Alert: Patriot Act 2 on Verge of Passing Says Ron Paul

Originally posted by Amuk
What would help is for all of you to contact your congressmen and let them know that you will remember who voted to take away our rights next elections.

Believe it or not if enough of you do it can make a difference

Oh please. If you still think that our congressmen give a damn, or are even capable of making a difference or have the desire if it goes against their interests, you're kidding yourself...

Non believers? Ok, we'll just sit back and wait until Fox news has the special report, then we can all believe.

I cant believe some of you think this isnt coming.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Non believers? Ok, we'll just sit back and wait until Fox news has the special report, then we can all believe.

I cant believe some of you think this isnt coming.

Believe.. not only are most people so dumbed down they think
what you are talking about is a "conspiracy theory", they
won't even take the time to email Ron Paul about it.

All I know is, that under the umbrella of "war on terror" our government officials have been changing and restructuring many areas including the formation of new agencies, this agencies are to work directly for the president.

The patriot act was supposed to be a temporary thing and now we have seen a new and improved patriot act to take more of our civil rights away.

Originally posted by Thorfinn Skullsplitter]

Oh please. If you still think that our congressmen give a damn, or are even capable of making a difference or have the desire if it goes against their interests, you're kidding yourself...

I am fairly active in politics in this little backwoods town and whither you believe it or not you can make a difference but it is a lot easier to sit on the sidelines and whine about things not going the way you want.

I could give you a list of things fixed after a few emails or phone calls, of course it doesnt allways work but it beats not doing anything. The real trick is for people to quit voting "the lesser of two evils" and vote for someone they think WILL make a change

clerk.house.gov...

Vote Tally: Yea.....Nea....NV
Republican: 152.....67......8
Democratic: 183.....8........14
Independent: 1
TOTALS: 336.....75......22

I don't really think this can be linked to PA2. That won't be able to pass unless we have another attack in my opinion.

You can change a Representatives vote. They're up for re-election every two years, if you tell them you're not going to vote for them if they vote for something you don't approve of, they won't vote for it. As long as enough people tell them how they feel. This doesn't work quite as well for Senators.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
With them stating is on verge of passing the House, maybe at least this time, the House will READ IT before they pass it.

We can/ have to hope they read it... but what are the odds?

Sadly reading (if any members of the house are able to) seems a bit too much like hard work, naah they just have to raise a hand and say yeah whatever. If they had wanted to work they would have stayed poor...

Originally posted by Amuk

If you consider apathy fixed then yes they are. I wonder how many people bitching about Bush didnt bother to vote?

And thats really going to help seeing how they (don't) count the votes they don't like... i.e. votes from African-Americans..

The onion had a funny headline: "Black and hispanic voters urged to go to polls novemer 3rd"

Great. No one knows if we have mandatory State ID cards now? Because they snuck it through, giving the house no time to read a 3,000 page bill? Alex Jones' information isn't 100% accurate all the time. But 99.9 % is close enough for me.

www.infowars.com...

From the article:

December 7, 2004

If you were a member of Congress, would you vote "yes" on a 3,000 page bill that you never had a chance to read? Most reasonable people wouldn't. Most reasonable people would want to read and study legislation before deciding how to vote; especially legislation as monumental as the intelligence reorganization legislation or the so-called 9/11 bill.

And monumental it is. The legislation would greatly affect various intelligence and military agencies and procedures; financial systems; international relations; not to mention civil liberties. In addition, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the legislation will cost $14.4 billion to implement between 2005 and 2009. That's $14.4 billion on top of the normal annual budgets for the various governmental agencies involved.

Yet this monumental legislation will be voted on by members of Congress without those members having had time to read, let alone study, the bill. It's just after 2:00 p.m. ET on Tuesday, December 7th. The U.S. House is expected to vote on the 9/11 bill sometime today or tomorrow. But at this moment, there isn't a copy of the final bill available for House members to read.

So, is there a provision in the bill to establish a national ID? No one seems to know. Or at least the people who do know aren't saying. What else is in the bill that the select few in Washington are keeping secret? Who knows? Anything could be...and that's the point.

Quote: "Patriot Act II which is identified as the Domestic Security Enhancement Act".

Uh guys I have a really bad feeling about this. Based on what the administration did with the Power that they had for the last 3 Years - I can only imagine what will go down when they increase their Powers even more in the Future. Fascist Police State - Here we come. Disagree with a "Presidential Pronouncement" - you are automatically a TERRORIST (even though in Reality this is called Dissent). Next thing you know they will try to
Re-Peal the First Amendment. They will then throw you in a hole forever like they do in Iran. USA is better than this - lets all work to keep it this way!!!

You know why they are doing this hey???
Internet a thorn in their eyes, they want to shut the truthseekers up to avoid more information getting out about coverups and the truth.
This means that step 2 on their agenda will be in the near future, which would be staging a new "terrorist attack''

I Feel for all americans who voted against Bush, and for those who voted for him....MUAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH!

Good luck yanks!!

According to Deist, the bill would not only introduce the national ID card, but make it mandatory to have a job as well as setting up internal checkpoints in the USA.

Hmm, the Intelligence Reform Bill passed, doesn't seem to have anything to do with that.

Hasn't been signed into law by the president as of the morning of the 9th.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
THINK about what you just posted. It was LEAKED.

It was 'leaked' because it wasn't prepared for general consumption or even submitted at that point. it was 'leaked', and then killed. Supposedly some parts of it have been put into other bills, but apparently nothing particularly noxious.

Oh Crap - check out what FoxNews.com is Reporting - They slipped
"Patriot Act 2" Language (which you can check out on that ACLU Link) into the recently passed
"Intelligence Reform Bill". Jeeze these guys are soooo sneaky! How do they get away with sneaking these things in at the last second? Isn't all this stuff supposed to be Public? Here we go - does this sound like
"America the Land of the Free" to you?:

"You have a combination of a secret court that is operating below the constitutional standard for search and seizure and now against *individuals* who can simply be declared lone wolves *without any connection to terrorists*"

If there is a U.S. Governmental Official out there reading this - will you guys PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DEFINE what Terrorism is in a Straight Forward way to all Americans & what the Penalties are for being declared a "Domestic Terrorist" - Thanks! This will sure beat the Media Brainwashing & Fear Mongering & Religious Bias that you have got going from Day one of the
Bush Regime until now!

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

yep, sure enough.

www.foxnews.com...

Secret courts, lone wolves, anyone they see fit is a terrorist. Great. America. NOT.

It passed. Snuck through, and pulled right out of Patriot Act II. You neo-cons happy you got your legislation passed in a fair, well-considered way? Now I want one of you neo-cons to come in here and tell me how good this is for our country. Where do you people draw the line? huh? I suppose next it's: "You voice dissenting opinion and you are a "dissenter". Dissenters=Terrorists. Lock him up. Or better yet, just send em to one of those prison camps. Oh, and make sure it's one of those that has Human Termination services. "

You know what's really gonna be funny? When some of you neo-cons get hauled off too. I'll see ya in there. I hope. And it won't be pretty.

I hope you are pleased.

Quote: "Dissenters=Terrorists."

Yes my friend this is the only Logical next step! If you are Accused of Subversive
"Un-American" Activities & Opinions you will be declared an Enemy of the State & have your Freedom taken away from you!

What is next - if you are not a Judeo-Christian that means you MUST be a Terrorist right!

I wonder if they thought about the Political Dimension. What if Opposing Political Parties Accuse each other of being Terrorists as a Political Strategy - Talk about defeating you Opponent - you will send them to the Slammer in addition! Its easy - they have already associated "Liberal" & "Secular" with "Communism" & other "Evils"!!!

The day I heard Bill O'Reilly call Protesters @ the Republican Nation Convention "Terrorists" on TV (On the
Fox News Channel Government Mouthpeice) - I KNEW that if Bush won again that this is the direction that they would head in
- Dissent is to be SQUASHED @ all costs!!!

Look what they did to people who Opposed the Iraq War!!


[edit on 10-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Well seraphim, I am sure we are just taking this to extremes. None of what we are saying could REALLY happen. Nah. Never. Surely no upstanding, righteous neo-con would lock up a real American just over dissention, would they? I mean, that would be so unamerican.

fox article
The Justice Department can now ask a federal court that operates in secret to allow surveillance of a so-called lone-wolf terrorist � a suspect with no connection to a terrorist organization like Al Qaeda or to any nation. An example of someone who would qualify is Timothy McVeigh

I beleive that this secret court already exists and has been openly admited to exist and has nothing to do with the Intelligence Reform bill. This section forces them to get a warrant to -monitor- the Mcveighs and Kazinskys.

The bill also allows the government to deport immediately any alien who knowingly received financial support for terrorists.

Sensible enough.

The bill also gives federal judges the authority to deny bail to any terrorism suspect

Also sensible enough.


And who says anything was snuck in? A bill has portions introduced to it all the time. The senate and house reviewed the bill and approved it. Now all the president has to do is sign it, and it becomes law. 89 to 2 in the Senate, 336 to 75 in the House.

Washington Post
the new intelligence director will have greater authority than the CIA chief does over the budgets of the 15 agencies that make up the U.S. intelligence community

Isn't this a good thing? Taking the Budget out of the hands of a few chiefs and putting it into the public/accountability realm of the cabinet? Overseen by a secretary that the senate has to approve?

The bill also will create a Privacy and Civil Liberties Board, designed to safeguard individuals' rights. It establishes minimum standards for birth certificates and driver's licenses, and tightens the security of Social Security cards.

More good stuff, and they're at least trying to give some sort of structure to the concerns of the Public. I don't recall any of the major civil rights groups having city wide rallies against this bill or putting out a media blitz to let people know that it establishes Bush as King or anything like that.

House Majority leader in same article
"the recommendations made by the 9/11 commission have been properly deliberated, and the result is a stronger bill that will allow us to better fight the war on terror."

So these are also some of the recommendations of the esteemed 9/11 Commission, its what groups of people have been clamouring for, demanding why these actions weren't taken.

those mainly seeking crackdowns on illegal immigration fared less well, winning only House leaders' assurance that immigration issues will be taken up early next year

So its an international intelligence bill, not something thats going to be for domestic issues.

who voted against it in the House?
In a 90-minute closed meeting of House Republicans yesterday morning, the chief advocate of putting more immigration restrictions in the bill -- Judiciary Chairman F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (Wis.) -- implored colleagues to hold out for a better deal.[...] Sensenbrenner could prevent only 67 Republicans from voting aye. Democrats overwhelmingly supported the measure, with only eight voting no.

Here is a site that deals with the actual bill itself. There is a section of CSB or whatever Subject headings that lets you survety it and jump to the actual text.

You really don't get it, do you?

Establishes college scholarship for college students who
become intel agents for 24 months. This means that if you
are in school and have "ever" uttered one word against the
policies of the US government you will be reported as a
potential terrorist to the authorities, by a classmate or
"friend" working for the secret police.

Ends the "sunset clause" of the one of the most privacy
harming sections of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T Act that requires
businesses to do routine customer surveillance - allowing it
to be extended permanently without congressional review.
This means you will be under surveillance at all times about
everything you do, since everyone goes to a store, stays at a
motel, rents a car, has a bank account, and so on.

Expands the definition of "terrorist" even further (remember
section 802 of patriot I - terrorists are anyone who breaks
any federal or state law and endangers life_). This means you
will be assumed a terrorist unless you can prove otherwise.
To prove that you are not a terrorist you will be required to
turn in people you know and call them them terrorists. If you
EVER have or do break any law you will be a terrorist, be
definition, and will be treated accordingly.

Adds funding for Homeland Security Satellites. Everyone
will be under surveillance at all times about everything they
do, where they go, who they talk to... do you use a cell
phone, drive anywhere on vacation..

Establishes DeFacto National ID Card - and creates future
requirements to make it mandatory to be employed. (the 9-11
commission has called for internal checkpoints where US
citizens will have to "show their papers"). This means if you
are not a "contributing" member of society you will be sent
to slave labor camps.

By the way, for anyone who still thinks this is a joke. If you
have ever participated in any of the forums on ATS that
discuss anything even remotely political, then you have
already been listed, somewhere. Same for any newsgroup on
the Internet.

If you have ever said anything against the Bush
administration, said you believe in the Constitution, or
believe in the principles of the Declaration of
Independence... kiss your future goodbye.

Welcome to the New World Order.

Just speaking for myself, I won't be posting anything
political on the Internet again, ever, as of now. Also I won't
be posting again in ATS again. Too many subjects here that
have too much truth in them, and all of them unless
acknowledged by the "Ministry of Truth" are probably
dangerous to talk about.

Good Bye.

Originally posted by mockan

By the way, for anyone who still thinks this is a joke. If you
have ever participated in any of the forums on ATS that
discuss anything even remotely political, then you have
already been listed, somewhere. Same for any newsgroup on
the Internet.

If you have ever said anything against the Bush
administration, said you believe in the Constitution, or
believe in the principles of the Declaration of
Independence... kiss your future goodbye.

Welcome to the New World Order.

Just speaking for myself, I won't be posting anything
political on the Internet again, ever, as of now. Also I won't
be posting again in ATS again. Too many subjects here that
have too much truth in them, and all of them unless
acknowledged by the "Ministry of Truth" are probably
dangerous to talk about.

Good Bye.

Well, I tell you what. This can go one of two ways:

1) Everyone shuts up, pretends everything's just cool, and the gummint gets their way.

2) People speak out, they're quieted somehow, and the gummint gets their way...but there might be others who have their eyes open.

Hope is in the proles.