Government to Ordained Ministers: Celebrate Same-Sex Wedding or Go to Jail

They are not a church. "The Hitching Post Chapel is a for profit public wedding location, or venue, ask them about their military discounts! They're no different from a baker who specialized in wedding cakes, a store that sells wedding dresses, a jewelry store that sells wedding rings.

The only beliefs that anyone is dictating to anyone is that of equality.

Here's what their website has to say about "marriage".

We encourage you to plan your lives together, not just the wedding ceremony and reception. Marriage goes on long after the celebration.

Is this the person you want to be married to for the rest of your life? We hope the answer is a resounding “Yes!”, and we can be part of the beginning of your lifetime of happiness together. But, if you decide that you’re not quite ready to wed, yet, we encourage you to take some extra time to think about it.

I don't see anything in their marriage advice that doesn't apply to gays.

a reply to: links234

its a LOT disappointing.

I'd suggest the purpose of this being imposed on ministers is to push churches or any religion into no longer performing wedding ceremonies in order tp avoid any fear of prosecution.

Those who are theoretically 'in charge' definitely have it in for the family and marriage.

People love the romance of church weddings and their trappings. So what if you could prevent 'church weddings' and make wedding a 'drier' occassion simply performed in a boxed in, windowless office minus the charm of an old religious building?

I am not suggesting that people would only get married for that romantic image, of course not, but it does take away the old world romance of the minister, perhaps in his robes, the religious or 'godly' connotations.

So marriage and weddings become government property and the religions are forced to step away from this part of family life might be a ruse to make the actual act of becoming married less 'spiritual' and more secular and owned by the state.

a reply to: Kali74

That's ludicrous. Walmart would happily serve the whole damn cartel if they came in with money and that's the point here. Most people could not care less who is who or who is sleeping with who if they walk through that door with cash and trying to pretend otherwise is a bit silly. Are there arseholes? Absolutely. But the majority of folks just don't give a shiite. It's that almighty dollar.

Someone doesn't want to sell gay people a cake? I'm sure that isn't the only cake place in a 25 mile radius. Go to another baker, get your cake, let your friends know how crappy the other bakery treated you, then sit back and watch others leave the first bakers and go support the other one. That's business. It's not a lot of difference if I want a huge penis shaped cake for a bachelorette party and a bakery didn't want to make it for me. I'll go down the street with my cash and find one who is more than willing to do it and who I know won't spit in it because I forced them to do it.

This is not 1940. Most folks give a bigger damn for money than they do for who your flavor of the week is.

originally posted by: windword
They are not a church. "The Hitching Post Chapel is a for profit public wedding location, or venue, ask them about their military discounts! They're no different from a baker who specialized in wedding cakes, a store that sells wedding dresses, a jewelry store that sells wedding rings.

The only beliefs that anyone is dictating to anyone is that of equality.

Here's what their website has to say about "marriage".

We encourage you to plan your lives together, not just the wedding ceremony and reception. Marriage goes on long after the celebration.

Is this the person you want to be married to for the rest of your life? We hope the answer is a resounding “Yes!”, and we can be part of the beginning of your lifetime of happiness together. But, if you decide that you’re not quite ready to wed, yet, we encourage you to take some extra time to think about it.

I don't see anything in their marriage advice that doesn't apply to gays.

see? not even a religious establishment. and everyone is getting all huffy because the government decides to give christians a taste of their own discrimination.

Where's all the free market supporters that supposedly exist on the right? This is why people see through your bull#. Public accommodation is based on an actual free market not a conditional market that dictates society by force. Get bent.

a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Until some zealot has their ear who happens to be able to provide an avenue for a new tax break. It's all good too because discrimination is now legal... yay freedom!

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: windword
They are not a church. "The Hitching Post Chapel is a for profit public wedding location, or venue, ask them about their military discounts! They're no different from a baker who specialized in wedding cakes, a store that sells wedding dresses, a jewelry store that sells wedding rings.

The only beliefs that anyone is dictating to anyone is that of equality.

Here's what their website has to say about "marriage".

We encourage you to plan your lives together, not just the wedding ceremony and reception. Marriage goes on long after the celebration.

Is this the person you want to be married to for the rest of your life? We hope the answer is a resounding “Yes!”, and we can be part of the beginning of your lifetime of happiness together. But, if you decide that you’re not quite ready to wed, yet, we encourage you to take some extra time to think about it.

I don't see anything in their marriage advice that doesn't apply to gays.

see? not even a religious establishment. and everyone is getting all huffy because the government decides to give christians a taste of their own discrimination.

Yep.

True Love Wedding Package
Includes:

Minister
Decorated Chapel
Music during the ceremony
Limited time usage of changing room
Filing your marriage license with the County Recorder
Pricing:

Monday – Thursday 9am – 5pm: $80.00
Friday – Saturday 9am – 5pm: $90.00
Holidays, after hours, Sundays – fees vary slightly
Gratuity to minister accepted

They could hire a "Gay friendly" minister to perform gay weddings, or they could offer to allow gay couples to use their own ministers, who aren't offended by the oath of love to each other. Of course, that means they'll lose out on that gratuity that's accepted! Problem solved!

If a church doesn't want to allow gay weddings, that's fine. I have no problem with that.

But this chapel is not a church and offers it's services to the general public. Yes, even gay people are considered part of the general public. So it would be discrimination on their part.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

see? not even a religious establishment. and everyone is getting all huffy because the government decides to give christians a taste of their own discrimination.

Just wanted to stick that here before you realize the hypocrisy contained in that statement and edit the post like you did in your last response to me.

Ordained ministers to government: Repent or go to hell.

originally posted by: Kali74
Where's all the free market supporters that supposedly exist on the right? This is why people see through your bull#. Public accommodation is based on an actual free market not a conditional market that dictates society by force. Get bent.

We then have a different understanding of free market.

As per the Library of Economics
Author: Murray N. Rothbard

"Free market” is a summary term for an array of exchanges that take place in society. Each exchange is undertaken as a voluntary agreement between two people or between groups of people represented by agents.

The government wants to take the voluntary part out of the agreement, not the "conservative right christian" choose your label it doesn't matter.

a reply to: LoneGunMan

Goddess of rebirth through death and destruction, thank-you. You can refuse anyone disrupting your business or stealing from you or threatening you. You can't refuse someone just because you think they look like a gangster.

This is in violation of the constitution and various federal laws. The federal government has no business interfering with any religious activity, and hopefully the ministers turn around and use the law to put the city and state back into perspective.

Now that being stated there are a few things that will have to be looked at before we can see if this is valid or not. The first is the place where the weddings are to be conducted, are they on state or private property? Is the private property associated or run by a church? Is it open to anyone or a select few. These questions often have to be answered by the lawyers to determine who is right or wrong in this case. If the area is run by a church, then the church is in the right. If it is say a public venue, open to all, and different church's keep interfering in a wedding there, then the churches are wrong.

The laws are very clear and the church's have the right, while it is within the grounds of the church proper to run it as they see fit. And that also includes discriminating when it comes to what all goes on, or who they would view as part of their flock. A church can legally refuse to wed people all on the grounds of religious objection. That means if say a black man and a white woman go to wed in a church, and the minister does not believe in such, the minister is protected by fed law and mandate. And the couple has no legal recourse. And the same should also be considered for same sex marriages.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

The man who stole and corrupted Libertarianism and revised to suit his right-wing, racist, sexist notions? No thank-you. he can kiss my ass.

a reply to: LoneGunMan

So a gangster walks into my business, I cannot refuse them service because they are john q public?

I don't believe that gangsters are a protected class of people, so discriminate away!

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
This is in violation of the constitution and various federal laws. The federal government has no business interfering with any religious activity, and hopefully the ministers turn around and use the law to put the city and state back into perspective.

Now that being stated there are a few things that will have to be looked at before we can see if this is valid or not. The first is the place where the weddings are to be conducted, are they on state or private property? Is the private property associated or run by a church? Is it open to anyone or a select few. These questions often have to be answered by the lawyers to determine who is right or wrong in this case. If the area is run by a church, then the church is in the right. If it is say a public venue, open to all, and different church's keep interfering in a wedding there, then the churches are wrong.

The laws are very clear and the church's have the right, while it is within the grounds of the church proper to run it as they see fit. And that also includes discriminating when it comes to what all goes on, or who they would view as part of their flock. A church can legally refuse to wed people all on the grounds of religious objection. That means if say a black man and a white woman go to wed in a church, and the minister does not believe in such, the minister is protected by fed law and mandate. And the couple has no legal recourse. And the same should also be considered for same sex marriages.

It is not a church it is a business. So it has to follow the same rules as any for profit business. If they feel so dearly about it they could become a non profit church. When you want to use religion for profit then pay the price of doing so.

I'm ordained, I'll marry whoever I want. I'll marry aan and a giraffe if I please to.. Two guys? Probably not, two hot girls? Probably so. My logic doesn't have to make sense. It's Sunday....

a reply to: beezzer

OK so I had to think about this one for a bit and read some other sources before chiming in.

The Hitching post is a business and offers a service sort of like a dinner offers a service. Both are businesses.

Now if a dinner was owned and run by ministers would that allow them to turn away customers based on their personal religion? If the answer is no then I don't see why they can at the hitching post.

Marriage does not belong to religion and just because the owners are ministers does not make their service in service to the church. Therefore they can not be protected by religious exclusion.

I read that they may get an exemption from the courts if so I will except the reasoning but if not I hope others except the reasoning.