot a) accept the truth for what it is without acceptable proof, and/or b) see the unseen as clearly as the true believer does.

The true believer thinks that crappy youtube videos shot at appalling resolutions, and misinterpreted images from satellites (the operation and specifications of which are often a total mystery to the individual concerned by the way) count as evidence, and does not really NEED proof themselves, to come to any one of a hundred erroneous conclusions.

These people are bad for real UFO research because they could not fact check their way out of a net made of wet tissue paper, and that in and of itself cheapens the field as a whole, and prevents, or at least slows down, the pace at which real, hard science can be run on some of the more puzzling and useful sightings and reports, by honest to goodness scientists with degrees in physics and chemical engineering and astrobiology, as opposed to morons like Steven Greer and Alex Collier who are in tandem just about qualified to professionally wipe an arse.

Next victim of ignorance, the super skeptic.

This is a person who could be present at the first mass landing of UFO craft, and still want to get blood analogue samples from every individual aboard each of the thousands of starships on land, and in orbit, carbon date the material of which their ships are made, despite the idiocy of that proposition, and kill one or two aliens for vivisection purposes before even CONSIDERING the possibility of alien life existing. These folk are so consumed with disbelief, that nothing you could say or do short of taking them up in your buddies space ship for an intergalactic joy ride, would be met with a sneer of derision.

These idiots refuse to accept the simple fact that most people simply do not have access to the methodology and equipment, let alone the intel resources to find, sample, and prove the existence of alien life, and will come down on anyone who has not done something SUPERHUMAN to get the highest level of detail into their evidence. While this is aggravating, and does make the discussion of these topics difficult at best, it also forces those who want to come forward with something, to try and raise the bar if they can. If they cannot, then just reporting what they know is still important, but they have to accept that these folk exist, and that the consequence of that is that everyone stays up on their tippy toes.

Then you have the reasonable human beings, the ones who have paid attention to all that they have seen and heard, listened to and read both sides of the argument, and have come to the only logical conclusion one can reach when faced with the entire weight of the subject.

That is, of course, that something has been happening in our skies, which may or may not relate to alien life. Objects have been seen, by countless individuals over the years, floating, zipping, and blasting around our planets atmosphere, which at present cannot be explained by science all that well. However, until either our science catches up with what ever is out there, or what ever is out there comes to us in such a way as to negate every effort of the government to cover it up, we will likely as not be in the dark. Further to that, it is important to note, that although one cannot be sure of anything which one has not seen and studied for themselves, mathematically, the odds of our planet being the only one in the universe to have developed intelligent life, if what we have around these parts can so be called, are slimmer than a supermodel on a hunger strike.

Neither extreme is sensible. The middle ground, accepting of theory, but being incapable of confusing it for facts, respectful of facts, but not to the exclusion of theory, is the best way to go.

If you are having trouble with skepticism aimed in your direction, may I suggest something? Imagine that you are a forensic examiner of crime scenes. Now imagine that you are handed a file, containing only your account of whatever incident you are preparing a thread about. Having read it, can you find anything which a forensic examiner would be able to test, prod, poke, measure, or even cogitate upon? If not, then you SHOULD expect rigorous peer review, and for your work to be looked at hard, for the awkward questions to be asked. Frame your threads and posts with reason, open to the possibility that you are wrong, and expect the same of those who respond to those posts and threads.

Be even handed in your work, and if you receive less than that from the community as a whole, finally, speak to a moderator, there are plenty around. Invite them to examine the treatment you are receiving, and take heed of their counsel, for they are indeed wise. Most of all, chill. This place will provide you with opportunities to hone your skill at communicating your ideas well, and you will also find that it modifies and balances your view, if you allow it to have the maximum beneficial impact on your life. This is a great website to be a part of, a great community, and I look forward to our future interactions here!

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
a reply to: TrueMessiah

Well… the problem is that, right now in this environment of overwhelming noise and BS… what exactly is the big picture?

MUFON is going into the nonsense area of claiming BigFoot is an EBE. That's not valid research, that's stupid sensationalist click-bait.

From what I've studied and read, the bigger picture is a very complicated scenario for most to grasp which extends into obscure metaphysical and spiritual aspects. This is a block that contemporary science can't adequately explain....at least not currently speaking. My main point was it would be wise to look beyond just the typical hoax bin of videos floating around on Youtube concerning one specific subject "UFO's", and dig a little deeper into Pandoras Box so to speak.

Don't know what's going on with MUFON there, would you happen to have a link to that. I'm really interested in how they came to that conclusion.

a reply to: duaneology

Yeah. It's called, "Educated objective thinking" and "Scientific inquiry" and "common sense".

a reply to: OrionsGem

I agree, it's all a part of what I call the "suppression campaign".

originally posted by: OrionsGem

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
This "tonality" witnessed here is happening within the broader UFO community at large. The overwhelming firehose of hoaxed, misinterpreted, and outright misrepresented videos of "UFO's" coming from YouTube, combined with a few sites dedicated exclusively to creating UFO hoaxes, has created an atmosphere of irritation and extreme distrust.

This seemed to start with the worldwide Alien/UFO hoax of Project Serpo (initiated by the people now with Project Camelot). That was the turning point of attitude in UFO-related topics.

I understand where you're coming from and that very well may be the case but honestly speaking, if those are the only, or rather primary sources of information being examined, then the bigger picture overall surrounding this phenomena in question is completely being missed out on.

Making the public at large "miss out" on the "bigger picture" Is the reason forums like this are flooded with hoaxed cases.

OG

So the op thinks that people responding to UFO threads are shills and you think that people making the posts are shills. lol

Seriosuly if there was any real good evidence out thee no amount of disinformation would be able to cover it up.

I don't even try to take part in discussions in the alien and UFO forum.
Too many members work very hard to prevent any discussion at all.
They are incapable of letting others have their own ideas.
I guess insecurity can do that to some people.

originally posted by: OrionsGem

originally posted by: duaneology
a reply to: OrionsGem

I guess that I fall into the healthy "I don't know" section of the spectrum. Most of what I see read is easily dismissed but a small percentage is compelling.

I think that most here interested in the subject think somewhere along similar lines. How that openness to evaluate each piece of the puzzle based on its own merits could be viewed as "ignorance" puzzles me.

Im telling you there are an aggressive group of people here who swarm any UFO topic posted with complete and utter dreck.

They make statements that they can never back up, and when you call them out on it, they conveniently disappear and another Ben shilling-ton takes their place. The next time you hear someone make a debunking statememnt as if its absolute fact, QUESTION IT!

Just think real long and hard about it: Why would anyone come to a CONSPIRACY SITE AND ATTEMPT TO DEBUNK CONSPIRACIES??? unless they have a ulterior motive...which is usually the case.

After page after page of bickering, personal attacks, and a general strive to make the OP look stupid, we all get tired and leave the thread....and the shills job is complete.

The closer you get to the truth in the UFO forum the more you will be attacked.

Just remember, the attacks are not to dissuade you, but to discourage others from believing you.

ALSO REMEMBER THIS: YOU CAN ONLY POST YOUR OPINIONS ON THIS FORUM, AS FACTS AND HARD EVIDENCE ARE LACKING IN THE UFO AND ALIEN FIELD. But the debunkers will TRY THEIR HARDEST to MAKE THEIR OPINIONS SOUND LIKE FACT!



OG

IT's true that there are debunkers, but skeptics are not debunkers. Skeptics simply don't accept claims as facts and ask for evidence. I see nothing wrong with that. There are two groups that make serious conversation about the topic difficult: the debunkers and the true believers. Right before you correctly pointed out that facts and evidence are lacking, you said, "the closer you get to the truth..." What truth? Truth is a belief and there are many beliefs. When someone claims that they have "the truth" about UFOs they fall into the True Believer camp and discussion with them becomes just as impossible as discussion with debunkers.

originally posted by: PhoenixOD

originally posted by: OrionsGem

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
This "tonality" witnessed here is happening within the broader UFO community at large. The overwhelming firehose of hoaxed, misinterpreted, and outright misrepresented videos of "UFO's" coming from YouTube, combined with a few sites dedicated exclusively to creating UFO hoaxes, has created an atmosphere of irritation and extreme distrust.

This seemed to start with the worldwide Alien/UFO hoax of Project Serpo (initiated by the people now with Project Camelot). That was the turning point of attitude in UFO-related topics.

I understand where you're coming from and that very well may be the case but honestly speaking, if those are the only, or rather primary sources of information being examined, then the bigger picture overall surrounding this phenomena in question is completely being missed out on.

Making the public at large "miss out" on the "bigger picture" Is the reason forums like this are flooded with hoaxed cases.

OG

So the op thinks that people responding to UFO threads are shills and you think that people making the posts are shills. lol

Seriosuly if there was any real good evidence out thee no amount of disinformation would be able to cover it up.

LOL yes using your logic there is no cover up at all. Move along nothing to see here. Right?

It would do you good not to tell ME what I think, unless you are a psychic in which case your wasting time on this thread and should be making money like Ms. Cleo once did. Its a very lucrative business I hear.

OG

way to deflect any responsibility.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I think the problem is that people have to be spanked when they throw total bunk at us.

I love a good UFO thread. Problem is that there just aren't many good UFO threads. Also (imo) people that cannot distinguish betwixt the greatest phenomenon of our times and a bird should be spanked/roasted so they think twice about posting bunk again

Onslaught if it's presently dark outside where you are take your phone outside and take some video of stars or if it's cloudy try a passing vehicle or streetlights anything really and then post the video here and see if we can identify that beautifully in-focus clear as a bell video.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
It's real simple...prove it.



Pretty much everyone has a camera now days..yet no valid proof of anything has shown itself.



People come and talk about.."wow I just saw a UFO..and it did this and that with capabilities beyond ours"...well, where is the footage of these amazing maneuvers?



The only ones I ever see are distant lights in the sky which could be anything, or stationary object which the videographer never seems to bother to stay around to film the craft leaving. People say they have seen aliens...where is that footage?



Even homeless people have phones...you financial situation doesn't matter..the majority of the planet has access to a cell phone with video capabilities.



Why with everything that everyone in the world has access to..has not one viable piece of evidence ever come forth?