Federal Court blocks Texas Voter ID law: Calling it a "Poll Tax"

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

By the way..just because I say small scale..does not mean to forget about it or to not enforce it.

Oh, so it IS a problem.

Just stop lying about how big of a problem it actually is.

Oh, so it isn't a big problem.

(I'm confused)

What is there to be confused about?

I am saying it is an issue that there are a few reported voter fraud cases, by right and left, but so few that it is not a such a huge problem that these cases are creating a major shift in votes towards the left.

Which the right is blatantly lying about. They say thanks to illegal voting...it is the reason Obama is in office or any democrat. Oh really...so I ask again but a different way...when Bush was in office or any republican in any office..this voting fraud miraculously disappeared. Isn't that interesting..

I for one would like to know..how Texas keeps being a red state....yet it is one of the border states..meaning if illegal Mexicans voting is such an issue as some would like us to believe, should Texas not be a blue state? In fact, if the premise of some is true about illegal aliens causing such a difference in elections..shouldn't all states by the border be blue and have democrats winning by landslides?

a reply to: Onslaught2996

So both sides cheat, but only one side wants to stop the cheating.

Why doesn't your side want to stop the cheating?

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Dear Onslaught,

Have I offended you? You keep passing over my comments (which provide less material for tooth and claw fighting than beezzer's), when I think they're quite relevant.

Or do you prefer fighting with a bunny?

With respect,
Charles1952

Every case mentioned here relates to election fraud (officials adding or subtracting votes) not voter fraud (an individual using nefarious means to vote more than once).

Voter IDs do nothing to change the outcome of election fraud.

Anything else brought into this discussion is mere penny-ante dirty forensics, for which any truly reasonable, ethical debater would be ashamed.

a reply to: Gryphon66

So you think voter fraud should be allowed to continue?

edited to change election to voter.

a reply to: charles1952

Never realized you asked something..

Whatever they can do to stop it..go for it but the right need to stop lying about how massive the problem is and that it such a big problem that it can effect outcomes of elections.

No one can offend me, never get offended..but I do hate lying.

a reply to: beezzer

The premise from you guys and the right is that voter fraud can effect elections...which it doesn't.

Why do you continue to ask why the left supports voter fraud, even though no one says they do, you are creating narratives in your head that support whatever position you hold.

I will say it again..show where anyone supports voter fraud?

a reply to: Onslaught2996

Dear Onslaught2996,

Thanks. I know this is tricky because you're talking with beezzer in one type of communication, and I'm trying to engage you in something entirely different. If you'd like, I can just call it quits for the night, and i won't bother you until tomorrow (well, later today).

Where I'd like to go is to change "Whatever they can do to stop it" into something a little more definite. For example, I prefer paper ballots. This electronic stuff seems to easy to manipulate. So what if the people have to wait an extra day for the results?

I also like the idea of Closed Circuit TVs in all the polling places. Watching the judges, voters, etc. Since it's for only one day, the police, Sheriff, FBI, and anyone else can donate them to their polling place.

But to get to what I thought was the main detail in the thread, I'd like every voter to be a citizen, absolutely proved. I don't like the idea of registering and voting the same day. I've seen it done with a utility bill and someone vouching for you. No more of that, thank you. That's why I like the ID cards. It may not be the best, but it would be a big improvement.

Perhaps giving serial numbers to every ballot sent to a voting place with each number required to be accounted for. I don't care, come to think of it, if we have to wait three days for the results.

I don't see why anyone would object to any of these.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: retiredTxn

You said:

"FREE VOTER ID for TEXAS!!" Yes, I said FREE!!!

But in fact: (source)

The Justice Department says more than 600,000 of those voters, mostly blacks and Hispanics, currently lack eligible ID to vote.

Gonzales Ramos' nearly 150-page ruling says the law "creates an unconstitutional burden on the right to vote, has an impermissible discriminatory effect against Hispanics and African-Americans, and was imposed with an unconstitutional discriminatory purpose." It added that the measure "constitutes an unconstitutional poll tax."
...
College students IDs aren't accepted by poll workers, but concealed handgun licenses are. Free voting IDs offered by the state require a birth certificate that costs little as $3, but the Justice Department argued that traveling to get those documents imposes an outsize burden on poor minorities. As a result, attorneys argued, Texas has issued fewer than 300 free voter IDs since the law took effect.

Question for you: If they are so easy to get and FREE!!! how is it that only 300 out of 600,000 have been able to get them?

Question for you: If they are so easy to get and FREE!!! how is it that only 300 out of 600,000 have been able to get them?

1. They are too bloody lazy to get off their butts.

2. they are illegals so they can't get them.

3. They don't give a woops bum.

P

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

By the way..just because I say small scale..does not mean to forget about it or to not enforce it.

Oh, so it IS a problem.

Just stop lying about how big of a problem it actually is.

Oh, so it isn't a big problem.

(I'm confused)

What is there to be confused about?

I am saying it is an issue that there are a few reported voter fraud cases, by right and left, but so few that it is not a such a huge problem that these cases are creating a major shift in votes towards the left.

Which the right is blatantly lying about. They say thanks to illegal voting...it is the reason Obama is in office or any democrat. Oh really...so I ask again but a different way...when Bush was in office or any republican in any office..this voting fraud miraculously disappeared. Isn't that interesting..

Well lord knows they tried.

a reply to: pheonix358

1. They are too bloody lazy to get off their butts.

Oh really? Do you have much trouble deciding which sheet to wear each day?

2. they are illegals so they can't get them.

That's 600,000 CITIZENS with the RIGHT to vote.

3. They don't give a woops bum.

You are clearly the one that doesn't give a woops bum.

'Your side' is so afraid that you can't win elections by being honest and discussing the issues that the only way you can even get close is to push fear mongering and blatant bigotry like your answer set above.

Pathetic.

a reply to: beezzer

Apparently we're misunderstanding each other. When I said I don't believe votes count, I meant in the sense that I'm starting to believe the Presidents are chosen for us, not by us

a reply to: charles1952

I won't face ATS and say I don't believe there is no illegal voting, but I will say I don't believe it is anywhere near the scale so many people here are claiming it is.

Where I'd like to go is to change "Whatever they can do to stop it" into something a little more definite. For example, I prefer paper ballots. This electronic stuff seems to easy to manipulate. So what if the people have to wait an extra day for the results?

What you said here, THIS is where I believe the real fraud lies. Sure it is still possible to commit fraud with paper ballots, but like you say, the electronic stuff is too easy to manipulate. So if there were precincts voting 100% for Obama, this is the reason why, not because illegals all gathered there to illegally vote.

This guy said it a lot better than I can: The Brad Blog.

Some salient points:

Moreover, you do realize that ID is required for registration by every voter in the U.S. in all 50 states under federal law (HAVA), right? ID is also required for voting in a majority of states without a problem. It's only those Republican-run states where they have implemented very strict types of state-issued Photo ID (which they know millions of largely Dem-leaning voters don't have) where it is a problem.

The requirement to show a very specific TYPE of state-issued Photo ID that many largely Dem-leaning voters don't have is, however, an impediment to some 21 million legally registered voters who do not own that type of very narrow, state-issued Photo ID.

originally posted by: Indigo5
How? Been voting my whole life...never seen them not look up and check name and address and cross it off...and I have seen people turned away for not being on the voter rolls for whatever reason.

As I stated you use a temp / provisional ballot. As with everything else manmade its prone to issues / failures. A lady voted for Obama a few times and did not get caught till she bragged about it.

originally posted by: Indigo5
Yep...and? If someone shows up and they are not on the voter rolls, they don't vote? Or in some cases they cast one of those temporary ballots until they can come back and prove their residency.

They do vote. As I stated in my post and now my response above.

originally posted by: Indigo5

Here is the issue with that..Ohio Republicans floated a plan for something like that maybe 8 years ago...the bill included allotting something like 6 DMV offices that would issue the free voter ID cards...all of them located 50 to 100 miles outside of Detroit and only issuing the cards between the hours of noon-3 on Wed.s twice a month.

Which is not what I am suggesting happen. A law that contains that caveat wont meet constitutional muster. All DMV branches during all business hours they are open.

originally posted by: Indigo5
get how that works?...free voter ID cards...then the fine print. Someone living in downtown Detroit that doesn't own a car and doesn't need to own a car or have a DL...has to cab it 50-100 miles after taking off work for an afternoon to get one of those "free" voter ID cards.

Ok which state are you talking about? You started out with Ohio and now we moved to Michigan.

originally posted by: Indigo5
Save the BS...please provide any evidence that Illegal Immigrants are casting votes?...And effen EVIDENCE..not right wing rags making up nonsense. Save me the trouble of debunking it with 30 seconds of google.

Its not BS. Hell go to Google and type in voter fraud in the US with illegal immigrants and you will be flooded with news article documenting that very issue across the US.

Finally - There is absolutely no reason for you to act like an ass.

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: retiredTxn

But in fact: (source)

Question for you: If they are so easy to get and FREE!!! how is it that only 300 out of 600,000 have been able to get them?

They are FREE and easy to get. Why only 300 issued? Perhaps the ACTUAL need for them, as well as how large of a burden photo ID and the free EIC placed on minorities wasn't as big of an argument as initially stated. Yes, one has to prove their identity to get an EIC that is free. The argument that some can't get a copy of their Birth Certificate is ludicrous. I'm sorry, but to get any type of assistance from the government, you are required to present a certified copy of your Birth Certificate. If you are too poor to afford a copy of your Birth Certificate, you are most likely to be on some kind of government assistance. Dumb argument.

From your source:

The Justice Department says more than 600,000 of those voters, mostly blacks and Hispanics, currently lack eligible ID to vote.

Seriously? You expect us to believe anything that comes out of the Justice Department? Your source states Texas has 13.6 million registered voters. Minus the 600,000 who lack sufficient ID to vote, that leaves 13 MILLION registered voters who had no problem obtaining ID. Imagine that.

I would be ecstatic if everyone who is eligible to vote has the opportunity to do so. I know, and you probably do too, it is virtually impossible to function in today's society without being able to identify who you are without some form of photo ID. If someone really wants to obtain a photo ID in order to vote, I would imagine with all the opportunities available, one just has to have the desire to get up and go get one.

IMO, some folks just wait until the last minute and claim the burden was too great.

a reply to: rnaa

Big difference between i.d. for "registration" and "voting" at a poll.

And many times the "registered" *voter* isn't the same person who "registered".

a reply to: rnaa

I think it's relevant to note that in some states trying to pass voter ID laws and acceptable form of ID is a gun license while a student ID from a state run university is not.