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And this is where entitlement attitudes begin...

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posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 11:33 AM
a reply to: KeliOnyx

Dear KeliOnyx,

Thank you very much, that is an excellent point about private schools and their bullies.

I realize it is not possible in every situation, but is that one of the reasons why home schooling is becoming so popular?

With respect,

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 11:39 AM

originally posted by: U4ea82
a reply to: onequestion

I don't believe children should have to defend themselves from bullies in an environment that is supposed to be nurturing. Children go to school to get an education, not to learn self defense. While I agree with you that standing up for yourself is extremely important there are times when I do feel it's a parent's job to step in and be an advocate for their child.

No, they SHOULDN'T have to....but sometimes they do. After the parent's advocate for their child and it does absolutely nothing, once again the child might have to defend themselves. I say teach your child to defend themselves. If they actually do, sure they might get expelled and it will be worth it. Many times the only thing it takes to stop bullying is to stand up for oneself. After all, bullies only bully the weak.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 11:49 AM
Actually entitlement begins when one doesn't take responsibility for their life and the direction one wants it to go.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 11:58 AM

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: U4ea82
a reply to: onequestion

I don't agree with teaching my children to solve problems through aggression, doing so would be an incredible disservice to them. Violence solves nothing, we need only look at our own history to see that.

Violence ended WW I and WW II. Violence ended the revolutionary war. Violence ended the civil war and slavery. I will agree that starting violence is wrong, but ending it is not and THAT is what the people in this thread, including the OP are saying.

If you choose to be a donut you will get holed.

Violence also started the war.

Violence has never put an end to war, we haven't stopped fighting war for 2000 years. How can you say violence stops wars, it only pauses them long enough for the losser to reload.

Every war that we are fighting today are the same ones we have been fighting for a long long time. Just because we have pauses doesn't mean the war ends. It burns like a fire in the hearts of those who have lost loved ones until it flares up and burns everything in its path.

At times it is necessary to defend yourself but shouldn't you way the costs?

I teach my children to assess the situation, if a bully that can pound them is picking on them I tell them to find help and teach them self defense.

If they are on equal footing or physically superior I still encourage them to use their mind and words and only use violence in self defense.

Peaceful resolution is the only acceptable path for humanity. We must teach our cchildren to think and weigh all available options so they can choose the most peaceful solutions possible.

Sometimes peace comes through self defense on a personal level, but war begets war so we should always considered physical conflict a failure.
edit on 11-10-2014 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 11:58 AM
We have taught our children from a young age-never Ever hit first But if a bully attacks you first,if anyone hits or assaults you first,in any way-you strike back Brutally,you pull no punches.And we told them that they will have our full support in such a case,whatever the fall-out may be.We have brought up our children to see the cowardliness,the lowlife mentality behind bullying,and have taught them,that if you show a bully the slightest sign of fear or backing down,this type of cowardly scum Will take advantage of it.

My firstborn,a very small-built,short fragile girl was attacked by a bigger girl when she was 11yo-and she defended herself so viciously that word must have gotten around-she was never bullied again in primary or high school,even though to this day,age 22,she's still a tiny lil thing,of very fragile build(though surprisingly strong)

My husband,in his first year in high school,was taunted and bullied a few times by a senior-year boy(well a young man,seeing ihe was a senior) The husband was at that age,not fully developed and below average height for his age,but he is not one to be intimidated-so soon after this senior started picking on him and one day went so far as to push him around,my husband turned around and beat seven kinds of living crap out of the senior.He pretty much went berserker.Needless to say,the senior never came near him again,nor did any other would-be bully.

After this,the POS senior bully seemed to lose his perceived "power" in the eyes of the other students,in fact,was pretty much a figure of ridicule.So not only did my husband show the other students that you don't have to feel intimidated because you're younger/smaller,that all that is needed is an absolute determination to Not be anyone's victim-he also ensured hassle-free highschool years for himself.

I was never bullied myself,but one newish girl did'nt seem to like me much in primary school,so tried to start a fight once by pushing me-well I pushed back 3 times as hard and told her to come on then,let's get this show on the road.She backed off-and strangely enough,ever after she was normal and friendly to me when we ran into each other,like our lil scrap had never happened

I know a lot of people have the opinion that All and Any violence begets more violence-i disagree.A firm and if necessary,vicious act of righteous,Defensive violence,has often stopped what would more than likely have been an ongoing campaign of violence.This I have personal experience of,and my family.

I would not in the least mind the inconvenience of finding alternate schooling for my kids if they had to be expelled because of meeting a bully's attack with superior force.I would not Have my children in a school that would expect my children to stand with their hands in their pockets while they're being physically assaulted by lowlife scum.

Bullies need to be STOMPED,and stomped so hard that it's the talk of the school/campus/ town for a while,imo.a reply to: onequestion

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 12:05 PM
a reply to: Raxoxane

Well kids get felonies and their lives ruined over playground fights these days.

This presents serious issues.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 12:15 PM
I think a lot of these comments stemmed away from what the OP may have intended. I am very vocal about my dislike of this seemingly entitled generation and wholeheartedly agree that it all comes back to them not learning to develop a backbone.

Standing up to a bully does not always mean resorting to physical violence. However, today the word "bully" means something entirely different than it did when many of us were younger. We still envision a bully as the kid that shoves someone into their locker as they walk by, knocks their books out of their hands, or threatens to beat them up for their lunch money.

Today, a bully is considered anyone who says or does something to hurt your feelings and THAT is where the problem lies. People stopped teaching their kids, "Sticks and stones may break your bones, but words will never hurt you".

Humans are not composed of rainbows and lollipops and nothing but niceness. Kids need to learn how to handle criticism, rejection, name calling, unfair gossiping, etc. How does banning games where kids are left to pick their own teams teach a kid how to handle the rejection of getting turned down for a job or promotion as an adult? It doesn't. What it does is make them think that they're entitled to everything they want without them having to work harder to improve the skills needed to get that thing they want.

And before I get an inevitable response along the lines of, "So just because you had to put up with name calling when you were younger, that means we have to?" here's my rebuttal:

Yes! I had to learn how to become a functioning adult in the real world. That means I had to learn how to filter my thoughts, give and take criticism, develop the self-confidence in myself to shrug off insults, work harder at the things that didn't come naturally to me, and earn the things I want. I had to learn that life is sometimes unfair, I won't always get things that I worked for and deserve, and sometimes my feelings will get hurt.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 12:17 PM
a reply to: Raxoxane

Instead of stomping bullies why dont we teach schools to understand the signs of bullying so we can get bullies mental help.

Violence should be a last resort. A child at school should be able to tell on a bully. The bully should be treated like he has a mental condition. He needs psychiatric help so he doesn't grow up to be an aggressive and abusive man.

Pounding the bully in high school didn't help the bullies wife with her black eye. Maybe if bullying was seen as a psychological problem we might be able to save some of the bullies wives from getting pounded on, since they know their wives can't fight back.

It is one thing to promote self defense. But violence doesn't solve anything. The bully has a psychological problem he will simply find weaker victims.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 12:21 PM

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Hefficide

I would do the same.

Excuse my French but we don't need an America filled with pussies we need an America with people who are ready to fight for what they believe in.

oh please...the wealthy (but in rare circumstances) never have their kids stand up and fight for this country. the are sent to private schools all their young lives, where they are educated to make money and preserve it...whole different world. the problem is, these are the same people that when they get into positions of power, think they know what life is all about....the only thing they know is what "wealthy life" is all about.

I heard a wealthy hedge fund manager on CNBC actually say the other day, ......a typical American with only 1 or 2 million in assets will have a tough time in retirement, so they should invest about out of touch, geez, these people and others that are like-minded, are the ones that participate in the decision making for America's financial future.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 12:30 PM
Not in our country,so much-exceptions have been where a student have for instance stabbed another in the neck with a pair of scissors,and that case was highly publicised because of the racial background,this being South Africa.If my child(ren) is/are attacked by another child,and they defend themselves fiercely,you can bet the farm we shall go to court,take every legal measure available to obtain justice,in the event our child is penalised for exercising their right to self-protection.And we shall never stop,nor let up till their name is cleared.

In my country there is not much of a future careerwise for white children anyway,and we happen to be white,so even if after lengthy legal battles,my child has a record for defending him/herself-the plan has been all along for them to be self-employed,to start a small business and hopefully through hard work make a decent enough living.But it would take a monstrous effort to successfully convict my child(ren) of a felony,for self-defence-and every effort will fail,because we would die before we let such an injustice stand-that I can promise you.Like I said,in South Africa,things are different from America anyway,here the schools like to manage things at school-parental level,and not involve the police/higher authorities for the slightest thing.There's regularly been brawls at my daughter's high school-nothing comes of it,except the principal yelling at the 2 brawlers and perhaps detention+letting the parents know their children were in a fight.Kids here are still pretty much free to sort out their own sheets.a reply to: onequestion

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 12:57 PM
A very good point you made there-these days a lot of bullying is of the verbal/emotional/psychological kind,including cyber bullying.This is where it is absolutely essential to teach your children their own worth,to teach them respect and appreciation for themselves-and that although kindness,empathy and thoughtfulness are the highest qualities to strive for-there's a whole world full of people who were not taught the same.

That there is a world full of people who for various reasons are often unkind,petty,meanspirited,insecure,jealous,thoughtless and intentionally hurtful.And I taught my kids that the most sensible thing they can do is to just shrug that type of behavior off of them like water off a wet dog,when they find it directed at them.I taught them that such crappy behavior is the Other person's problem,not theirs-and that it can only negatively influence them as far as they will allow it to.I taught my kids that people who are hurtful to them for no reason,are not worthy of any tears,or anguish.Their own chosen behavior condemns them to a level on which no time or emotion is to be wasted on.

a reply to: halfpint0701

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 01:41 PM
I respect your point of view,and it does make sense.But often these support systems like mental and psychiatric help are not available-and many schools,in my country anyway,do not cater for such.The thing is,the real reason why I have an unsympathetic attitude to bulllies and bullying in general,is because I was a very abused child,with a horrible family background-and really,I spent most of my life seething with rage-yet I never ever made my problem anyone else's-i never inflicted pain,physical or mental,on others,even though I was filled with nothing but rage and pain for most of my life,and have suffered major depressive disorder from a young age.I feel if I can refrain from taking out my pain on others,absolutely anyone can.I am not mentally stronger or superior to anyone else-i just had inside the awareness that it would be a crummy thing to do-to punish innocent parties for my pain.Yes it is a pity there are not more and better support networks for the bullies who act out because of unbearable inner pain-but I believe these are in the minority anyway.

Through my observation of people for almost 5 decades-bullying is Very often not caused by individuals "punishing" innocent parties for their own mental/emotional/psychological anguish.Very often it is perpetrated by children and young adults from very favorable circumstances-and the root of the bullying comes from a point of perceived superiority to the kids/others they see as "losers"/inferior for whatever reason.Another reason is intolerance for people perceived to be different from them,whether because of race,culture,religion,socio-economic circumstances,sexual orientation etc.

So while I certainly respect your point of view and your opinion,in cases of physical harm to my children,they know what to do to protect themselves.

To address your very good point about the bully's future beat-up wife-imo there should be programmes installed as a mandatory part of the curriculum from early high school years(in the US it's called junior high,I think?) Programmes that will teach girls from their early teens what the warning signs are,what would be indicators of a future abusive relationship.And there should be Way more funding to provide safe +protected havens for abused women and their children to escape to-as well as mandatory lengthy prison sentences for wife and child abusers.Bring back the chain gangs and let the scum Build the protective havens for abused women and children, as a matter of fact.Let them chainees build products to be sold to fund these havens,if government cannot spare enough of the warmachine budget(US) eg/taxpayer's money going into their own pockets(South Africa)eg.

I really hope you don't perceive my reply as hostile or even argumentative in any way to you personally,it is absolutely not meant that way,as I said,you did make a good point,I just think mental help is only gonna go a short way to help the problem of bullying.A jerk is most of the time,a jerk,it's not a mental condition,it's an ingrained attitude,maybe in some cases even genetic.
Sorry,but zero tolerance from me,zero mercy if a bully decides to pick on me and mine.They made their bed through their Choice of behavior-they can sleep in it-and if it's a hospital bed-so much the better-maybe it will give them time to reflect on their Choice of behavior in future.a reply to: sacgamer25

edit on 11-10-2014 by Raxoxane because: typo's

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 01:53 PM
a reply to: U4ea82

Ok. While in a perfect world, there would be no bullies, the reality is that your child is going to encounter a bully sooner or later at some point in their lives. They need to know how to deal with people of all sorts, including bullies.

The only way you are going to make 100% certain your child NEVER ever encounters a bully in their life is if you wrap them in bubble wrap and keep them in your basement, never to encounter other human beings. And them guess what? YOU are a being a bully!

I would rather take my chances with my son encountering a bully when he's young and bullying, while upsetting, is far less insidious than it gets as he ages. At least at a younger age, I can help him with support and advice, and he'll form some basis of strategy for dealing with the unpleasantness before he encounters that inevitable far worse bully later on in life when I can't help him.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 01:55 PM
a reply to: jimmyx

Way to totally misconstrue the point.

Not only that, but no, 1 million isn't enough for retirement in most places.

Thanks to inflation, if you plan to withdraw 4% of your savings/year in retirement ($40,000/year), there is a 72% probability they will run out of savings before they die under current economic conditions.

Now, I know most people will not have that 1 million saved away, but that 1 million only nets you $40K/year in savings to live on until you die. $40K/year is below the nation's average income by a little over $10K/year. We are not talking about wealthy retirees by any means even though they do have what seems like a lot in savings.

edit on 11-10-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 03:49 PM

originally posted by: loveguy

originally posted by: onequestion
I still think that they are perpetuatingassive aggressive behavior and that this is where the entitlement atitude begins. The victim mentality.

Movies like Shane come to mind...

If social engineers wanted more Shane-types straightening things up, they'd stay with that theme?

I believe tv shows today like big brother, and survivor etc. are geared more toward a disconnect of emotional bonds/ethical behavior between peers. ...reward handsomely for being the most potent sociopath...

I agree. On big brother 3 guys trying to get a girl to preform oral sex or she is not let out of a room. And the one holding the door justify it with a laugh saying it was only a joke and not for real. Typical bullying justification to justify the aggressors insane predatory behavior.

Are the people who say that a person should have to fight back with bullies when the group attacks saying the same when it is a girl who is attacked by three men who want sex? Blame the out numbered one for not having people around that can keep him/her safe.
edit on 11-10-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 03:54 PM
Standing up to a bully isn't entitlement. They want the police to do something about a kid, which is a problem, because until that kid reaches the age they can be charged, the police can't do anything about it.

The answer isn't teaching your kids to stand up to bullies (which often isn't practical, although I did it and it works).

One answer is to make the parents of bullies responsible for their children's actions - after all, they are the responsible adult, and charge the parents with being an accessory to aggravated assault if their kids continue to bully other children.

It's not time to make the kids being bullied stand up to the bullies, it's time for the bullies to be addressed. The aggressor should be the one facing the music.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 03:56 PM
a reply to: babybunnies

The answer isn't teaching your kids to stand up to bullies (which often isn't practical, although I did it and it works).

Just saying.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 04:03 PM
Reading this thread has me wanting to go be the victim of a bully or someone else being bullied so that I can beat his godd*mn a$$ into the ground in front of all the other kids.

Eunuchorn to the f***ing rescue.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 07:20 PM
a reply to: Hefficide

Zero tolerance has ruined the academic futures of many students since I was a kid in school.

Definitely time to reverse those policies. They seem to do nothing but hurt the victims of bullying.

posted on Oct, 11 2014 @ 08:18 PM
I had a friend that I haven't talked to since he was jailed that wound up in prison for life because he stood up to a bully. Someone taught him how to crush a persons nose into a skull.

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