Is Anything Real?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I often think this entire reality is a simulation, but I give other people the benefit of the doubt, because if they are real, I would never want to be responsible for hastily injuring one of them. There was an episode of the Simpsons recently where the captain of a ship tries to save a bunch of therapy dolls that had been blown overboard. Sometimes I wonder if that is the nature of my reality. I hope not. It would certainly suck to waste a bunch of angst on NPCs. ;p

I had a vision where i was a child riding in a car and was very excited because we were driving to something like disney or six flags. As we approached our destination i could see a big blue ball rotating like a ferris wheel in the sky. It was earth and we were about to park and join the ride. It was like the size of a huge building but was rotating just they way earth rotates.

It's an man made Virus wake up guys! a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I think we are in a simulation...and I wish whoever is running the simulation would hack it and let me win the lottery.

Holy pride on a pita bat man! There's some real self love going on here. Nothing new about solipsism I'm afraid. Bits and pieces of it have existed in eastern philosophy for years, specifically Taoism and sects of Buddhism. In western philosophy, the Grecian philosopher Gorgias is credited with the foundation of solipsism. Specifically, there are three ideas he presented in a work titled 'On Nature' as a refutation of Eleatic philosophy of the time.

His points were:
1. Nothing exists; 2. Even if something exists, nothing can be known about it 3. Even if something could be known about it, knowledge about it cannot be communicated to others.

Such a philosophy leaves little to the imagination, however Plato argued against the idea with his Allegory of the Cave, which ponders the question of 'What is Real?' There's a brief video on Youtube which sums up the Allegory in a neat video game analogy; 8 bit philosophy: What is Real? I say argues because it essentially questions the question.

There is nothing capable of unreality. Things like flying pigs are not real, but that is because they are not capable of existing in their current capacity. If one follows this logic, you may find yourself then questioning what Plato was getting at. A pig cannot fly because it does not have wings nor is capable of defying gravity. Since we are capable of imagining it being able to fly and are also aware of it's current status as a land restricted mammal, one could also say that a flying pig is in a state of reality since we are capable of perceiving it flying and not flying. Would that then make anything we perceive to be reality (or not) based on whether it is an observable (capable of being thought of or physically perceived) phenomena? We assume since we cannot imagine it nor observe it, then it must not exist, and therefore cannot be considered real (unreality). It's that 'blind spot' in our perception of reality and collective knowledge throughout all of existence on this planet. It's the things we haven't thought of yet.

The biggest problem with this logic, and the point Plato was trying to make is that a blind spot does in fact exist. He actually takes it further than that by suggesting a higher reality than the one we currently perceive exists, but the point is the same. Dark matter for instance, existed for the longest time in the 'blind spot' and still for the most part does. It was something we never thought of, and no one ever rationalized it until recently. I believe it's in fact the opposite; everything does in fact exist, but we're not capable of perceiving or rationalizing it yet. Humans are quite limited in this capacity with the bodies and senses we are given. Our brains are simply not capable of perceiving certain phenomena, but that does not refute it's existence. To believe it does simply shows how haughtily we carry ourselves in this world of unknowing.

I haven't watched the video yet, but I think about this same thing sometimes and it really messes with my mind. The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it's not possible for anything to exist, and that I'm actually insane and don't even truly exist myself.
Think back to before the creation of the universe, whether by natural or supernatural means. If matter wasn't created by a god, it had to have always existed... But why? Where did that matter come from? How can something simply exist? It leads me to the conclusion that there is a god/gods... Which then leads me to another dilemma; If there is a god, did that god always exist? If not, what made god? What came before god? Was there a time when absolutely nothing existed, and all of reality was simply emptiness, where not even darkness existed?
Because of these things, I think there has to be a spiritual realm of existence that is beyond space and time and responsible for the existence of the physical universe; but still, where did these spiritual beings come from? How did this spiritual realm come into existence? If the physical universe was created by matter exploding outwards from a central point, what created the spiritual world? Does god have a god?
Another thing that creeps me out to think about is how much of what we perceive is actually an illusion. For example, we see colors. But are colors even real? Aren't "colors" simply the way our brain processes various amounts of light entering our eyes after reflecting off of various things?
And isn't like 99% of matter just empty space? When we touch something, like a desk, it feels solid... But it's not solid. It's a bunch of atoms with huge empty spaces inbetween... Like putting two baseballs on either end of a football field.
"Smells" aren't real. When we smell something, it's because there are tiny particles entering our noses that interact with nerves, which send signals to our brain... But things don't actually give off smells. They just give off particles that we breathe in.
The same goes for taste. Things don't have taste. What we perceive as taste is simply our tongue interacting with whatever substances we happen to have in our mouths, to help us know what to eat and what not to eat.
As for the sense of hearing, that's a whole other story right there. You could write books about the weirdness with vibrations and sound waves and all that stuff.

After reading this thread, I feel like I should be high to understand or offer anything meaningful. *mind blown*

originally posted by: trollz
I haven't watched the video yet, but I think about this same thing sometimes and it really messes with my mind. The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that it's not possible for anything to exist, and that I'm actually insane and don't even truly exist myself.
Think back to before the creation of the universe, whether by natural or supernatural means. If matter wasn't created by a god, it had to have always existed... But why? Where did that matter come from? How can something simply exist? It leads me to the conclusion that there is a god/gods... Which then leads me to another dilemma; If there is a god, did that god always exist? If not, what made god? What came before god? Was there a time when absolutely nothing existed, and all of reality was simply emptiness, where not even darkness existed?
Because of these things, I think there has to be a spiritual realm of existence that is beyond space and time and responsible for the existence of the physical universe; but still, where did these spiritual beings come from? How did this spiritual realm come into existence? If the physical universe was created by matter exploding outwards from a central point, what created the spiritual world? Does god have a god?

I think to answer this, you must think in terms of what I mentioned above about the 'blind spot' in our perception of existence. The concept of something being absolutely 'perfect' is a foreign concept to us. As logical, often cynical beings, we always seek flaws in everything and seek to explain away everything we come across. What if, however, we come across something that simply can't be explained by any known means? Something such as God cannot be explained as it is something that exists beyond our current understanding. All we know is that it exists, but we don't know how or why. This is where most brains start to simmer and melt as they cannot possibly comprehend the concept of something that defies traditional logic as that is the only way we can comprehend it. Something that has always existed infinitely without being created we cannot fathom. As humans, we are born, and we die. We create, and we destroy. So, we base our logic on something coming from something else and having an end. It is strong logic to us, because it is how we exist and how things come to be in our reality. Unless we claim to know everything there ever is to know, who is to say that something exists that doesn't abide by our logical reality?

originally posted by: trollz
Another thing that creeps me out to think about is how much of what we perceive is actually an illusion. For example, we see colors. But are colors even real? Aren't "colors" simply the way our brain processes various amounts of light entering our eyes after reflecting off of various things?
And isn't like 99% of matter just empty space? When we touch something, like a desk, it feels solid... But it's not solid. It's a bunch of atoms with huge empty spaces inbetween... Like putting two baseballs on either end of a football field.
"Smells" aren't real. When we smell something, it's because there are tiny particles entering our noses that interact with nerves, which send signals to our brain... But things don't actually give off smells. They just give off particles that we breathe in.
The same goes for taste. Things don't have taste. What we perceive as taste is simply our tongue interacting with whatever substances we happen to have in our mouths, to help us know what to eat and what not to eat.
As for the sense of hearing, that's a whole other story right there. You could write books about the weirdness with vibrations and sound waves and all that stuff.

The definition of an illusion is something that is likely to be wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses. In the case of vision, there are color blind folks who see in gray scale, there are regular folks who see colors, and there are even tetrachromatics who see even more colors. I don't think it's so much an illusion as much as it is an individual perception of the same thing.

The way I view matter is like living in a big ball pit. You can take the atom idea and push it even further. I liked the ending of men in black as it showed the concept of the marble galaxy, where our entire universe exists in a giant alien marble with the idea that their universe exists in an even larger one. Again, the mind starts to heave at this point. I believe it's the same concept with atoms; which are made up of even smaller particles which are undoubtedly made up of even smaller particles. What if those particles fill in the 'empty' spaces?

Smells, taste, and hearing follow a similar line of thought as vision; although they also have the added confusion of emotional memory being attached to them. The scent of patchouli for instance brings fond memories of the past to my parents, however I can't stand the stuff. This does bring up the interesting question of whether they're smelling the exact same smell as you are though. Unless you have the exact same criteria with which you are observing the smell (age, nose, nerves, nostrils, whatever) there's no real way of telling. As opposed to sight, which can be verified through descriptive communication, scent, taste, or hearing cannot be completely verified. Most people agree that poop stinks and nails on a chalk board are annoying as all hell though, if that offers any consolation!

originally posted by: FishEra2015
It's an man made Virus wake up guys! [/post]

You really never got past the first line of the OP did you?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I thought of this cartoon for some reason:



Lets look at this from a practical perspective.

It is very possible to train oneself to observe the mind from "behind the drivers seat" - it is a vast kind of "emptiness" or "silence" and one can be convinced to believe that it is nothing, and that, without their minds, only this "nothing" would exist.

The mistake that is made, is, "unknown" is equated with "nothing" - just because one occupies a place that is devoid of thought, just because it is "silent" does not mean that it is "nothing" - it is simply the "unknown" and it is "knowing the unknown" - the point is, the mind is really all that we have in terms of our perception, and for one to cripple it and experience the "mindless" "empty" state means that they cannot go any further, in other words, they have hit a brick wall.

There is more to know, and to think that one knows all if one knows "nothing" is false, because there are things that they have yet to experience, places they have never travelled to before, and people they do not know of and have never met.

The mind, on the other hand, lets us explore our reality, instead of nullifying it, and as long as one still has thoughts, they can explore forevermore.

The mind itself is para-physical and although the brain and the mind work together, the thoughts that one has and creates is a facet of their being, when one dies, the mind and thoughts that one had created, remain, unique thoughts that occupy for each individual, a neiche in the realm of infinite possibility, a unique point in time and space that is theirs. A powerful being has the quality of thought to be able to create their own dreams, and some have the power to use their thoughts to manifest a soul or a spirit, and the most powerful, can even animate a physical body with their thoughts alone.

There are many individuals here that are of such quality, they control their bodies like a puppet. However, for the general population, they are still in the realm of their creator's, an operating system that supports bodies and life, and a program that allows individuals to operate physical bodies.

What some try to do, is to experience what the "puppeteers" experience, experiencing the body as a "shell" - however, they do not have sufficient power to operate their body with their own thoughts, their body is still in the hands of their creator, and although it is a novel experience for them, feeling as if they are outside the bounds of reality, for them, they would not be able to operate without their operating system, that being, the realm of their creator's.

Like the clay men - creations that need the clay world that was manifested for them.

The truth is that the place that is outside of this creation is vast and infinite, and "nothing" is the brick wall that they hit, some are rebellious, and would like to alienate themselves from their creators so that they can experience this world, however, unfortunately, if they were to "escape" it would be a living hell, as they cannot deal with true uncertainty.

This is where "they" get upset, there are beings that came into their own creation, and they occupy infinity, and some are imprisoned here, however, there are beings also that were created, and if it was not for their creator, they would not exist at all - approaching the state they want to achieve by experiencing "silence" they still cannot experience the state of infinitude where the mind is in a complete dream-state.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

My question is that assuming those theories are true, would you be able to handle the truth?

Would you even want the truth if meant everything you knew was in fact a huge simulation created by something from a higher dimension in order to figure things out like a huge computer?

What if I told you that the universe and us by extension, was just programming lines and codes, albeit too small for us to perceive? DNA and RNA tell organisms what to do right down to the day they die and how they die. Just like how computer operating systems tell them how to work, DNA does the same thing. Would you be startled? Would you want to call me crazy? Go ahead, I know I'm crazy for having seen the truth of everything.

I've peeled back that curtain. It made me old before my time. And it creates a depression in your spirit that can never be broken. Knowing how everything will happen before it does and not being able to change it will destroy you after awhile.

But on the other hand, ya'll conspiracy people will be proven right in the end and it will be the greatest joke ever told. But all in due time. Like I said, I could tell everyone in the world what will happen to them, but telling them would only postpone the inevitable or create unforeseen events. Trust me, I tried. It only works long enough for the TPTB to reset everything over again. Seeing how their last attempts have failed enough that people still remember the location of New Zealand and the bearenstein bears, I'd say that 2016 is when things will have gone past the point of no return. Until 2022, it will be dark times for the world as good and bad do battle in the streets around the world.

"but anon, you said it yourself, you're crazy. how do you know that these things will happen and why should we believe you?" Because Nickleback and Weird Al released two songs. Two songs that I remember from a previous time, including singing the lyrics to the songs, the day they came out with no possible way of me having heard of them (camp work means you away from almost everything)

Foil and Edge of a Revolution

They released at the same time as when I remembered, hence 2016 will be the start of the fun this time around.

Believe me or don't, but heed my words of caution. If you think it can't get any worse, you are sorely mistaken.

It will get so bad, that people will start to notice how much it all stinks of an elaborate plot, like something out of hollywood. And at that moment, me and my carefully placed friends will stick out a hand and a rifle and you can either become a part of destiny or change it entirely.

Also, stocking up on food and ammo in a non populated area would be pretty smart. Especially before December and 2015.

There isn't enough booze in the world to make me forget this

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Thanks for the invite to the thread...

Um, this is quite a question on title alone. So get comfortable...

Concept... this is what all of our language is build on... even other animals language.

We have these sound waves to echo off of forms about things we recognize if they know the concept from the sound then they have an image of what that represents from experience. When these sound waves have written form instead of random noises it gets more complex. Why random noises... well take away the concept of language and listen to the sounds of other languages one word at a time with gaps... it's not going to make any sense. like saying a word over and over starts losing meaning and just sounds weird.

So waves, that's the basic and really all reality is various wave forms of different amplitudes. If one considers the recent discovery that dolphins see in a hologram it's because they live in a state of matter: water that transfers waves to find things like bats do for insects because both have vision that is not so good at the speed required to catch small fast moving prey and it's murky at a distance... so with experience the dolphin even though it isnt the same dolphin can get some spooky action at a distance by visualizing waves other than the prey wave by the language of the dolphin and visualize it distinct from the wave of the prey like a shadow... we in essence do the same thing with ours no biggie... dolphins can talk we've known this before Flipper publicized it.

Ok so we have waves we call sound... that covered the ear.

Now we have waves of light, or radiation in the visible and invisible spectrum, some things seen and somethings not seen or better yet detected by our eye structure... other animals see in different wave lengths than we do, dolphins can see sound... we would think this superior and hey maybe it is... we have something called synthesia but we don't see it as evolution we see it as a disorder and try to correct it, as if we are at our Alpha level of evolution like the shark or alligator or any other animal that has been unchanged for millions and millions and millions of years. So since dolphins have mastered this do they have a disorder? Oh no why... because it seems natural and interesting for them to have this ability... when obviously given enough time we would adapt to the same some already think in pictures giving them a predisposition for it. All evolution is; is our DNA code upgrading itself or adapting to adversities found within the environment we have not been exposed to. With more exposure; to certain stimuli we could adapt and evolve to whatever adversity eventually and our coding normalize to it as a species.

So that's sight

Smells? The same thing yadda yadda yadda.

Ok why the lump? This all depends on contact, some contact is good we've adapted to it very well... and some of it bad like x-ray exposure in smokers can cause the very cancer to take root they may be looking for in a chest X-ray well why does this cause cancer? Duh, it is high frequency waves and they can mutate some foreign particle inside the body or cause it to stick instead of be passed and eliminated as waste we have what get called cancer cells in our body at all times, we normally can fight them off like bacteria in a barrage from our immune system to crowd it and get flushed out. But even without X-rays it can still occur from foreign particulate many found right under our kitchen sinks, bathrooms, and garages.

But back to contact, just like cancer can become attached to us, we can become attached through the chemical messengers in the body by the feelings they give us through the sense doors... this is experienced as positive, negative or neutral but wholly individual in experience... I personally like very salty soup few people could eat it and enjoy it like I do that salty, now if I was attached to the wave or concept that salt was bad? It would be. So now we know why placebo and faith healing can work given certain circumstances.

So this experience of contact through the senses that detect these waves are encoded in the mind as either good, bad or neutral and none of them reality except to the individual or those with a shared experience... but is that the full experience of whatever wave form one is coming into contact with? Taste changes in the 5 senses over time does it not? So we have billions of people on the planet experiencing a different reality their own. But this is not the base reality that can know and experience all of these various wave forms for what they really are, all matter is an expression of these wave form and functions and the energy they share for transmission.

This CAN be a shared experience IF someone else has experienced it in total. Very very rare and very very difficult for people holding onto concepts as truth when there really isnt any... and no amount of words or philosophizing can cause this experience because it is beyond cause, we can only witness it's effects... then do what? Try and interpret it through experience if one has not had the experience? Then there is no way on earth to share it just describe it.

This is transcended consciousness from the rote and completes all experience as it is in-differentiated by the mind which is also a sense organ. Which can be transcended as well, the ego falls when we can let go of all experience as ours and ours alone when seen it is really a delusion of ignorance, this cycle of attachment to ego depends on someone claiming it as a self when it is wholly not the self, it is just a small window of a small moment in time and space reflected as memory so we can adapt and thats all the brain/body/consciousness is. We can drop this attachment to this illusion of a self with various practice... but all roads lead to Rome so to speak... but belief wont steer the compass as fast as direct experience.

It is of no consequence if people think anything I say, do, or whatever is ________ to the true reality of being. I can't be like everyone else ever again and no I'm not special in any way what so ever I'm just in a wave form of matter that people can recognize and know by there concept or judgment of who I am based on the very contact we discussed, which is unreality to me but since they are attached to it? Reality to them.

We have this as an innate nature in the womb, after all of the memories we were attached too fade on death and the energy trapped inside our bodies leave as a wave form itself and this wave form itself is faster than the speed of light... more undetectable than gravity waves. But can be known how? By experience. It's all like ripples on the surface of water trying to come to some sort of equilibrium through changes and swaps of charge.

When a big bang happens it's like tossing a boulder instead of a pebble, the surface rapidly expands out and is displaced in what seems instant by anyone getting splashed or watching. This is why the universe appears so very vast between galaxies, we had a rapid expansion, black hole galaxies that are not yet formed are in a neutron star state once all the fuel has one it deflates to about the size of a golf ball at the core and can nova or tear a hole. Depends on core composition different stars different core.

it is undefined just like zero or infinite with possibility until we except a definition for it limiting it.

a reply to: Nechash

Like your .gif avatar reminds me of the formation of ice and other crystallization