Ebola 'could become airborne': United Nations warns

a reply to: loam

I have to agree. What we are being told and what is happening is in complete disconnect from each other. One minute we are told it is contained and there is nothing to worry about, the next minute there is a new hot spot in a different country and dozens more are infected.

The same applies with what was initially reported with the Dallas patient. One minute he was not contagious until admitted and it was contained, the next day he had contact with 18 people, and today that number is upwards of 80.

I understand they don't want panic, but they should at least be honest about the situation at hand.

a reply to: soficrow

I thought that it was common knowledge that the chances of mutation grow with each manifestation of the virus, each time it passes from one person to another?

Ah well, my mistake. The reason to deal with this Ebola situation ought to be because no one, no matter where they live, no matter how poor we might consider their existence, should be at risk of dying in such a terrifying, and utterly devastating manner. The chances of a virus spreading its area of infection, or mutating beyond our ability to cope with it at all, is a SECONDARY consideration, to the main humanitarian point.

However, it is absolutely necessary for all that can be done to prevent a mutation scenario coming to pass, that is obvious, and all that could have been done, has not been done. For example, the fact that there are still cases unaccounted for in the affected regions is unacceptable. If the world governments can find individuals using satellite look downs for anti-terror purposes, then they should be doing it for this purpose, instead, at the expense of all other territorial and extra territorial security concerns.

This and other similar re-deployments of forces and material, including military personnel in military grade HAZMAT gear, should have been deployed to affected regions to help contain the infected, and ensure the safety of patients and doctors, against the threat of assault, and the airports leading in and out of those areas should have been locked down by the UN and all access in or out, by anyone other than medical personnel should have been banned, twenty four hours after the outbreak.

Frankly, there are two ways to deal with this situation. The way it has been dealt with so far, which is ineffectual, and largely pathetic, or with an iron fist, with so tight a grip, that only once the virus has been squeezed, and starved to death, will its grip relent. The second might work, and the first is a waste of time.

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: Rodinus

Thanks Rodinus. As stated in the OP, experts say it's "unlikely" Ebola will mutate to be airborne in humans - even though the virus already is airborne in pigs. However, the more human hosts infected, the greater the risk a mutation allowing efficient airborne transmission will emerge. So the argument is this: it is NOT worth the risk, however small, to allow the Ebola epidemic to continue unabated in West Africa because the risk of efficient airborne mutation increases with every new human host.

You are welcome.

Ever since the very first known Ebola outbreak in Zaire back in 1976 absolutely tons of research was carried out in swine to swine and swine to primate possible airborne contamination.

A snippet of one of those studies carried out is here :

Ebola viruses (EBOV) cause often fatal hemorrhagic fever in several species of simian primates including human. While fruit bats are considered natural reservoir, involvement of other species in EBOV transmission is unclear. In 2009, Reston-EBOV was the first EBOV detected in swine with indicated transmission to humans. In-contact transmission of Zaire-EBOV (ZEBOV) between pigs was demonstrated experimentally. Here we show ZEBOV transmission from pigs to cynomolgus macaques without direct contact. Interestingly, transmission between macaques in similar housing conditions was never observed. Piglets inoculated oro-nasally with ZEBOV were transferred to the room housing macaques in an open inaccessible cage system. All macaques became infected. Infectious virus was detected in oro-nasal swabs of piglets, and in blood, swabs, and tissues of macaques. This is the first report of experimental interspecies virus transmission, with the macaques also used as a human surrogate. Our finding may influence prevention and control measures during EBOV outbreaks.

Full article can be found here : www.nature.com...

Taking into consideration the amount of Ebola outbreaks that have happened in the past : roughly 26, I think that Ebola (any of the strains) would have had plenty of time to mutate into an airborn contamination already.

Methinks that the current outbreak is due to lack of education with locals, logistics, money and just plain old lack of response from many ouside countries who have the means of helping.

I personally have worked in BSL level 2, 3 and 4 labs and of course the main question that people will say is "OK if Ebola cannot be contacted by airborn route, then why wear positive pressure Hazmat suits or have so much protection under BSL 4 conditions?"

The simple answer is, you can never be too careful when working with emerging tropical diseases (especially filoviruses such as Ebola, Marburg... in pure form in a test tube or agar dish the risk is possibly always there...

In an outbreak or isolated case among humans, just how the virus is transmitted from the natural reservoir to a human is unknown. Once a human is infected, however, person-to-person transmission is the means by which further infections occur. Specifically, transmission involves close personal contact between an infected individual or their body fluids, and another person. During recorded outbreaks of hemorrhagic fever caused by a Filovirus infection, persons who cared for (fed, washed, medicated) or worked very closely with infected individuals were especially at risk of becoming infected themselves. Nosocomial (hospital) transmission through contact with infected body fluids - via reuse of unsterilized syringes, needles, or other medical equipment contaminated with these fluids - has also been an important factor in the spread of disease. When close contact between uninfected and infected persons is minimized, the number of new Filovirus infections in humans usually declines. Although in the laboratory the viruses display some capability of infection through small-particle aerosols, airborne spread among humans has not been clearly demonstrated.

More here : www.cdc.gov...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

Ebola can be transferred through the air somewhat just as the flu is. They just don't want to incite panic. It does not get transferred as well as many other viruses but still gets transferred. A good mucosal immunity may help to protect us somewhat.

Can you imagine what it could do to our economy if everyone stayed home from work or away from the stores because they were afraid of getting Ebola from the air?

a reply to: soficrow

I understand that they can't halt flights totally because of 'Health' Workers but what I'm saying is that they can stop ordinary people from flying in and out of the affected Country's who don't need to be over there.... lets face it, why are ordinary folk still flying to affected areas???

Every time I read of a new 'possible' case or in this case... a person with the virus' in another Country, I am shaking my head saying 'wtf did you go to Liberia or whatever when you knew there is a pretty bad situation going on'.??

This thing is either deliberate or not and I'm beginning to believe that it's being transferred deliberately around...

Why aren't people using their Brains? Or are they so mashed, they don't have much of a Brain!!

a reply to: loam

A very suspicious choice.

Are you referring to his statement that "we are all connected by the air that we breathe?". I found that to be quite creepy indeed...

originally posted by: Rodinus
Ever since the very first known Ebola outbreak in Zaire back in 1976 absolutely tons of research was carried out in swine to swine and swine to primate possible airborne contamination.

A snippet of one of those studies carried out is here : .....

....Taking into consideration the amount of Ebola outbreaks that have happened in the past : roughly 26, I think that Ebola (any of the strains) would have had plenty of time to mutate into an airborn contamination.

I introduced that Winnipeg study to ATS on April 2, on this thread: Ebola Airborne? Spreads From Pigs to Monkeys Without Contact. Worth a quick read, at least. I wouldn't say "tons" of research has been carried out, but even a quick google search leads to some solid research ("pubmed ebola airborne").

....The 1st key to viral evolution in humans is number of human infections - the more infections, the greater number of mutations, the more likely for 'negative' mutations to emerge. ....Note: The total number of human infections in ALL 26(?) previous outbreaks was less than the number in this epidemic.

Another important factor is the role of pigs - long considered to be an essential 'conduit' for animal-borne diseases to the human population. (Excepting the role of other primates.)

...As I've stated before, my interpretation of the research is that airborne transmission existed previously, but was "inefficient." Further, allowing the current Ebola to continue unabated in West Africa will allow and promote the emergence of new mutations including efficient airborne transmission.

originally posted by: tigertatzen
a reply to: loam

A very suspicious choice.

Are you referring to his statement that "we are all connected by the air that we breathe?". I found that to be quite creepy indeed...

Even if it was known to be airborne.... why say something like that? To fan the flames?

True story:
"The Hot Zone"

Yes, it can and will go airborne.

learn.flvs.net...

There are three strains of Ebola, with only one the Ebola reston strain being airborne. Ebola reston has not been known to affect humans. Ebola was discovered in 1976, so that's almost 40 years of the virus being monitored and it has never mutated to airborne. So we are to believe that all of a sudden it could mutate? link

What makes more sense, ebola magically mutating, or tptb weaponizing it to profit off their patent? The behavior and actions of the gov is highly suspect, and should make one question what the hell is going on.

a reply to: tigertatzen

Given the current circumstances, why in the world would he pick that particular phrase to use?

Seems like a huge hedge to me.

We have to realize something. I seriously doubt there is widespread agreement in the government on how to handle this ebola situation with the public. For example, Obama only a week or so ago said that it was "very unlikely" ebola would come to the US. We now know that is not true.

I suspect that the current administration's position is to hide the full truth because the news is politically bad. If the situation grows, we will see more obvious efforts to obscure the truth.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

...why are ordinary folk still flying to affected areas???

Because Western corporations make a shiite pile of money raping West Africa for resources - oil, iron ore, bauxite, diamonds, gold, uranium, you name it. Most of the labor is local but the execs and supervisors come from here, and the trained oil workers.


ETA: And they all travel back home, often on private corporate jets that are NOT subject to the same controls and restrictions as commercial flights.

It is now known that the Dallas patient helped move an Ebola infected pregnant woman to a hot zone hospital and then back to her living quarters when she was refused treatment due to overcrowding 3 days prior to his flight to the US. She died later from Ebola.

So the patient was in direct contact with Ebola 72 hours prior to his flight to the US, and was on a flight for roughly 20 hours with layovers and they are saying there was no chance of him being contagious in flight? He was infected for 96 hours/4 days before he even landed in the US.

a reply to: soficrow

Maybe its time to set up infection check points near the boat-plane and as much work as it may be border entrances and exits that can identify the ill. Could perhaps use the Japanese testing system... And or come up with some aerosol like identifier agent that changes the air color or smell if not the objects color that may have the virus on surface...

Ebola Outbreak: Japan Develops 30-Minute 'Simpler' Test To Quickly Diagnose Deadly Virus

www.ibtimes.com...

NAMASTE*******

a reply to: soficrow

Sofi, I think that particular bias misses the unique nexus that exists between Liberia and the US. There is a huge Liberian expat population here- more than 100,000. In fact, at least two Liberian heads of state were born here.

There's a lot of travel back and forth in this group that has little to do with the oil or mineral trade.

Whoops something went wrong with my quoting... Apologies Soficrow

I know the Winnipeg study quite well...

Agreed that there were much less human cases compared to this actual outbreak in the past as for some reason or another the virus either "dwindled" away so to speak or was contained correctly in the small regions of origin.

I don't disagree with the fact that one day there may be a possible new airborn transmission of this filovirus but with my experience in this research field i don't think that this will happen overnight so to speak... we are quite along way from that possible shtf scenario for the moment... BUT, I will eat my tin foil hat if I am proved wrong.

Another snippet of info concerning pig to primate contamination which may be interesting to some :

Although Ebola viruses can cause fatal disease in humans and other primates, pigs can carry the infections with few ill effects. Now, Canadian scientists have shown that apparently healthy pigs can pass the deadliest species of Ebola to monkeys, even without ever coming into contact with them.

And this :

The study shows that the virus can spread without direct contact, but “keep in mind that Ebola is not suddenly an airborne virus, like influenza,” said Kobinger. Instead, the virus could have jumped from pigs to monkeys via small droplets in the air, or larger ones that splashed into the monkeys’ cages when the handlers cleaned the floor of the pigs’ a

All of this can be found here : www.the-scientist.com.../articleNo/33277/title/Ebola-from-Pigs-to-Monkeys/

Kindest respects

Rodinus

a reply to: butcherguy

Even if it was known to be airborne.... why say something like that? To fan the flames?

Exactly...that's quite disturbing. And I wonder how many people actually noticed that he said that...it can only serve to heighten the fear that the whole message is meant to allay...so why say it?

From this point on I don't think containment is even a remote possibility with global trade, travel, commerce, etc.
Eventually there will be a mass panic driven exodus from all of Africa to points all over the globe.

It's time now to start a "Manhattan" style operation to find a potent anti virus and start mass production and inoculations.

If we can spend a trillion $ to update our nuclear arsenal; what's the point if everyone is sick and dying?

a reply to: tigertatzen

Because if it later proves to be airborne, he doesn't want to be left with the accusation he misrepresented the possibility and lose all credibility.

I think it shows the obvious tension between scientific fact and politics.

This was a fine example.

Could become.

So I have to ask the question nobody else has.

What do we do "if" it does?