Federal Court blocks Texas Voter ID law: Calling it a "Poll Tax"

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: Onslaught2996

An exercising of all rights, or none.

There is no argument to be had if you are for fees to exercise a certain right, but against fees for another.

For effs sake...You PURCHASE a GUN..It is a PURCHASE...You do not PURCHASE the right to vote. Voting is not a consumer transaction. The purchase of cigarettes, alcohol, guns et al are consumer transactions between private citizens.

AND if you ever bothered to actually read the constitution...
Your right to OWN a gun is preserved in the 2nd Amendment.

Your right to VOTE in Article VI P3,
Plus the 14th Amendment (citizenship), 15th Amendment (race), 19th Amendment (gender), and the 24th Amendment (By reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax")

No where does the constitution say that McDonalds must sell you a Big Mack, that the gas station must give you cigarettes and beer, or that the gun shop can't ask to see ID.

It sure as hell does say that you can't charge people to vote.

Voting is not a consumer transaction.

a reply to: Indigo5

And How did they do that??? They didn't call and verify every single voter voted for themselves that were registered to vote, so how did they verify that there were only 2 instances???

That's horse #.

The minute you can tell me how if ID isn't used to verify that the person registered is that actual person that voted, THEN I'll believe that it isn't rampant, and as soon as you can show me how they verify that people who register to vote are actually eligible to vote, THEN, I will believe that voter fraud isn't rampant, until then, you're swallowing their bs hook line and sinker but I won't...

Jaden

originally posted by: muse7

WASHINGTON -- A federal judge in Texas struck down the state’s voter ID law on Thursday, calling the measure an “unconstitutional poll tax” that creates “an unconstitutional burden on the right to vote” intended to discriminate against Hispanic and African-American citizens.

In a 147-page opinion, U.S. District Judge Nelva Gonzales Ramos, an appointee of President Barack Obama confirmed to the bench in 2011, ruled that the law passed by Texas legislators and signed by Gov. Rick Perry (R) took an “unorthodox” approach they knew would have a disparate impact on minority voters. The law requires voters to produce government-issued identification before casting a ballot.

Link

Another win for the people to keep their right to vote.

A few hours ago Wisconsin's Voter ID law was also blocked Link

The only problem these laws help to solve is the Republican's problem of minorities voting, the bigger the number of people voting the less of a chance bigots have of getting elected.

There are 7 forms of ID that is accepted and the state has said it will provide IDs free of charge so how is it a poll tax?

originally posted by: Masterjaden
you're swallowing their bs hook line and sinker but I won't...

Jaden

You would rather swallow someone else's BS...then?

There is no proof that voter fraud is happening as big as the conservatives say. They only have proof of a few...but can't come with up anymore. They love to bring up democrats and voter fraud but conveniently leave out their own proven cases of fraud.

The conservative side has only what ifs....they have created a false scenario in their heads of this mass voter fraud.

Until there is actual proof...that side is full of BS and make believe.

originally posted by: Masterjaden
a reply to: Indigo5

The minute you can tell me how if ID isn't used to verify that the person registered is that actual person that voted, THEN I'll believe that it isn't rampant,

Lord this is insane...You present your Voter registration card when you vote.

What you are proposing is that someone forges a Voter registration card to match someone that actually exists and has registered...and had their address and social security number verified...and takes this risk of major fine and imprisonment, hoping the actual person doesn't show up and they are caught in the forgery and impersonation...all to fraudulently cast a single effen vote?

No sane...and most insane people...would not go to that trouble to take that risk to cast a vote...

Certainly not an illegal immigrant trying to stay low-profile.

That makes sense to you?

a reply to: Indigo5

Indigo, I think you'll find that at the core of this ... argument ... is merely the typical right-wing flapdoodle.

"No, you can't see IT, or detect IT, measure IT or demonstrate IT, but you can't prove IT's not there."

"IT" can be anything from God, to Obama's "tyranny," to voter fraud ... no difference.

Only the special true Children can "see" it ... and the rest of us are infidels.

SSDD.

a reply to: links234

sweet baby jesus, in a coffee can....

now you wanna talk mights, maybes, and potentials?

how many layers deep do you wanna go on this? how far into the absurd do you want to drag this, to defend this delusional mindset you apparently have?

are your mental gymnastics up to the task?

i know where my birth certificate, and social security card are....and before i was responsible for keeping track of them, my parents kept them in a safe place for me...

and again, there's the EIC, which is free of charge, and if you don't know where your vital documents are, then you've got a much bigger problem than not being able to vote.

personally, i'd much rather know that the people voting are actually authorized to do so, than quibble about possible costs for vital documents, and the people who can't be bothered to keep track of them.

i mean, jesus, who in the hell are we REALLY talking about not being able to vote? you'd need valid ID to do pretty much anything..hell, i just had to show ID, to get a pack of smokes today...so honestly, what the hell?

a reply to: muse7

Illegals are not entitled to vote, but that doesn't fit with your argument to protect minorities right to vote, huh? If you are so bent on protecting a vote, why diminish it by allowing people to either vote when not eligible or vote multiple times? Guess when the shoe reaches the other foot, you'll change your tune. Then voter ID will be a wonderful idea

originally posted by: Indigo5
I thought about responding...but having a logical debate with someone who equates the right to vote with the right to purchase a Big Mac is a futile effort.

and yet, you just couldn't help yourself...

what's more, you look down your nose at me, and imply that i'm some kind of simpleton, because of my choice of absurd examples....they were purposely absurd...

instead of seeing them for what they were, you chose to take them literally, and oversimplify what i said, in a sad attempt to make me appear foolish...sorry pal, it didn't work.

Hmm...How is buying a Big Mac different than voting?

it's very different....one sates a hunger, and the other (supposedly) determines the outcome of an election....

How is opening a bank account different than voting?...

that, too, is very different...one is setting one's self up with a financial institution, for the purpose of storing, or managing one's money, and the other (supposedly) determines the outcome of an election....

when you are able to tell the difference, let me know.

you were saying?...

a reply to: Indigo5

What arae you talking about, what do you provide to register to vote and GET your voter registration card????

I know in California, all you do is fill out a form and send it in, no verification whatsoever...

Jaden

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Lords of Kobol, give me strength....

who, exactly, is trying to deny or abridge anyone's right to vote, based on race, color, creed, or previous condition of servitude?

they're asking for f**king I.D., to make sure that people are legal residents, and are legally allowed to vote....holy braindead clowns, what the hell is your deal?

originally posted by: Indigo5
For effs sake...You PURCHASE a GUN..It is a PURCHASE...You do not PURCHASE the right to vote. Voting is not a consumer transaction. The purchase of cigarettes, alcohol, guns et al are consumer transactions between private citizens.

incorrect...

you must purchase a permit, and a license.....those cost. therefore, it is a charge, to exercise a constitutionally protected right...

purchasing the gun itself is absolutely a commercial transaction, but the requirement to purchase, separately, the license, and/or permit is not....it is, in fact, unconstitutional....but you'll ignore that inconvenient fact, because it doesn't support your argument, or your delusional world view..

a reply to: Daedalus

Which state are you talking about? Which ID? Texas? Okay, let's go with Texas.

Did you notice the post above where I cited the existing Election law about how voters were traditionally IDed at the polls?

There was little to no way that anyone could (or would) vote multiple times under the requirements for IDENTIFICATION that existed prior to the off again on again law currently under discussion. The poll worker checking folks in verifies identity AND MARKS THE NAME OFF THE CHECKIN LIST WHEN THEY VOTE.

Oh, well someone could fake those methods of ID, right? Sure.

But, If someone is going to fake a driver's licence, voter registration card, or driver's licence ... they can fake one of the new Voter IDs.

And above all that, there was and is simply no need for these measures! There is no credible evidence of voter fraud! You guys on the pro side of the argument keep ignoring that fact or claiming through some arcane semantic flips that there's just no way to determine voter fraud ... when your side has been steadily spending the tax payers' money on the project for 15 YEARS! If it can't be found, then what is everyone looking for, and not finding?

Your arguments all conceive somehow that voters were just being waved through the polls to vote multiple times before the new voter ID, there's no evidence of that, look at the processes in any given state again. Almost impossible to fake a vote unless the poll workers or election office is in collusion, and then, guess what, that's ELECTION FRAUD not VOTER FRAUD and is not stopped by Voter IDs.

It's a pointless solution searching for a made-up problem.

Now, you can keep being nasty to anyone who disagrees with you on this one Daedalus, implying that they're somehow mentally incapacitated, but, my friend, on this issue you seem to have deep blinders on. It's really out of character if I may say so.

And OF COURSE there's a charge for the so-called "free" EIC... the cost of a birth certificate if you don't have one. I just did it here in Georgia this year under our new law for my Driver's License and the whole process cost me about $60. That's nothing to me, but to some folks here in GA and there in TX it's more than enough to make them throw up their hands in frustration and just abandon their desire to vote.

And its not up to any of you to determine "well, if they can't afford that, or they didn't keep up with their documents, they don't deserve to vote" ... what arbitrary hogwash!

That's not the American way.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Lords of Kobol, give me strength....

who, exactly, is trying to deny or abridge anyone's right to vote, based on race, color, creed, or previous condition of servitude?

they're asking for f**king I.D., to make sure that people are legal residents, and are legally allowed to vote....holy braindead clowns, what the hell is your deal?

In case you didn't understand the word abridge one of the terms is " to lessen the strength or effect of (something, such as a right)"..the right of people to be able to vote but cannot afford to get the propers ID's therefore lessening their votes or voice is the issue.

If they are so worried about ID's why not issue a national ID card for free for citizens as soon as they turn the proper age to vote.

The right is targeting the poor with this law...thinking that the poor means minority or votes democrat.

originally posted by: Daedalus

i know where my birth certificate, and social security card are....and before i was responsible for keeping track of them, my parents kept them in a safe place for me...

and again, there's the EIC, which is free of charge, and if you don't know where your vital documents are, then you've got a much bigger problem than not being able to vote.

personally, i'd much rather know that the people voting are actually authorized to do so, than quibble about possible costs for vital documents, and the people who can't be bothered to keep track of them.

i mean, jesus, who in the hell are we REALLY talking about not being able to vote? you'd need valid ID to do pretty much anything..hell, i just had to show ID, to get a pack of smokes today...so honestly, what the hell?

Some folks are just never gonna get it. I stated in a previous post who in this day and age does not have a photo ID, or the documents required to get one? Ultimately, all the opposition to Voter ID come back to the burden it places on minorities and poor to get a copy of their birth certificate, or the cost they incur by taking off work ( yeah, right ) and travel to get these documents. Seriously?

If we would just change the name to say Voter ID & Free Government Stuff card, just bring your birth certificate and social security card to receive this free ID, the lines would be around the block to get one. Randomly give away TV's, Rims, and Grills to those waiting, and we would have more registered voters than ever.

And after all that, how many would actually show up to vote? It's a no win situation. I give up trying to understand the opposition to Voter ID. They make absolutely no sense. I can't imagine trying to function in a society such as ours without some form of identification. And I highly doubt that many don't have one, or the means to get one.

I just love how the "non racists" here are so comfortable with implying (or heck, stating outright) that the poor and minorities are just too lazy or irresponsible or too busy mooching "government free stuff" all of which clearly and obviously reflect racist and classist ideology, but then, when someone points that garbage out, fingers can't fly fast enough to dismiss it with "oh yeah, play the race card."

The new Voter ID laws are not keeping anyone from faking votes that was faking them before ... for the same reason that denying drivers licenses, voter registration cards and even utility bills as ID isn't.

Because it's just not happening in any meaningful or appreciable numbers.

If this is needed to stop rampant Voter Fraud then demonstrate, any of you who care to, where the rampant Voter Fraud is happening.

Is that so hard?

a reply to: Masterjaden

I know in California, all you do is fill out a form and send it in, no verification whatsoever...

Wrong. I have posted the description of the Federal requirements earlier in the thread, but it would appear a timely repeat is required.

(bolding and underlining markup is my addition to emphasize the point being made)

(Source)

...
Moreover, you do realize that ID is required for registration by every voter in the U.S. in all 50 states under federal law (HAVA), right? ID is also required for voting in a majority of states without a problem. It's only those Republican-run states where they have implemented very strict types of state-issued Photo ID (which they know millions of largely Dem-leaning voters don't have) where it is a problem.
...
The requirement to show a very specific TYPE of state-issued Photo ID that many largely Dem-leaning voters don't have is, however, an impediment to some 21 million legally registered voters who do not own that type of very narrow, state-issued Photo ID.

OK, HAVA requires ID for voter registration and it is a Federal law so it applies in California and Texas both.

Now what does California say about it?

Website: California Online Voter Registration

What You Will Need
To register online you will need

• Your California driver license or California identification card number,
  
• The last four digits of your social security number and
  
• Your date of birth.
  

So you DO provide ID to the online registration system, either your Driver's License or your State ID - IN ORDER TO REGISTER.

But wait, there's more:

(Website: California Secretary of State: Elections: Frequently Asked Questions)

Am I automatically registered to vote when I submit the online application?

No. The online voter registration application is another easy avenue for submitting your information but the information you provide in your online application still must be verified by your county elections official. If you have a California driver license or identification card and submit an online voter registration application, the Department of Motor Vehicles is simply sharing a copy of your signature on file so that it can be transferred to your voter registration record. No matter how you turn in your registration application – online or on paper – when it comes to determining a person's eligibility to vote, preventing duplicate registrations, and adding a person to California's official voter rolls, all the same safeguards are in place. Your county elections official will contact you when your voter registration application is approved or when more information is needed to confirm your eligibility.

So California DOES use the information you provide to VERIFY your eligibility. If you have a driver's license or other ID, it can reference the information you provided the DMV to perform that verification. If you don't have those ID's, you need to fill out the forms they provide to supply that information. If the County registrar needs more info from you, they will contact you and ask. Notice that one of the pieces of information that is required is your legal signature, which they get either from your existing records at the DMV or from the form you have filled out.

The controversy we are discussing is about Election Day In-Person Voting.

(League of Women Voters of California: In Person Voting)

SIGN IN:

• You will be asked your name and a poll worker will find your name on the list of registered voters.
  
• You do not have to produce any identification unless you are a first time voter who registered by mail. In this case, bring your California drivers license or identification card.
  
• You will be asked to sign your name in the list of registered voters.
  
• If a primary election, you will be given a ballot for a political party or a nonpartisan ballot. Read about your choices.
  
• You may vote only once in any election.
  
• See "Provisional Ballot" for what you can do if your name is not on the list.
  

Notice that you do not need ID at the Polling Station of any kind, unless it is your first time to vote and you registered by mail. The information you receive from the County Registrar will inform you of this requirement when they notify you of your successful registration.

An additional lesson that I would like you to takeaway from the above discussion is that it took me perhaps 30 seconds to find the procedure and rules for California. Google is your friend.

You could have saved yourself the embarrassment of exposing yourself as an unthinking poster, more interested in unfounded assertions that you hope will fool other unthinking posters; an ideologue, willing to do or say anything, with no regard for truth, to forward an argument that has no legs to stand on when looked at too closely.

a reply to: Masterjaden

The minute you can tell me how if ID isn't used to verify that the person registered is that actual person that voted, THEN I'll believe that it isn't rampant, and as soon as you can show me how they verify that people who register to vote are actually eligible to vote, THEN, I will believe that voter fraud isn't rampant, until then, you're swallowing their bs hook line and sinker but I won't...

So that's taken care of then?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
I just love how the "non racists" here are so comfortable with implying (or heck, stating outright) that the poor and minorities are just too lazy or irresponsible or too busy mooching "government free stuff" all of which clearly and obviously reflect racist and classist ideology, but then, when someone points that garbage out, fingers can't fly fast enough to dismiss it with "oh yeah, play the race card."

The new Voter ID laws are not keeping anyone from faking votes that was faking them before ... for the same reason that denying drivers licenses, voter registration cards and even utility bills as ID isn't.

Because it's just not happening in any meaningful or appreciable numbers.

If this is needed to stop rampant Voter Fraud then demonstrate, any of you who care to, where the rampant Voter Fraud is happening.

Is that so hard?

Is this your statement?
"The new Voter ID laws are not keeping anyone from faking votes that was faking them before"

Then you blew your case. I keep reading your posts, and you keep stating how difficult it is for minorities and the poor to obtain photo ID, so tell us why? I know of no place where people MUST have a special ID to vote. Any type of government issued ID with a photo on it is acceptable. You say not college ID's. Nobody in college ever had a drivers license? You keep telling us how difficult it is for minorities and the poor to obtain documents to obtain a photo ID, so in my mind, you appear to be the racist and classist individual we are supposed to be. You play the race card? Fine with me, I'm not complaining.

I feel very strongly you need to look within, as you will not give the minorities and poor the credit they deserve. When you realize the state issued ID's for voting purposes only, are not required, but rather an alternative for those that have none, you have no argument. Geez!