Georgia SWAT Kills Grandfather in No-Knock Drug Raid that Finds No Drugs

a reply to: Bassago

Ironic you say this..

Older people know my stance on guns because well the 2nd amendment and all..

I do not like guns but glad the 2nd amendment is there so we can use it if need me..

My wife and I have been seriously talking about getting a few fire arms recently considering all the shady sh*t the police are doing..

So I would say you are right.. on what you said.

I am so disgusted. There is no help.

at this stage, I'm honestly not sure why anyone cares. Surely it's just a time factor now on whether or not the lot of us end up shot by cops or in their prisons?

Why bother fighting it.

a reply to: XTexan

Exactly, how is kicking in a door at 3am "safer" than apprehending the guy while he is out driving or mowing his lawn or countless other scenarios that make FAR more sense.

This quote pretty much nails it. As bad as no knock raids are, the courts that rubber stamp them and the farce that is the war on drugs, none of those are the biggest problem.

The biggest problem is the complete and total lack of common sense, integrity and professionalism that is displayed by law enforcement in executing these types of things. This situation could have been avoided with just the smallest amount of surveillance and forethought for safety.

One last thing, the word of a self admitted meth head IS NOT probable cause to raid somebody's home. Just because an idiot judge said so doesn't make it true.

I've said it once, and I'll say a million times more. End the war on drugs. This nonsense will stop overnight.

originally posted by: ArmyOfNobunaga

Its all despicable man. IT is. But I refuse to blame the grunt doing his job. In the brief he doesn't have the ability to raise his hand and say "Hey, maybe this is a bad idea and a violation of rights... and potentially endangering civilians and us"... It don't work that way.


We agree on a lot but the culpability of a guy doing his job at the ground level when society accepts this.. we do not agree.

Nazi's were just grunts following orders, and it gave them no protection at Nuremburg. I refuse to accept that an individual is not responsible for his own individual actions. "Following orders" is the worst excuse you can use.

They ARE supposed to raise their hands. It DOES work that way. Imagine had an officer raised his hand in briefing before this raid.....would they have gone through with it. If they had, then his testimony becomes a huge liability for them, as he pointed out it was wrong and they went forward anyway.

It is illegal to follow illegal orders. As a private, a 4 star general cannot lawfully command you to murder a group of women and their babies with a flame thrower. If you do it after the order is given, then its on you.

No, i blame them completely.

a reply to: ArmyOfNobunaga

The honest answer, if they would admit it is: The Rush. That feeling of going in, kicking some ass and high fiving your buddies. All that gear and guns make them feel invincible and they just LOVE to use them." Look at Me!!" " I'm a hard core bad ass heart breakin' life takin' motherfu**er!!!!!"
Too bad most of them will sh** their pants and scream like a little girl if someone actually fires a weapon at them.

a reply to: NthOther

So a meth addict, combing the streets for stuff to steal so he can buy meth, comes upon a bag of meth and suddenly becomes “scared for his safety”.

It'll be interesting if said meth addict gets off with a stern talking to because he led police on a wild goose chase.

btw, there's no mention of the bag of meth, ie did he turn it in or was that part made up in order to justify the raid and eventual shooting of an innocent man?

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: Pinke
Its a very ill concieved strategy that pretty much guarantys there will be carnage, the excuse is to prevent destruction of whatever material they are after also shock and disorient as well. The drug laws need to be rethought.

Thank you for the response!

Guess I'm just hoping that an American police officer can maybe explain why it happens in more detail. What you say makes sense for sure, I'd just hope there is something deeper to it than that. You know like a billion cops get shot a year by meth dealers or something (being a dork but you know what I mean).

a reply to: Bassago

Despite their protestations otherwise, the police have superior firepower in these cases.

One armed citizen against 10 heavily armed police officers will lose every time.

a reply to: NthOther

People if you are going to be armed in your house, the second your door breaks in you have to start shooting. You are not going to get a chance to live otherwise. As soon as these cowards see a gun they commence to shoot and if your lucky one of them will say drop the gun while your dying. Police need to have Rules of Engagement period. They obviously don't have the courage to restrain themselves so we must do it for them through legislation.

c'mon, America is a police state, this is happening all over. police are now trained that every civilian is out to harm them, and they are in constant fear for their life...this wouldn't be happening if in their training this was not emphasized. same o, same o.

1...if you have lots of cash in your car, you are buying drugs, cash taken, you're arrested.
2...if you ask why a policeman is detaining you, you are a threat to him and you are arrested
3...if you tell a policeman he can't do something because it's illegal, you are obstructing justice, and you're arrested.
4...if a policeman gives you an order and you don't immediately do it, you're arrested.
5...if you tell a policeman "I won't show you my ID", you're suspected of being a criminal.
6...if you are just sitting in your car, or out somewhere in public doing nothing, you're suspected of criminality.
7... if you move too fast, you are going for a gun and they might feel threatened, and shoot
8...if you put your hand in your pocket, you could be going for a gun and they might feel threatened and shoot
9...if you turn around, away from the officer, you might be going for a gun and they might feel threatened, and shoot
10..if you reach into any container, you might be going for a gun and they might feel threatened, and shoot

any interactions with LEO's must be treated as if you are coming upon a baby deer. move slowly, don't talk, no quick moves, stay a safe distance away, hands always in sight and holding nothing.

I'm stunned and outraged that, following the horrible injuries to that toddler in GA this summer who was injured on a no-knock warrant execution - that there hasn't been some review or oversight to the application of these warrants?

a reply to: boneoracle

Every cop involved in that raid should have been disappeared by now. There is NO reasoning that makes injuring a baby like that logical.

a reply to: vonclod
He can be charged with anything they want to charge him with but a jury in Texas will nullify
it post haste. They were the aggressors and got what they deserved. Juries everywhere have to make that clear to the police NO MORE.

originally posted by: Bassago
a reply to: NthOther

Honest law abiding citizens need to spend more time on the gun ranges to improve their shooting and self defense skills. It's the only way we'll ever be safe from these militarized thugs.

You know I do bud... You know I do...

Let me just say this. I'm an Australian. But if a crackhead were to tell the police that my dad was selling drugs, and the police did a no-knock search and bashed in my dads door and my dad out of fear of the protection of himself and his wife, my mum, was carrying a shotgun for protection and the police shot my father to death.... I would hunt down and murder every single one of those police officers.

Maybe i'm a bit psycho... But I honestly think that is the route that I would take.

I mean... Eye for an eye right?

Or are the relatives just happy that this person was murdered? I mean come on guys. This is murder by police endorsed by the state... I would literally lose my mind if this were to happen to me. Why don't other people?

Is it just me? Am i nuts? What would you guys personally do if this happened to your Dad?

a reply to: DaRAGE

because DaRAGE, we Americans are crap-our-pants scared of LEO's here. our local, state, and federal governments have done nothing to discourage this type of treatment toward it's own citizens. the training has changed from an LEO being helpful, to an LEO being suspicious, of it's citizens....the feds even send military surplus automatic assault rifles, armored vehicles, body armor,...etc., to local law enforcement agencies. any person with an IQ above 80 is getting the message loud and clear.

a reply to: Pinke
I would bet more cops been killed in "no knocks" than by actual meth dealers per se..not sure that kind of stat is compiled, I get ya though..there is no rationale.
Good news is the dude in Texas who killed a LEO during one of these recent raids will not be charged..thank god some common sense prevailed and maybee the whole issue will be looked into.

originally posted by: DaRAGE
Is it just me? Am i nuts? What would you guys personally do if this happened to your Dad?

You're not nuts... My first reaction would be to take the agency for everything they're worth - I'd like the M-Wraps parked in my driveway please. If through some astounding stupidity on the part of the judicial system they weren't indicted and I wasn't thoroughly reimbursed ... Have you ever seen 'Shooter'?