an argument against giving beggars money

To paraphrase Dennis miller

Help the helpless not the clueless

I used to give out money to people who would politely ask. Over the years I made several observations.
1. The difference between a beggar and a panhandler is that a panhandler waits for you to walk by and then asks for money whereas a beggar will approach you to ask for money.
2. Most beggars would love to earn their money and will gladly accept work offers whereas panhandlers, in my experience, will turn down offers for work.
3. In most cases beggars are more often seen in tattered clothing and are often dirty but panhandlers attempt to give the same appearance but its evident on closer inspection that its a front.

I now do not give anyone money unless they are willing to work for it. Not long ago I was in Toronto where the beggars and panhandlers are at times relentless and after getting hit up by the same guy 3 days in a row, on the 4th when I walked by him and he hit me up again I asked "I know the 6 dollars that I gave you over the past 3 days isnt much but can you at least tell me what you did with it?" He said "I ate something" in a clearly annoyed tone. I looked in his Tim Hortons cup and quickly counted somewhere between 6 and 10 in Toonies and Loonies and it was hardly 8 am. So I asked him how much he usually makes in the run of a day but of course his reply was "Not much man"

Now short of actually letting myself get quite disheveled and trying this out for myself Im going to guess at how much money he made that day. I would imagine at best he was already there for 2 hours. Thats 5 bucks an hour. Now lets say he can only get people for 3 hours in the morning, three over lunch and three in the evening. Thats a bare minimum of 45 bucks a day. He isnt paying for shelter. He isnt paying for new clothes. Even if he smokes a pack a day and didnt beg for smokes that would leave him with 35 a day.

Now you may not think so but I believe that is a lot of money for doing nothing. Hell we make our kids do chores to get an allowance why should it be any different for these people.

When I first moved out on my own I got paid 200 a week. I couldnt afford a place on my own so I got a roommate. I ate Kraft Dinner and Hot Dogs and drank Kool-Aid. I had 5 changes of clothes. I had a used mattress, an old old old colour TV, a busted armchair and some assorted dishes. But I busted my ass 8 hours a day for those things. I paid my taxes and I still managed to save enough money to get a bus pass. So 35 a day for doing nothing.. meh

Now when people ask me for money I offer them a job. I was waiting for the bus and was asked for some spare change and when I told the guy "I have an offer for you. If you clean up this entire corner of cigarette buts, garbage etc I will gladly give you $5" he scowled at me and moved on. The next time it happened and I made the same offer the man was very egar to comply. I was happy to pay him and in fact ended up having a wonderful conversation with him in the process. I have offered people jobs doing yard work, painting, cutting wood etc etc all at minimum wage and more often than not it is refused.

I know there will always be the exceptions where people have mental issues and drug and alcohol abuse issues and in those cases our government needs to step up and help but the other people who are capable and dont help themselves will get nothing from me.

If that dollar is mine, i will throw it in a wishing well if i choose to.

I fixed ny neighbors faucet leak for free. The worlds economy will collapse? If that is what it takes for it to collapse, then let it fall.

This debate never really got off the ground. Some counterarguments came in but after that the whole thing came to a halt because nobobody wanted to discuss my counterarguments to those. Whatever. Sometimes debating with yourself is more rewarding than debating with others...

a reply to: introspectionist

Once again I'm sitting here in the morning and have a few minutes before I must take the bus.

I thought I'd add yet one more little thing to this line of thinking that I spun off in.

There is something that I find quite interesting that I have noticed in the world.

The areas of the world that are Muslim have much more free market economy than the West, much less crony capitalism. This seems to go very much hand in hand. As the degree of crony capitalism grows, and the tax rate, you find Christianity.

If you think about a society with more or less totally free market economy, to me it seems like Islam would be the only religion and political ideology that would make sense in such an environment. You have to get rid of the rotten apples pretty darn fast, to minimize the suffering for the whole society, in this kind of economy. It is from love.

Then what happens as leftist policies/crony capitalism grows in a society? What you have is pretty much structural subsidization of suffering. It requires a great apparatus to keep it running. I believe it is a combination of force of nature and planning on higher level.

It appears to be a pyramidal structure. Those lower in the pyramid support the policies that corrupt the overlying layers.

Anyway, I don't have time to elaborate on this theory of mine now. Off to slave labor.

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a reply to: adjensen

thanks a lot

a reply to: adjensen

I couldn't listen to the show. I was asleep because you only posted a couple of hours before the show. So I hope the audio comes up soon on the website.