1,500 Pastors Defy IRS Ban on Preaching Politics

originally posted by: alexball
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Well, I believe some people are special, and others less deserving - a tenet of Traditionalism that I hold dear. We can agree to disagree.

Every one is unique in their own way changing thru life from one thing to another depending on their choices. I normally look at action instead of only the words that are projected to see what is. In the end even a Buddha/Chosen is just a Buddha/Chosen among other Buddhas/Chosen.

a reply to: windword

What do I say???? I say learn the difference between lose and loose....

Also, while you're at it, make sure you learn the difference between your and you're and there, their and they're....

Any position you hold is knocked down a few rungs when you can't use proper grammar.

As far as churches using their position of authority for influencing politics, I'll be against it, the second that celebrities from Hollywood and music and sports can't use their influence for political activism.

IOW, no they shouldn't lose their tax exempt status. In fact, income taxes should be done away with entirely and then there's no need to worry about infringing on freedom of speech.

Instead implement a VAT that is tiered based on the luxury level of the items purchased, that way people who hide behind religious, or other so called charitable organizations to live opulent lifestyles aren't getting away with it.

Jaden

a reply to: Masterjaden

Also, while you're at it, make sure you learn the difference between your and you're and there, their and they're....

Any position you hold is knocked down a few rungs when you can't use proper grammar.

HA! You're just making stuff up, creating the illusion of infractions, so that you can try to set yourself up as superior, so that your vacuous post doesn't seem so mundane.

IOW, no they shouldn't lose their tax exempt status. In fact, income taxes should be done away with entirely and then there's no need to worry about infringing on freedom of speech.

Do away with all taxes? LOL! Good luck with that!

At any rate, churches and corporations don't pay income tax, individuals do.

Thanks for your input!

a reply to: windword

I find that some posters often focus on irrelevancies because they have nothing of substance to say ... and yet, their own inferiorities prompt them to mindlessly and needlessly attack others. Your mileage may vary.

This whole thing is merely the usual "much ado about nothing" ... Planned Parenthood Action Fund is a 501(c)(4). Same as, for example, Karl Rove's Crossroads GPS. If they go non-profit instead of PAC, they don't have to disclose their donors.

Tax Exemptions and Politics - NWT

And of course, typically, when anyone or any agency that is center of far right uses the same tax codes to structure their organizations, suddenly, cash is not "free speech" but is instead some dark nefarious communist/marxist/alinskyist/leftist/progressiveist/whattheheckever-ist plot.

It's gotten beyond ridiculous.

originally posted by: windword
1,500 Pastors Defy IRS Ban on Preaching Politics

It seems there is a movement from the Religious Right to "strategically litigate", up to the Supreme Court, a "Church's" right to endorse or slam a political candidate, without loosing their Tax Exempt Status.

Called Pulpit Freedom Sunday and organized by the Arizona-based conservative group Alliance Defending Freedom, nearly 1,500 pastors across the country took part this year during an election cycle in which same-sex marriage and abortion have become major issues between Democratic and GOP rivals.

The preachers are hoping that the political sermons in the vast number of churches will eventually lead to the U.S. Supreme Court having to rule on the controversial tax law.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

Here's an example:

Preaching Politics, Pastors Defy Ban
Pastors Can Endorse Candidates if They Give Up Their Tax Exemption

LA MESA, Calif.—Pastor Jim Garlow began his preaching with a Scripture-filled discussion of Jesus’ disgust with hypocrisy—typical fare for a Sunday sermon. But the conservative pastor finished with an exhortation to his congregation of nearly 2,000 to oppose Carl DeMaio, the openly gay Republican candidate for the state’s 52nd congressional district.

--------------

The evangelical Protestant pastor’s sermon had a political agenda, and a larger legal goal: It was an intentional violation of the law forbidding churches to engage in certain political speech meant to force U.S. courts to confront the issue. Churches registered as 501(c)3 nonprofits risk losing their tax-exempt status if they appear to endorse or oppose candidates from the pulpit.

I say NO! NO! NO! Sue them and take their Tax Exempt Status away, STAT!

Pastors and Priests and their "churches" are meant to minister to the spirit and address the choices of "salvation and repentance", not to use their position from the pulpit, as some supposed holy spokesperson, to try to limit individual choices and outlaw the perceived sins that they think need repentance!

Churches need to stop trying to legislate their biases and intolerance from the pulpit, and need to stay the ## out of the election and legislation process!

What say you ATS?

I take it that you believe that the churches of the pre revolutionary war did not say a thing about England? I take it you do not believe that the pre civil war churches did not talk about slavery? You need to read about history and the churches roles in social change.

originally posted by: windword
1,500 Pastors Defy IRS Ban on Preaching Politics

It seems there is a movement from the Religious Right to "strategically litigate", up to the Supreme Court, a "Church's" right to endorse or slam a political candidate, without loosing their Tax Exempt Status.

Called Pulpit Freedom Sunday and organized by the Arizona-based conservative group Alliance Defending Freedom, nearly 1,500 pastors across the country took part this year during an election cycle in which same-sex marriage and abortion have become major issues between Democratic and GOP rivals.

The preachers are hoping that the political sermons in the vast number of churches will eventually lead to the U.S. Supreme Court having to rule on the controversial tax law.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

Here's an example:

Preaching Politics, Pastors Defy Ban
Pastors Can Endorse Candidates if They Give Up Their Tax Exemption

LA MESA, Calif.—Pastor Jim Garlow began his preaching with a Scripture-filled discussion of Jesus’ disgust with hypocrisy—typical fare for a Sunday sermon. But the conservative pastor finished with an exhortation to his congregation of nearly 2,000 to oppose Carl DeMaio, the openly gay Republican candidate for the state’s 52nd congressional district.

--------------

The evangelical Protestant pastor’s sermon had a political agenda, and a larger legal goal: It was an intentional violation of the law forbidding churches to engage in certain political speech meant to force U.S. courts to confront the issue. Churches registered as 501(c)3 nonprofits risk losing their tax-exempt status if they appear to endorse or oppose candidates from the pulpit.

I say NO! NO! NO! Sue them and take their Tax Exempt Status away, STAT!

Pastors and Priests and their "churches" are meant to minister to the spirit and address the choices of "salvation and repentance", not to use their position from the pulpit, as some supposed holy spokesperson, to try to limit individual choices and outlaw the perceived sins that they think need repentance!

Churches need to stop trying to legislate their biases and intolerance from the pulpit, and need to stay the ## out of the election and legislation process!

What say you ATS?

Let's see if the IRS has the guts and integrity to strip these churches of their tax exempt status as it should.

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: windword
1,500 Pastors Defy IRS Ban on Preaching Politics

It seems there is a movement from the Religious Right to "strategically litigate", up to the Supreme Court, a "Church's" right to endorse or slam a political candidate, without loosing their Tax Exempt Status.

Called Pulpit Freedom Sunday and organized by the Arizona-based conservative group Alliance Defending Freedom, nearly 1,500 pastors across the country took part this year during an election cycle in which same-sex marriage and abortion have become major issues between Democratic and GOP rivals.

The preachers are hoping that the political sermons in the vast number of churches will eventually lead to the U.S. Supreme Court having to rule on the controversial tax law.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

Here's an example:

Preaching Politics, Pastors Defy Ban
Pastors Can Endorse Candidates if They Give Up Their Tax Exemption

LA MESA, Calif.—Pastor Jim Garlow began his preaching with a Scripture-filled discussion of Jesus’ disgust with hypocrisy—typical fare for a Sunday sermon. But the conservative pastor finished with an exhortation to his congregation of nearly 2,000 to oppose Carl DeMaio, the openly gay Republican candidate for the state’s 52nd congressional district.

--------------

The evangelical Protestant pastor’s sermon had a political agenda, and a larger legal goal: It was an intentional violation of the law forbidding churches to engage in certain political speech meant to force U.S. courts to confront the issue. Churches registered as 501(c)3 nonprofits risk losing their tax-exempt status if they appear to endorse or oppose candidates from the pulpit.

I say NO! NO! NO! Sue them and take their Tax Exempt Status away, STAT!

Pastors and Priests and their "churches" are meant to minister to the spirit and address the choices of "salvation and repentance", not to use their position from the pulpit, as some supposed holy spokesperson, to try to limit individual choices and outlaw the perceived sins that they think need repentance!

Churches need to stop trying to legislate their biases and intolerance from the pulpit, and need to stay the ## out of the election and legislation process!

What say you ATS?

I take it that you believe that the churches of the pre revolutionary war did not say a thing about England? I take it you do not believe that the pre civil war churches did not talk about slavery? You need to read about history and the churches roles in social change.

Do you think they got tax exempt status? Do you understand that the issue is tax exempt status and the legal requirements for obtaining such?

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: MGaddafi
a reply to: sacgamer25

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."

James Madison

Separation of church and state means that the government recognizes the written law of the land, not adhering to any so called Devine law that is taught by religion. It does not silence religion.

In the OT the Levites were the priests, doctors, lawyers and politicians, protecting a Devine law. The law is a written part of religion.

If the law is part of religion how can you tell a pastor to not talk about the law during his sermon? Isn't the pastors job to inform his congregation on what God's laws are? Should he not warn them when he believes man's laws are not honoring God's laws?

Religion is law, but you expect pastors to ignore when man's laws contradict his faith. He has an obligation to his congregation to talk about politics, the law, and anything else that is relevant in the world today.

No one has to agree with the Pastors political ideology, but to say he can't talk politics in his church, to his congregation that follows him as if he speaks for God, is actually infringing on the Pastors and the congregations right to free speech.

This law is stupid and the Pastors are absolutely correct to talk about politics. The whole tax issue is ridiculous to me.

You don't seem to realize that this is about tax exempt status. The pastors can talk about anything they want but they can not talk about politics while having tax exempt status. Understand?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: alexball

Religion is the divine arm of Politics.

Really? I suppose that you think that our politicians should possess divinity degrees and wrap themselves in divine providence for every bill they introduce and vote they cast?

To ban preaching politics is to effectively castrate a religion.

I thought religion was about ministering to the spirit, salvation and a personal relationship with a "god".

It's about the collection plate.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
For liberals/progressives/democrats?

Does this ban on political speech by pastors that you seem to be salivating for include:

Rev. Jesse Jackson?

Rev. Al Sharpton?

Minister Louis Farrakan?

Rev. Jerimiah Wright?

If you want to ban political speech by ministers who receive any tax exempt status for any of their activities you would have to include these pastors as well.

My husband and I tried to go to Jesse Jackson's church in Chicago in the late 1970's, he CHARGED a high admission fee to any non-member.

It was clearly stated to us, it was a ticket for admission. Which at the time we were too poor to pay and so we could not go to his church.

That was clearly illegal for a church to do for a church service, but I never heard anyone say his church should have their tax exempt status revoked for blatantly breaking the law. You all know he is not shy about talking about politics and urging people to vote a certain way, why didn't you complain about him years ago on this very issue?

Are they tax exempt organizations? Huh? If they are, the answer is yes.

a reply to: Tangerine

Do you understand that it is just a goverment ploy to stiffle free speach?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: grandmakdw

Liberals just won't agree with that because they think that they are right and everyone else is stupid, ignorant, and wrong and needs to be guided into the light of progressive thinking, by any and all means possible.

How ironic! Apparently these conservative pastors, who have taken part in this overt protest against their legal constraints, also think that everyone else is too stupid, ignorant and wrong, and needs to be guided into the light of conservative thinking through lecturing their congregations and through their attempts to legislate their religious biases and limitations onto a secular population.

Don't let them derail your topic.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Here's one subject I can claim some experience with having grown in up the town that Jerry Falwell of the Moral Majority called home (still home to Liberty University - training "young champions for Christ" blah blah). Old Jerry got his way here in town for many a year, acquiring property and using it to raise money but avoiding taxes. I even worked on a State Senate campaign for a candidate whose #1 issue was trying to have Falwell's tax exempt status revoked for all his open politicking from the pulpit. It was all to no avail.

Fast forward 30 years later and it seems to me that churches on both sides of the aisle are using their position for political issues. That tells me that most churches have lost their way, forgotten their true mission and been lured in to dirty waters of the political pool. My point being that the larger meaning for the country is not about a few dollars in lost taxes but a country adrift without a moral compass.

Over the years I've come to realize the importance of churches in how our society is structured and how individuals behave both morally and ethically. What is our country really is crisis about? Is it about money or rampant criminality and loss of ethics?

The very issues they are so vocal about the ones that have been used to drive wedges in our society - pro-life/pro-choice, for gay marriage/against it, welfare spending, stopping communism, etc. etc. Our country is more divided than at any time save for the period leading up to the Civil War. The fodder pushing this division is being preached every Sunday and no amount of taxes is going to stop it. We should take it for the warning that it is - that America has no sense of unity or purpose, no goals or dreams.

Much could be done by the church to end the bickering, restore hope and heal the wounds. I would much prefer they get back on message and get the ship turned around before it sinks. If taxing them to kingdom come would do it then let's start taxing them but be forewarned: WHO gets taxed and for WHAT REASONS will become a bigger political football than we've ever seen.

Don't be naive. The real agenda has always been to fill the collection plate.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Why? Large multinational corporations do not pay taxes and are allowed to dump as much money (speech) as they want into a race.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: windword
1,500 Pastors Defy IRS Ban on Preaching Politics

It seems there is a movement from the Religious Right to "strategically litigate", up to the Supreme Court, a "Church's" right to endorse or slam a political candidate, without loosing their Tax Exempt Status.

Called Pulpit Freedom Sunday and organized by the Arizona-based conservative group Alliance Defending Freedom, nearly 1,500 pastors across the country took part this year during an election cycle in which same-sex marriage and abortion have become major issues between Democratic and GOP rivals.

The preachers are hoping that the political sermons in the vast number of churches will eventually lead to the U.S. Supreme Court having to rule on the controversial tax law.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com www.Newsmax.com...
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

Here's an example:

Preaching Politics, Pastors Defy Ban
Pastors Can Endorse Candidates if They Give Up Their Tax Exemption

LA MESA, Calif.—Pastor Jim Garlow began his preaching with a Scripture-filled discussion of Jesus’ disgust with hypocrisy—typical fare for a Sunday sermon. But the conservative pastor finished with an exhortation to his congregation of nearly 2,000 to oppose Carl DeMaio, the openly gay Republican candidate for the state’s 52nd congressional district.

--------------

The evangelical Protestant pastor’s sermon had a political agenda, and a larger legal goal: It was an intentional violation of the law forbidding churches to engage in certain political speech meant to force U.S. courts to confront the issue. Churches registered as 501(c)3 nonprofits risk losing their tax-exempt status if they appear to endorse or oppose candidates from the pulpit.

I say NO! NO! NO! Sue them and take their Tax Exempt Status away, STAT!

Pastors and Priests and their "churches" are meant to minister to the spirit and address the choices of "salvation and repentance", not to use their position from the pulpit, as some supposed holy spokesperson, to try to limit individual choices and outlaw the perceived sins that they think need repentance!

Churches need to stop trying to legislate their biases and intolerance from the pulpit, and need to stay the ## out of the election and legislation process!

What say you ATS?

I take it that you believe that the churches of the pre revolutionary war did not say a thing about England? I take it you do not believe that the pre civil war churches did not talk about slavery? You need to read about history and the churches roles in social change.

Do you think they got tax exempt status? Do you understand that the issue is tax exempt status and the legal requirements for obtaining such?

do you understand that the muzziling of the church occured with the income tax? What was the rules prior to 1917?

a reply to: windword

really.. seems to me people have forgotten what "separation of church and state" actually means or the intent behind it in the first place and keep endorsing the violation of the very thing they espouse to support and desire to protect.

what it is supposed to be is the separation OF church and state not FROM it and the difference being that "from" is to keep distance between whereas "of" is to limit influence between or control over.

meaning laws or policies of the state can not be dictated by any religious body, it's not saying the state cannot use religious symbolism or that prayer cannot be used in ceremony or that members of state bodies cannot speak of their beliefs or pray or whatever nor does it imply that religious figures or bodies cannot speak or act in a likewise manner regarding politics.

honestly why can't modern america or americans abide by the rule of law, why does the state and the people keep twisting the supreme law of the land with deceptive semantics to oppress religion in the guise of protecting free speech? protection of the two are not separate matters yet the people seem to think so as does the state and persists in suppressing them for what is supposed to be protected speech.

i mean really i guess it's understandable since americans are not given a proper education on european history and politics to grasp what inspired the first amendment but come on can't you tell the difference between verbal support and material or monetary support of something?

a reply to: windword

I say NO! NO! NO! Sue them and take their Tax Exempt Status away, STAT!

I agree, if they're preaching politics then take their tax exempt status away.

The law is crystal clear...

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.
Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.
Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

originally posted by: guitarplayer
a reply to: Tangerine

Do you understand that it is just a goverment ploy to stiffle free speach?

Rubbish. The government gave them tax-exempt status, remember? It should remove it but hasn't, remember?

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: windword

I say NO! NO! NO! Sue them and take their Tax Exempt Status away, STAT!

I agree, if they're preaching politics then take their tax exempt status away.

The law is crystal clear...

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.
Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.
Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

Thank you. Watch many of the posters ignore this explicit information.

originally posted by: namehere
a reply to: windword

*snip*

meaning laws or policies of the state can not be dictated by any religious body, it's not saying the state cannot use religious symbolism or that prayer cannot be used in ceremony or that members of state bodies cannot speak of their beliefs or pray or whatever nor does it imply that religious figures or bodies cannot speak or act in a likewise manner regarding politics.

*snip*

Yes, actually, that's exactly what "will make no law regarding an Establishment of a religion" means. It means the Government in any of its guises, Federal, State or local can not set up, engage in the ritual of, enforce the practice of, imply by word or deed that any religious view is superior to any other, or in any other way support and promulgate religion of any kind in this country.

And it is indeed a right of every American to be free FROM religion if that is their choice.