Doctor treats Ebola with HIV drug in Liberia - seemingly successfully

Now we wait to see who's mad at this man.

I'm happy he saved lives. Let's hope those that think more along the lines of how dare he are loud and vocal so we can easily see.

That theory has been repeatedly brought up. Off label meds would really kill the profits. Generic too!

Can't imagine the emotions and turmoil he must have been going through and is still dealing with. Tough guy. And he's not alone. I don't even want to think about all the people dealing with this rihgt now. It's incomprehensible to me what some people can cope with.

Makes me entertain the idea of a merciful God less and less. I know christians say God is a loving God and gives us all a chance and that this world we live in can never be a good one because it's corrupt, but I just can't believe a God would accept what goes on and not put a stop to it. If I were God I'd confront every existing sentient creature and ask it whether it wants to be removed and I'd do that for the foreseeable future until either all sentients are removed painlessly (either to a less painful sim or to oblivion) or I'm unable to run the "game". Which of course leads me to the conclusion if God exists then God is either sadistic or just imperfect like us. Who knows, maybe God is just a programmer working for a company and their stated goal is to create a simulation to better understand something. Maybe in their distorted thinking we're just code and we're not "alive".

a reply to: Iamthatbish

If that was the US, they'd already be pulling his license to practice.

If this is true, it could end the outbreak in a couple of months.

Sounds like the standard HIV therapy of AZT would work as well:

en.wikipedia.org...

Lamivudine was approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on November 17, 1995 for use with zidovudine (AZT) and again in 2002 as a once-a-day dosed medication. The fifth antiretroviral drug on the market, it was the last NRTI for three years while the approval process switched to protease inhibitors. According to the manufacturer's 2004 annual report, its patent will expire in the United States in 2010 and in Europe in 2011.

a reply to: stormcell

Actually ARV treatments, (Anti Retro Viral) are unlikely to result in a 'cure' for Ebola. These drugs attack the body's ability to produce the RNA that HIV uses to replicate. To date there is no known therapy for eliminating the reservoir that Retro Viruses within the body. HIV tends to 'hide' throughout the body and deep within organ tissue, so when you stop taking the ARV therapy, the virus comes out of hiding and starts to replicate again.

Viruses like Ebola, don't replicate in the same way. AFAIK, Ebola has a much different RNA structure and tends to 'take over' the body's red cells. Its possible that a large enough dose of ARV would be enough to 'starve' Ebola of the RNA it needs to replicate, and because it's a 'Hot' virus, this is enough to reduce the virus to a level where the body's own immune system can wipe it out.

It's an interesting approach, but it's a shot in the dark. It could encourage the Ebola virus to mutate into a cooler virus with a longer incubation period and a larger viral load that serves as a reservoir, so instead of a virus that attacks the body quite quickly, we end up with a virus like HIV, which lies largely undetected replicating until it starts to attack. This would likely make it more likely to spread.

Thing is, there is just no way to predict how a virus will mutate and when that's likely to happen.

Remember Ebola is easily killed by simple soap and water. What we don't want is to allow it more time to develop into something that is less easy to kill in the environment.

a reply to: redshoes

Without treatment, HIV does not 'hide' so it can be detected if there is an infection. The ARV is what makes the virus 'undetectable' to standard tests (however single-cell assays used in clinical trials can and do detect virus in even the 'undetectable' - with few rare exceptions...I happen to be one of the few in the US being studied for this exception right now).

The danger of resistance is when there is a sub-optimal amount of the ARV in the system, that allows weakened virus to still replicate and forces mutations. This IS A BIG PROBLEM with treating HIV, as the duration of treatment is for life, and is normally self-administered. Skipping doses is the one thing you do NOT do, and 14 years I have never missed a dose. I can understand the fear of this situation as I lived a year or two of feeling like the 'walking dead' myself. 14 years later, my biggest health problem is side effects, but otherwise I work hard, travel, and live a good life, in some ways even healthier than a lot of my friends and co-workers my age.

I would not be in fear of expanded ARV treatments for Ebola, as the treatment will be administered in clinics in isolation (hopefully) and dose-skipping would not be permitted. In this kind of situation, with the drugs administered on a controlled schedule in a clinic setting, even if it DID force a mutation, the patient wiuld still be in isolation and under monitoring. The immune system is capable of recognizing and organizing an effective attack against Ebola, unfortunately Ebola does so much damage so fast, the body is depleted before this counterattack can happen. This possible drug treatment may be just enough to slow down the progress to allow the body to catch up and then attack it.

For it to mutate to the point that it would not be detectable after treatment ceases, would be a helluva mutation.

For me... a ray of hope that I might just be able to avoid the next global plague out of Africa simply because I am still under treatment for the last global plague out of Africa....

originally posted by: jonnywhite
Can't imagine the emotions and turmoil he must have been going through and is still dealing with. Tough guy. And he's not alone. I don't even want to think about all the people dealing with this rihgt now. It's incomprehensible to me what some people can cope with.

Makes me entertain the idea of a merciful God less and less. I know christians say God is a loving God and gives us all a chance and that this world we live in can never be a good one because it's corrupt, but I just can't believe a God would accept what goes on and not put a stop to it. If I were God I'd confront every existing sentient creature and ask it whether it wants to be removed and I'd do that for the foreseeable future until either all sentients are removed painlessly (either to a less painful sim or to oblivion) or I'm unable to run the "game". Which of course leads me to the conclusion if God exists then God is either sadistic or just imperfect like us. Who knows, maybe God is just a programmer working for a company and their stated goal is to create a simulation to better understand something. Maybe in their distorted thinking we're just code and we're not "alive".

Because this planet/these bodies are not our home. If you don't remember that then yes it may seem like God isn't loving. But think of it as a video game... when you play video games, you don't keep your character out of dangerous situations because you are afraid he may die. He is in the game to die. That's what he was made for right? To serve a purpose in the game.

There is something to this. I just hope that this story doesn't get buried and that folks see it. This may or may not cure ebola, but at the very least it could buy people time to get treatment or lessen the effects of ebola. Brave doctor.

You don't think that both HIV and Ebola came from the same lab do you ?

Sure as hell will do big pharm good to make a profit on this new outbreak don't you think

a reply to: VirusGuard

Yes....but the laboratory is the continent of Africa, and the experiment is what happens when humans expand exponentially into areas not exposed to humans on a regular basis, exploiting resources previously untapped, and what happens when the human's ability to travel across the world in mass numbers also expands exponentially.

In my lifetime, this world's population has doubled! Think about THAT. Millions of years to get the population to the levels of 3 billion, and only 50 years to more than double that number!

Reference: world population growth
A notable quote:

A tremendous change occurred with the industrial revolution: whereas it had taken all of human history until around 1800 for world population to reach one billion, the second billion was achieved in only 130 years (1930), the third billion in less than 30 years (1959), the fourth billion in 15 years (1974), and the fifth billion in only 13 years (1987).

Logic tells me, with humans encroaching on areas not exposed for millenia, and living in countries with populations as large as the entire Earth only 100 years ago, that infectious agents afflicting humans would also increase in number. Say 'target-rich enviroment' and that is what we are on this Earth to infectious agents of all types.

That (exponential population growth, exponential migration growth, and exponential exposure to more areas of Earth) does not in any way eliminate the possibility that this was a lab-engineered agent, but it does in itself present an explanation why we are seeing such increases in the types of infectious agents being passed thru the populations without the help of any gubmint researcher with aims at depopulation.

a reply to: FlyersFan

For what I been reading about Ebola virus they no only they were first found in primates but also the HIV in variation call SIV , it seems that all those virus started to cross to human about the same time, all those viruses have something in common, the attack the immune system.

So I imagine that is possible that the cure for one or treatment for one could work on all of the them, with mixed results.

15 people is way to small a sample to say it works.
He could just have been lucky and tried it on 13 that would have survived anyway.

a reply to: joho99

Very true, but still a substantial correlation. And it won't take years of research to duplicate this feat if it was the cause, it should only take about three more weeks.

Any person with reason, and with Ebola, offered this opportunity to see if it can be repeated - with the other options available (none) will try it so he WILL get more volunteers for this.

We will know very soon, no waiting, thousands standing in line for testing right now. And the results will be with us in mere weeks.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
Now we wait to see who's mad at this man.

I didn't think of that. If TPTB are wanting an epidemic to bring down population levels ... or if big pharma has their own ebola drugs they want to sell ... you are right, this doctor may have stumbled into something that won't make those big powers happy at all.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Didn't Monsanto reveal the existence of it's very own, in-house stab at a novel anti-ebola vaccine...just after the outbreak in Africa?

Could be that big Pharma isn't first out of the box on this one, this time.

In any case, if a more or less off the shelf drug developed for use in HIV treatment works to control or cure Ebola, that's great news.

Depending on what the active ingredient having an effect on Ebola actually turns out to be in that HIV drug, it may give some clues to point the way to a natural analogue, that may be widely and cheaply available so the people can use it themselves to some effect, cheaply and quickly perhaps.

Good news.