The Gathering. The $1-Billion-a-Year Right-Wing Conspiracy You Haven’t Heard Of

a reply to: defcon5

I love the fact you used the word Pharisee.

a reply to: defcon5

Old testament:

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. Leviticus 25:44-46

16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.” Genesis 16:1-2


3 Then she said, “Here is Bilhah, my servant. Sleep with her so that she can bear children for me and I too can build a family through her.”

4 So she gave him her servant Bilhah as a wife. Jacob slept with her Genesis 30:3-4



28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord’s part. 30 From the Israelites’ half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord’s tabernacle.” 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was:

337,500 sheep, 37 of which the tribute for the Lord was 675;

38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the Lord was 72;

39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the Lord was 61;

40 16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the Lord was 32.

41 Moses gave the tribute to Eleazar the priest as the Lord’s part, as the Lord commanded Moses.

42 The half belonging to the Israelites, which Moses set apart from that of the fighting men— 43 the community’s half—was 337,500 sheep, 44 36,000 cattle, 45 30,500 donkeys 46 and 16,000 people. 47 From the Israelites’ half, Moses selected one out of every fifty people and animals, as the Lord commanded him, and gave them to the Levites, who were responsible for the care of the Lord’s tabernacle. Numbers 31:28-47

This is just a sampling from the old testament.

The new testament:

25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. Matthew 18:25


66 While Peter was below in the courtyard, one of the servant girls of the high priest came by. Mark 14:66


45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:45-48


5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him. Ephesians 6:5-9 This was a favorite among Christians attempting to justify slavery in the USA.

Again this is a sampling from the New Testament.

So you are incorrect in your assumption that the bible doesn't condone slavery. A Israeli could only be held as a slave for 6 years, but people from other countries or pagans had no such luck.

Methodists, Catholics and Mormons were abolitionists. Other religions separated because of the slavery issue mainly the Baptists. Methodists ended up splinting up based on the slavery issue.

But to claim that Christians in the South didn't use the bible as justification for slavery is incorrect.

"Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis

'Every hope of the existence of church and state, and of civilization itself, hangs upon our arduous effort to defeat the doctrine of Negro suffrage." Robert Dabney, Southern Presbyterian pastor

I didn't mean to say that religion was only on the side of slavery but there were people that did in fact use religion to justify slavery.

originally posted by: stirling
What happened to separation of church and state????
Contributing millions to political agendas should be vorbotten to religious groups constitutionally shouldn't it?
Otherwise no separation is there?

Show me in the Bill of rights or the Constitution where there is Separation of Church and state..

here ill help you:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
I'm not a religious person, but NOWHERE is there a "separation of church and state" clause, amendment or law.

The idea was for the government to not pick certain religions thus forming a secular state.. that's it.
you want to go after some group like "Bildebergers" if you want a conspiracy.... or the "cult members" who go to Bohemian Grove..

originally posted by: flyingfish

originally posted by: defcon5
a reply to: flyingfish

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Yeah, keep messing with the harmless Christian interest groups, who do nothing to you personally, so that they become the religious minority in the country. The Muslims are a close second to the Christians; let’s see how all these groups you are so worried about fair with them being the religious majority in the country. I’ll give you a hint; they’ll do more than hurt your feelings by telling you they disagree with your lifestyle choices or (anti)religious beliefs.
Mark my words the day is going to come where these groups are going to be lamenting, saying, “Man… remember when the Christians were around, all we had to worry about back then was that they might make us feel bad.”

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Hardly.. I see a day when our intelligence emerges beyond religious extremism. There are those of us who value civil liberties and the separation of church and state, the most serious mistake we could make would be to think that 'it can’t happen here.
I'm all for religious freedom, It's religious intolerance, and the money of religious fanatics like The Family Council and others, that are forcing their unfounded views on all Americans causing considerable damage to women and others who want no part of their religious delusions!
It's simple, religion in government is unconstitutional, and should not be permitted.

Actually the Bill or Rights PROTECT religious freedoms.. they just did not want a secular state..ala Muslim countries.. they wanted all citizens to practice what they choose without government involvement.. remember, these are the descendants of the pilgrim..who were persecuted in England.. not a hard concept..

a reply to: defcon5

Hate to tell you so do the presidents, Senate and the House.. look at any LAW that discusses the definition of a US person.. they include companies that are based here.. to protect them just as much as citizens..

You know, I am white, male, southerner (born and raised in Texas), and have roots in this country dating back to Plymouth Rock.

That being said, I will fly any flag I wish over my property...even Chinese/Iranian/North Korean/Cuban/etc. if the mood strikes me.

This country was built on the backs of immigrants. To deny one's heritage is to deny history....which apparently many wish to do.

Not me. Fly your colors...no matter who or where you are from.

DO NOT LET BIGOTS BULLY YOU!!!

Peace and love for all...WORLD WIDE!!!

originally posted by: SevenThunders
Oh boy that sure is dangerous. Promoting God and family. We can't allow this to go unpunished!

My goodness look at this subversive doctrine from their own website!

Fathers of Hope was produced to promote fathering skills and Dads and Moms That Make a Difference seminars started. A short-term social outreach, called 50 Good Men, was begun to encourage men to give back to their community.

We just can't have fathering skills being promoted, nor dare we give back to our communities. Instead let's maintain the progressive agenda of moral degeneracy, hatred of the nuclear family and the destruction of western democracy.

Your just looking at things through their rose colored glasses, smug and self-satisfied are you knowing there is nothing wrong with promoteing fathering skills, it's the intend to impose their morality at the expense of others who do not subscribe to their religious indoctrination. It's what actually happens when people impose their beliefs on others, they do damage by considering them to be "less" on the simple basis of their religion, gender, race or sexual orientation. You damage their self-esteem. You treat them like an enemy. You tell them that they should feel ashamed of who they are. Other people need to be respected regardless.
Did it ever occur to you that nonsensical apologetics based upon the compiled ancient texts of societies that existed thousands of years ago may not be the best source for a system of morality?

Who said "a culture divided against itself is weak" is it not true? Do you demand that the government should legislate for One True Religion, do you? Or for One True Music or One True Literature? or One True Form Of Marriage?... you might be a bigot.

I'm no longer a supporter of tax breaks for the wealthy. The wealthy are using there fortunes to create political groups designed to further there profit margins at the expense of the environment and the peoples health. If they paid a higher tax rate they wouldn't have all this money to spread there dishonest ideology and political activism.

Religion brings in around $4 billion dollars a year tax free, apparently some if not all organized religions are and have been using the same type of political action groups to further there agenda. This money could be used to help support there local communities but they are using to to re write history, or to dumb down history, just read this thread if you doubt this. They are using this money to fund anti climate change propaganda. They are using this money to support political action for legislation and to influence political policy. They are using this money to influence local public education to conform with there ideology/religious beliefs. If your group wishes to influence politics you should be paying taxes like the rest of the country.

We need more balance in media and politics, and much less extremism.

These are my opinions.

a reply to: LDragonFire

the wealthy already pay over 50% of total tax dollars...the us population has over 47% who do not.. do not start income inequality garbage...if you are driven, successful, etc who should they be FORCED to pay for the takers? where is that fair? also the majority of the wealthy also give butt loads of money to charities and programs to give back on top of their tax rates...

anti-climate change propaganda? oh, you mean that garbage science BS. weathermen cannot predict effectively the weather 10 days out let alone the trace gas CO2..plant food.. moreco2..better plant growth.
the earth has a wobble..it is called procession.. it even causes the magnetic pole to move
www.ngdc.noaa.gov...
so if there is a wobble which takes about 1500 years to travel back to its regular location, the magnetic pole shifts which deflects the solar radiation are constantly changing.. here is the cause.. you think the ice age ended because of woolly mammoth farts? get educated.. no where in any of the major climate "studies" do they take this into account.. that is just plain lazy and dumb.

the climate crap is about control..just like taxes they want the US to give money to poor countries by taxing them..for something they already do..

originally posted by: defcon5
a reply to: flyingfish
And yet corporations, who do far more damage to everyone, are allowed to lobby the government because the supreme court has agreed that a corporation has the same say as an individual. Well, a religion should have the same rights then. All religions. That includes Christian organizations as much as it should the VERY powerful lobbies of the ADL and AIPAC.

I have no problem with that and actually they can. All they need to do is give up their "TAX FREE" status and they can reform as a PAC to be tax free again. Of course employees that get paid will then need to pay their personal taxes which IMO is why they will not do it.

Even those in Pacs must pay personal taxes.

Personally I find the corporations are people ruling as trash.

Unfortunately, not all churches and religious organizations have been content to live within the legal rules. Quite a few have attempted to evade the rules, either secretly or very openly, in order to allow churches and religious groups to participate actively in political campaigns even while retaining their charitable tax-exempt status.

One of the earliest (and only) cases where a religious group had to be sanctioned by the IRS involved Christian Echoes National Ministry. Founded in 1951 by Dr. Billy James Hargis, it engaged in a wide range of political activity, all the way up to endorsing Barry Goldwater for president in 1964. That year the IRS revoked their tax-exempt status, an action which was affirmed by the Tenth Circuit Court in 1972.

For the most part, however, the IRS has done little in reaction to religious organizations which have crossed the line into explicit political advocacy. In 1980, the abortion-rights group Abortion Rights Mobilization had to sue the IRS to try and get them to take action against the Roman Catholic Church over the fact that many parishes had openly endorsed anti-abortion political candidates for office. The case was dismissed on procedural grounds and its merits were never ruled upon.

In 1991, the IRS investigated Jimmy Swaggart and found that he was guilty of violating IRS rules because he had twice endorsed Pat Robertson for president. There was no fine, the tax-exempt status of his ministry was unaffected, and all he was asked to do was sign a pledge not to do it ever again. After that, however, the IRS seemed to start acting a bit more proactively.

In 1993, the IRS investigated Jerry Falwell and found that his Old Time Gospel Hour had illegally funneled money towards a political action committee which, in turn, had given money to conservative political candidates. This time, there was a $50,000 fine and the tax-exempt status for the organization was revoked retroactively for the years 1986 and 1987, the time when the violations occurred.

Se moreatheism.about.com...

a reply to: displacedTexan

Like I said there funding anti climate change BS!

originally posted by: Grimpachi

Personally I find the corporations are people ruling as trash.



tell that to the IRS.


Internal Revenue Code Section 7701(a)(30) defines a U.S. person as:[3]

a citizen or resident of the United States,
a domestic partnership,
a domestic corporation,
any estate (other than a foreign estate, within the meaning of paragraph (31)), and
any trust if—
a court within the United States is able to exercise primary supervision over the administration of the trust, and
one or more United States persons have the authority to control all substantial decisions of the trust.

General Provisions
3.4 Definitions.
(i) United States person means a United States citizen, an alien known by the intelligence agency concerned to be a permanent resident alien, an unincorporated association substantially composed of United States citizens or permanent resident aliens, or a corporation incorporated in the United States, except for a corporation directed and controlled by a foreign government or governments.

a reply to: displacedTexan

tell that to the IRS.

If I ever get the opportunity I will however I had already expressed that sentiment by signing petitions and in a letters to both my state representatives for congress and senate.

I think they are trash as well.

a reply to: LDragonFire

The Doctrine of Discovery is a topic in itself.

You should start a thread.

Very interesting and certainly provocative.

Plenty of room for debate !!

a reply to: flyingfish

Sound like dinners Obama speaks at and the plates cost more LOL They're all trying to destroy our way of life. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle they stand. You just don't get it so you're shilling for the other side unknowingly. Or maybe not

The only good this group serves is as a counterbalance to the other side. As long as they keep tugging, we'll be ok. Once on side gets full control (what Obama has bee trying to accomplish) we're all screwed.

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: flyingfish

Sound like dinners Obama speaks at and the plates cost more LOL They're all trying to destroy our way of life. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle they stand. You just don't get it so you're shilling for the other side unknowingly. Or maybe not

The only good this group serves is as a counterbalance to the other side. As long as they keep tugging, we'll be ok. Once on side gets full control (what Obama has bee trying to accomplish) we're all screwed.

You don't get it, this is not about two wrongs make a right fallacy, this thread is about the gathering and it's American bastardization of xtianity.

If I'm a "shill" then it's for this guy..

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them."

Dalai Lama

a reply to: xuenchen

Conquerors write the history of the conquered, the Vatican hides the history in vaults, the ptb make the curriculum so boring no one cares.

Example the “Inter Caetera,” from the pope read to South American Native Americans (if one knew history they would know this) that ordered them to convert or die, be raped, pillaged and plundered was read in Latin. Only the priests that accompanied the Conquistadors knew Latin so even the Spanish soldiers didn't know what it said. I attended a American history college class a few years ago and the text book clearly stated that this edict was read to the Native Americans in Spanish. So the Vatican in Italy issued official documents in Spanish ?

I got a A in the class.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Maybe they had a translated copy.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: LDragonFire

Maybe they had a translated copy.

Latin



I wonder what the literacy rate in Spain was in the 1400's?

It basically comes down to philosophical difference of opinion.
The bottom line is if you disagree with one of their 4 core priorities

STRUCTURE YOUR TIME AND LIFE BY BIBLICAL STANDARDS

Regardless of Christian denomination this will benefit a person.
Groups that say American civilization is in decline as people stray from biblical standards are correct.
Strong families makes for strong countries, and lax morality in the west has wrecked the family unit.

So it comes as no surprise that groups form to fight this.

originally posted by: flyingfish

originally posted by: Bilk22
a reply to: flyingfish

Sound like dinners Obama speaks at and the plates cost more LOL They're all trying to destroy our way of life. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle they stand. You just don't get it so you're shilling for the other side unknowingly. Or maybe not

The only good this group serves is as a counterbalance to the other side. As long as they keep tugging, we'll be ok. Once on side gets full control (what Obama has bee trying to accomplish) we're all screwed.

You don't get it, this is not about two wrongs make a right fallacy, this thread is about the gathering and it's American bastardization of xtianity.

If I'm a "shill" then it's for this guy..

"Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them."

Dalai Lama

I don't think you get it. When you use words such as "right wing conspiracy" you come of as a liberal hack. What do you think is happening on the other side? They're just as slimy and use all the same tactics. They have world domination desires too - just from a different vantage point. They're certainly not a live and let live mentality. They want to control you as you claim this group does. So open you eyes before you try to open everyone else's eyes.