Germany 2014

Germany in 2014, by any metric used is one is the strongest economic powers in the world. Since coming to office the new Defense Minister has been pushing to add a worldwide military capability, changing the Bundeswehr from a primarily regional force to one that can operate anywhere on their own.

Unfortunately, at the same time, the Bundeswehr is falling apart. Technologically the German military is as advanced as any out there. Operationally it's a different story.

Here are just a few examples:

Typhoon- Germany owns 109 aircraft. Of those, 74 are available and only 42 are deployable. All of them suffer a manufacturing defect that led to new deliveries being stopped and flight hours cut in half.

Tornado- 89, 68 available, 38 deployable.

CH-53 83, 43, 16 deployable.

The defense minister recently travelled to Kurdish held lands to deliver weapons to help fight ISIS. They were supposed to arrive at tgr same time. When she got there, she was notified the weapons were in Germany waiting on a Dutch aircraft because the German Transall carrying them broke.


www.defense-aerospace.com...’t-deliver.html

Is it due to the post WW2 restrictions that may make things more difficult for a german armed force to operate compared to any other such as limits of size of forces so if they've only got 1 plane of its type allowed under the rules and like anything the moment you need it you know it'll break but surely it doesn't take much effort to pick up a phone and ring around a few other local countries and see if they've got a working plane able to do the delivery available and unless its mean to be a photo call i doubt anyones really going to notice the german weapons are arriving on a spanish transport plane

a reply to: Zaphod58

and to top it off the majority of their soldiers are conscripts...when i was over there they just didnt seem motivated..the entire country is all "make love not war" and that is why it is such a cool place to live.

With the recent developments though I could see some money being thrown towards the military....but its such a great place cause they spend their money on other things besides the military!

a reply to: Zaphod58

Plus the Rebels stole their plans for the Death Star.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

They can still find a good balance that works for them, but if they want to be known as more than a regional power, which it seems they to, they'll have to spend more on the military.

With Germany bailing out many countries in Europe to the tune of Billions, it doesn't surprise me the Germans haven't been upgrading their Military. I also think it might have something to do the future EU army and spreading the cost around Europe of building one. I think the timetable for that project has been pushed back because of the Economics within Europe at the present moment.

Just my 2 cents.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Be it the military or public service top jobs , the kids that got picked up on the short bus seem to have worked their way to all the top jobs in those posts .

They could not organise a piss up in a brewery if their life depended on it i am sad to say , but little has changed in Europe in 100 years in that respect , god help us if we ever have to go to war in a big way again , my friends had to buy their own kit to serve in Afganistan/and Iraq .


The lunatics really are running the asylum and have been for a while during ww2 50 % of German vehicles broke down and were lost

a reply to: Zaphod58

Was it a case of,,,






or maybe,, opppss



we will never know.

originally posted by: douglas5
a reply to: Zaphod58

Be it the military or public service top jobs , the kids that got picked up on the short bus seem to have worked their way to all the top jobs in those posts .

They could not organise a piss up in a brewery if their life depended on it i am sad to say , but little has changed in Europe in 100 years in that respect , god help us if we ever have to go to war in a big way again , my friends had to buy their own kit to serve in Afganistan/and Iraq .


The lunatics really are running the asylum and have been for a while during ww2 50 % of German vehicles broke down and were lost

Good job Ford trucks were produced in France and Germany then!(Which were highly prized in the German armed forces)

a reply to: pikestaff

I think they used Citroens as well to invade Russia if i remember correctly , A fair bit of trading with the enemy went on when you look back at things

The Bundeswehr, for the LONGEST...basically since the end of WW2 and all throughout the cold war and even today is really merely a "prestige thing". At least for me.

You have to realize the unique location of Germany in the midst of Europe bordered by many countries and of course by the (former) Eastern block.

We Germans KNEW for decades that *every* conflict between East and West would result in a total destruction of Germany. he first thing which would've happened would be the invasion and likely nuking of Germany. Knowing this, I always regarded the Bundeswehr as sort of a joke and merely a status thing and not something which would be of value should there be a real conflict.

Also....Germany is extremely anti-military and I highly doubt that (as you think) "Germany wants be be known more than as only a regional power"..at least not in terms of military.

Even smaller engagement like deployment of some to Afghanistan etc. is met with heavy criticism in the media, amongst politicians and people...and all know...it's really little more than a prestige/status thing.

Germany has simply no interest in spending more on its military, in fact I think it has no interest WHATSOEVER to actually engage anywhere in conflict. You buy our weapons, we help with engineering Typhoons and whatnot....you give us your money...but we don't *want to* be active in conflict. This is really how I see it.

originally posted by: douglas5
I think they used Citroens as well to invade Russia if i remember correctly...

No wonder it failed.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: douglas5
I think they used Citroens as well to invade Russia if i remember correctly...

No wonder it failed.

I think it was a severe weather system that held them back , giving the Russians time to re group and arm , but i am sure they were at the doors of Moscow just like 1745 when the Jacobites were 12 miles from London and turned back how different history might be , as with the Tunguska in 1908 if it had hit Europe 30 seconds earlier history would be very different today

originally posted by: douglas5
I think it was a severe weather system that held them back...

You can hold back a Citroen with a lot less than severe weather, an infant pushing on the bumper could do the trick as well.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I had a Citroen visa 652 cc 30 years ago and i loved the little thing once it was up to 80 mph it was great and super on fuel ,you would not believe how much you could throw those little cars around in corners but they were death traps if you crashed , i saw one smashed at 30 mph front on the driver lost both legs in that smash which made me drive Saabs or volvo after that

a reply to: Zaphod58

Here is a good one for you Zaphod

Former RAF pilot and wife turned their idea into a £13m business website for private jets!'

www.dailymail.co.uk... rivate-jets-worth-13MILLION.html

Remember poor me when you are super rich

But we already know the west is in decline. We all make fun of the Chinese military for some reason, but their stuff is in far better shape than ours - even if our theoretical capability is better.

originally posted by: douglas5
I had a Citroen visa 652 cc

30 years ago and i loved the little thing once it was up to 80 mph...

How did you get it up to 80 MPH? Did it fall out of a helicopter?

Call me silly but I always tend to get a little nervous when Germany begins to arm again. I know that its nothing like the 30s now but as the biggest player in the EU, it can dictate the defense of not just Germany, but everyone else 'cept Great Britain if it came down to it. With regards to the weapons of the past, Germany has a long standing tradition of over-engineering just about everything. It works great in peacetime products like cars, if one has time to work out the kinks and the budget to keep it tuned. Tanks and other complex machines warfare not so much.
So many people talk about the "fearsome" tiger and king tiger tanks built by Ferd Porsche and they were very formidable, but chances are if you saw one, it was most likely out of gas in the Ardenne or broken down.

Granted, if I were a tank crew member that's the one I would have wanted to be in but as a General or arms minister: Give me the T-34 all day long.

a reply to: georgezip

Said Napoleon,
to General Zhukov.
"God is on the side with the most tanks."

Caesar.

Give me the T-34 all day long