ISIS and Ghengis Khan

I would like to examine similarities between the Mongols and the Islamic State.

wiki

The success of Mongol tactics hinged on fear: to induce capitulation amongst enemy populations. From the perspective of modern theories of international relations, Quester suggests that, "Perhaps terrorism produced a fear that immobilized and incapacitated the forces that would have resisted."[6] Although perceived as being bloodthirsty, the Mongol strategy of "surrender or die" still recognized that conquest by capitulation was more desirable than being forced to continually expend soldiers, food, and money to fight every army and sack every town and city along the campaign's route.

Key word capitulation.

Thus whenever possible, by using the "promise" of wholesale execution for resistance, Mongol forces made efficient conquests, in turn allowing them to attack multiple targets and redirect soldiers and matériel where most needed.

When I read this.... This comes to mind.

The Guardian

Iraq is facing its gravest test since the US-led invasion more than a decade ago, after its army capitulated to Islamist insurgents who have seized four cities and pillaged military bases and banks, in a lightning campaign which seems poised to fuel a cross-border insurgency endangering the entire region.

Here is one example while I look for others. Key word capitulation.

From Google.

ca·pit·u·la·tion
kəˌpiCHəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
the action of surrendering or ceasing to resist an opponent or demand.

Now I am interested in what happens in relation to the future of Bhagdad.

CNN

"They have been defending themselves with great courage. But they are now very close to not being able to do so. They are fighting with normal weapons, whereas the ISIS has got tanks and mortars," Staffan de Mistura, the U.N. special envoy for Syria, said in a statement. "The international community needs to defend them. The international community cannot sustain another city falling under ISIS."

Kobani now next Bagdad.

wiki

The Siege of Baghdad, which lasted from January 29 until February 10, 1258, entailed the investment, capture, and sacking of Baghdad, the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate, by Ilkhanate Mongol forces and allied troops. The Mongols were under the command of Hulagu Khan, brother of the khagan Möngke Khan, and had intended to further extend their rule into Mesopotamia but not to directly overthrow the Caliphate. Möngke, however, had instructed Hulagu to attack Baghdad if the Caliph Al-Musta'sim refused Mongol demands for his continued submission to the khagan and the payment of tribute in the form of military support for Mongol forces in Iran.

The Mongols executed Al-Musta'sim and massacred many residents of the city, which was left greatly depopulated.

If we see a similar situation happen now then will we pay closer attention to Nostradamus and other prophecy regarding the area?

a reply to: onequestion

And Ebola would make a great parallel for bubonic plague. The bubonic plague was going on during the Mongol invasion of Europe and Genghis Khan helped spread it by catapulting infected corpses.

wwwnc.cdc.gov...

The Mongols ignored Western Europe for strategic reasons and this led to the rise of Western Europe as a dominant power.

suite.io...

Is it any wonder that history is given so little thought in America. It's by far considered the last useful subject. Thank God for those in charge because knowledge of history would make everything clear.

More suspicious links for Ebola being a not so natural thing. The difference between then and now is that the modern Mongols are safe across the ocean and have global hegemony in place already.

a reply to: tavi45

Who are you referencing when you say Mongols?

And I teresting connection with the plague.

originally posted by: onequestion
I would like to examine similarities between the Mongols and the Islamic State.

wiki

The success of Mongol tactics hinged on fear: to induce capitulation amongst enemy populations. From the perspective of modern theories of international relations, Quester suggests that, "Perhaps terrorism produced a fear that immobilized and incapacitated the forces that would have resisted."[6] Although perceived as being bloodthirsty, the Mongol strategy of "surrender or die" still recognized that conquest by capitulation was more desirable than being forced to continually expend soldiers, food, and money to fight every army and sack every town and city along the campaign's route.

Key word capitulation.

Thus whenever possible, by using the "promise" of wholesale execution for resistance, Mongol forces made efficient conquests, in turn allowing them to attack multiple targets and redirect soldiers and matériel where most needed.

When I read this.... This comes to mind.

The Guardian

Iraq is facing its gravest test since the US-led invasion more than a decade ago, after its army capitulated to Islamist insurgents who have seized four cities and pillaged military bases and banks, in a lightning campaign which seems poised to fuel a cross-border insurgency endangering the entire region.

Here is one example while I look for others. Key word capitulation.

From Google.

ca·pit·u·la·tion
kəˌpiCHəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
the action of surrendering or ceasing to resist an opponent or demand.

Now I am interested in what happens in relation to the future of Bhagdad.

CNN

"They have been defending themselves with great courage. But they are now very close to not being able to do so. They are fighting with normal weapons, whereas the ISIS has got tanks and mortars," Staffan de Mistura, the U.N. special envoy for Syria, said in a statement. "The international community needs to defend them. The international community cannot sustain another city falling under ISIS."

Kobani now next Bagdad.

wiki

The Siege of Baghdad, which lasted from January 29 until February 10, 1258, entailed the investment, capture, and sacking of Baghdad, the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate, by Ilkhanate Mongol forces and allied troops. The Mongols were under the command of Hulagu Khan, brother of the khagan Möngke Khan, and had intended to further extend their rule into Mesopotamia but not to directly overthrow the Caliphate. Möngke, however, had instructed Hulagu to attack Baghdad if the Caliph Al-Musta'sim refused Mongol demands for his continued submission to the khagan and the payment of tribute in the form of military support for Mongol forces in Iran.

The Mongols executed Al-Musta'sim and massacred many residents of the city, which was left greatly depopulated.

If we see a similar situation happen now then will we pay closer attention to Nostradamus and other prophecy regarding the area?

when I was about 5 my dad told me that we were related to ghengis khan, from then on for many years I would have a repetitive nightmare that ghengis khan was chasing me on a giant combine harvester that was so wide I could only run forwards. Maybe that was a proffetic?. So bit off the subject slightly.. I think the violence and oppression in the middle has gone for so many generations it is in their genetic memory. Peace and lentils to all.

a reply to: onequestion

I actually thought the same thing these are well organised individuals with a reasonable grip on strategy and tactics,the only thing stopping them taking Bagdhad is the question do they really want it,it would be a commitment of a large percentage of their force to do civil and popular administration in a city that size.

a reply to: Cloudbuster

I got a lot of flack for the genetic memory thread in regards to the Middle East agreeing with your sentiment.

originally posted by: khnum
a reply to: onequestion

I actually thought the same thing these are well organised individuals with a reasonable grip on strategy and tactics,the only thing stopping them taking Bagdhad is the question do they really want it,it would be a commitment of a large percentage of their force to do civil and popular administration in a city that size.

Very well organized and they have had ten years to collect data.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Cloudbuster

I got a lot of flack for the genetic memory thread in regards to the Middle East agreeing with your sentiment.

yes even water has memory and we are is it 75% water?

the Khan had two things working in his favour,,

His God and His,,,sword,,

Does Bagdadi have the fabled Sword of God?

or "Sword of Allah" which belonged to Gengus,,
as a Covenant between The Khahn and His God.

yes the fabled Sword u see on most Arab banners.

belonged too Gengus Khan.

Saladin

I think saladin is more interesting than khan when it comes to analysing the current caliphate.
He held the entire of Egypt to Syria with Iraq n all including Jerusalem all for the Muslims, it was the grandest sunni caliphate of all time... Look in to that one

a reply to: onequestion

Well I'm definitely not referring to ISIS. Last I checked they have no ocean separating them from Africa. I thought the identity of the fear mongering horde of modern times was obvious.

a reply to: onequestion

Mongols, and ISIS ...

Are you people for real? I mean, is there absolutely no brain in your heads. There is no similarity between Mongols and ISIS, except in your idiotic head.

The Mongols won, not by fear mongering ... but by speed. They were horsemen, and they peed and did their pooey on horseback, riding fiercely without a stop.

That was the key to their success ...

I mean, what is wrong with you people? Is idiotcy heritary ... is this the birth of the "backwards and stupid" age? What did they call it, during the acid trip age ... Age of Acquarius?

ISIS is just like Saudi Arabia ... they behead people for criminal transgressions, and cut off their hands for thievery. Since the people in the middle east, have been living with this "terror" for what ... hundreds of years now, since what ... the 5th century AD.

This is unbelievable stupidity ...

The plague, or black death, that Kengis Kahn caused ... was a last act, as the plague was actually amongst his own men. The mongols got this desease under their seige, and to "cleanse" themselves they threw the bodies and dying over and into the city and then left the rest ... saving themselves.

This "last" part of history, is actually open to discussion ... as it's most likely a falsehood. Even if you threw a few bodies over the wall, it wouldn't cause the plague. The plague was most likely already there, and then found itself out of the walls with the rats ... seeing the plague, the Mongols immediately ran ... leaving their own dead behind.

This is the more "likely" scenario ...

Where on earth is your logic ... if I may ask. You need to apply logic to history, and going something like ...

Mongols = evil
ISIS = evil

=> ISIS = Mongols

Is being totally braindead ... evil is subjective. Your GOD, is my Devil ... to me YOU are evil. Just as My god is your Devil, and to YOU I appear to be Evil.

That's what the word "subjective" means ... and any man with half a brain, can read through the subjective history and know it's not to be taken too seriously. Weed out the "facts" from the interpretation of the "priests", so to speak. Whenever this is in the text, "And he was marked 666, and evil and ugly" ... you can discard it, as crap.

a reply to: BobAthome

Möngke got the sword off the dead body of Guyuk the Khan he was accompanying to raid the Territories of Batu in Russia... Guyuk was a sorry excuse for a Khan as he was petty and hated administration of the empire plus he was way to Chinese in his mannerisms for many of the Mongol generals. With the armies march to destroy Batu he and his servant went hunting with his favorite (some say eagle others say hawk).. Batu fought with sword and killed both. It was an honor killing for he could have killed him/them with a simple shot from his bow.

Batu had been warned by Kublai that the army was coming to destroy his holdings because he had refused to swear allegiance to Guyuk during the great gathering (Batu was absent) . Batu lay in wait for almost a week when the army stopped form the days march; waiting for a chance at Guyuk whose habits were widely known.

When the search party found the bodies the next day the great Wolf's head sword was cleaned and laying on the body of Guyuk... Even so the dead servant was blamed for the death of the Khan and Mongke was nominated Khan at the next great gathering.

Mongke was a traditional Mongol who hated the soft ways of the Chinese and one of his first acts when he returned to Karakorum was to beat and chase most of the Chinese advisers to Guyuk out of the city with orders to the guards that if their faces were seen in the city to cut their heads off..

Mongke, Kublai, Hulegu and Arik-Boke were all brothers and grand sons of Genghis. When Mongke became Khan he sent his brothers out to finish what Genghis had started.

Kublai founded the Yuan Dynasty of China after defeating the Sung empire.

A little known fact was that Genghis almost single handily wiped out Islam and was called the great destroyer.

On topic of the Op. Tactical considerations using barbarism Like the Mongols, Alexander the great, and many other conquers of the ancient world is alive a well even today... Look no farther than the Drug cartels, in particular Los Zetas of the Mexican drug cartel, the Triad, and or the Mafia.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Is idiotcy heritary ... is this the birth of the "backwards and stupid" age?

The irony of deeming others idiotic while not being able to spell idiocy....LOL
I see you all over these boards and mostly all I see is you bashing others....do you have anything productive to add? A rebuttal of merit?
"Backwards and stupid" indeed, but it isn't those you are bashing that have this problem.

The man is relaying some thoughts and opinions, why bash them? Why not just stay out of the thread if you are so "annoyed" by the "idiotcy" (as you say) herein?

.......
On topic.....just watching the thread develop...Nothing much to add at the moment, but I will be lurking and reading opinions.

(P.S......where are the mods? Did they forget that the T&C forbids personal attacks? I would think implying others are "stupid" and "idiotic" falls within the definition of a personal attack.......meh, oh well, it is what it is.......Just SO sick of those who find it necessary polluting such a wonderful site where we can all express our "crazy" ideals and opinions)

a reply to: onequestion

Wasn't the major motivator behind ghengis khan's rampage revenge for the attacks by Islam in Central Asia?

ETA See sky727's post above

a reply to: Jakal26

(P.S......where are the mods? Did they forget that the T&C forbids personal attacks? I would think implying others are "stupid" and "idiotic" falls within the definition of a personal attack.......meh,

There was no personal attack anywhere in their post.


Yes the posters pointed out an ignorance that is plaguing a few threads of days gone by.

I found the comparison quite weak as well and was going to point it out but have been quite critical today in other threads so I thought I will tone it down or just shut up.

meh, oh well, it is what it is.......Just SO sick of those who find it necessary polluting such a wonderful site where we can all express our "crazy" ideals and opinions)

The man is relaying some thoughts and opinions, why bash them?

If anothers opinion is bashing then OP was bashing and everyone posting is bashing each other if their opinions clash right?

Look I know the language used could easily be taken to heart but seriously over the net if you get upset by what another anonymous poster posts then maybe take a break or readjust your tolerance levels or simply let posts go.

You post in frustration because words on the screen upset you and you end up posting something like this quoted above.

I think everyone is posting their opinions its how each posters opinions are interpreted is what causes issues and creates heated arguments that lead to post banning and worse.

a reply to: mindseye1609

I'm looking at the modus operandi s they use in their campaign, mainly the use of capitulation for the capture of cities.

This is mostly a reference to Nostradamus.

I'm trying to think of another instance where capitulation was one of the main methods used but I cant.

a reply to: mindseye1609

The main reason for the Mongols invasion of most of Eurasia was a deep understanding of politics (though the Mongols in general and Genghis Khan in particular certainly were motivated by revenge, especially in central Asia but more so in China) After uniting the nomadic tribes of Mongolia Temujin (Genghis Khan) realized that his newly created nation would tear itself apart without an external enemy. Thus began the Golden Horde.

They began in China and only stopped when they had to. The devastation they caused in the Middle East led to a massive shortfall in the Silk Road trade which the Mongols relied on for wealth. The black plague (which started in China) also tore apart their base of power in the Middle East and China. The Mongols carried the plague west with them. It only entered Western Europe by ship (the only thing Americans were taught about the black plague). Those Venetian ships came from trading in the eastern Mediterranean (where the horde had already spread the disease).

As shown in the article in my earlier post the Mongol/Bubonic plague double whammy devastated China (the Han Chinese were the bottom of their racism pyramid, considered soft and weak), Russia (Rus princes became Mongol vassals), Eastern Europe and the entire Middle East.

This power and knowledge vacuum led almost directly to the rise of Western Europe's dominance. The Mongols may have had the greatest effect on modern history of any one group.

Fun factoid - Genghis Khan is the most prolific ancestor in history as of now. Him and his descendants passed on their genetic legacy to 0.5% of humanity.

www.iflscience.com...