Logical evidence for aliens?

a reply to: magicrat

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

Best UFO case ever: JAL 1628. Those pilots saw something heavy, went on record for it, and got crucified via 'flying a desk'. Leslie Kean has written about it, and spoke about it on Science Chan. the FAA has done all it can to cover it up, and eye witnesses, including radar experts have been hushed up by the CIA. It's a very compelling case. Oh, by the way, one of the UFO's involved in the sighting is explained as being the size of an aircraft carrier.

Other cases of high interest: Bentwaters AFB, the Cash-Lundrum case outside of Houston, Masfield Ohihio 1973 case, "Eskimo Scouts" sighting January 1987, Pheonix Lights 1997, Gulf Breeze and Ed Waters pictures, Malmstrom AFB Nuclear shutdown incident 1967...

It depends on what your conception of proof is, and what or who you consider valid evidence/witnesses. I see logical data that supports the existence of an intelligence far superior to our own all over the place. You just have to be willing to put in the time reading the docs.

For example, would you consider the Chief of Staff of the Soviet Air Defense Forces a valid witness? I do. In 1990 Colonel General Igor Maltsev said "Skeptics and believers both can take this as official confirmation of the existence of UFO's." He was later supported by statements made by General Ivan Tretyak, who was Soviet Deputy Minister of Defense and the Commander in Chief of the Air Defense Forces. "it would be foolhardy to launch an unprovoked attack against an object that may possess formidable capabilities for retaliation."-- in response to questions about why the Air Defense Forces did not fire on a UFO that had been spotted; further "There are real phenomena of some kind which are appearing before us in the form of UFO's, the nature of which we do not no.".
Ref. "UFOs myths, conspiracies and realities" --John B. Alexander

Among other supportive evidence Brazil, Chile, Peru and Mexico take a much more pragmatic and open approach to UFO sightings in general. There's many documents to be found online and in books regarding specific sightings from those countries. Astronaughts have some interesting things to say about ET and UFOs as well, despite what Jim Oberg want you all to believe. Not a dig on Jim Oberg, i have a lot of respect for him as a proffesional. I've come to my own conclusions despite a lot of his reasoning for why things in space couldn't be of unknown origin.

It's easy for skeptics to write off ET and UFOs, very simply because they have not dedicated the time to actually reading the mountains of available evidence that support their existence... that literally goes back over 100 years in modern times. And some would argue theres evidence that supports thousands of years of interactions with them.

As with most things UFO related, the official line is deny deny deny. You'll have to come to your own conclusions , ultimately. IMHO, they are here. All you have to do is look up for long enough, maybe you'll get to see one for yourself.

Logical evidence for aliens is like the Vatican using the powers of....SCIENCE!!! For logical explanations, while for...SCIENTISTS!!!...It would be like them trying to use myths and gospel for facts.

a reply to: AnonyMason

Awesome post!! My thoughts exactly!

OG

a reply to: AnonyMason
Thank you -- I know about the JAL 1628 incident but I don't think I've dug that deeply into the evidence there. I'll take a look at that as well as some of the others you mention.

I would definitely call some of the evidence I've seen compelling. If it was conclusive proof, we'd all be having a different conversation, but it's compelling enough for me to believe. My larger point, though, is about what we as humanity believe.

All you have to do is look up for long enough, maybe you'll get to see one for yourself.

I hope so. I keep looking

a reply to: magicrat

I'm glad your thread is asking for 'logical' evidence. I feel the alien 'conspiracy' has been overly damaged by the search or desire for empirical evidence.

We must always keep in mind that if we are dealing with alien civilisations that are considerably more advanced than us, hoping for empirical evidence is almost a completely futile process.

The most logical assumption for me is based on our own existence. We now know enough about our universe, planets, timespans and evolutionary processes/genetics to almost readily conclude, logically, that there is at least another intelligent and, most importantly, self-aware humanoid race out there.

Any form of statistical analysis will easily suggest so. In essence however, you only simply need to understand the complete complexity and hence beauty of evolution and the accompanying physics (key point - 'survival of the fittest' alone is not a physical system) to realise that it would be shocking for there to not be other life like us.

It would suggest the non-existence or extremely low frequency of Earth-like planets - something that we can logically and arguably empirically conclude as having proven false.

We can also logically conclude that our Earth is qualitatively a special planet, for we know as fact that it harbours life. Based on that knowledge, we can at least conclude that all TRUE Earth-like planets can spawn an entity similar to us.

We can then conclude that any such entity would in turn search for Earth-like planets, for we are already doing so.

Hence, we can logically conclude that our Earth is more likely to be scanned for by an alien race interested in life than another planet, greatly increasing the apparently super-low odds of our planet being discovered.

Putting the Creator(s) of the universe aside, by the virtue of our existence we can conclude the universe has the possibility for intelligent life, and considering our position in the universes timeline, it is logically sound to conclude we've been preceded throughout the universe.

Now... I'm equally glad you mentioned religion. This is the KEY POINT for me.

From everything I've said above, one could still strongly argue that we are nothing but the first and only self-aware product of this complete fluke.

However, when you consider that our race has literally from 'Day 1' of writing capability, attempted to note down approximately the same story, with the upmost importance, throughout history and the planet - it would suggest that we weren't the 'originals' to evolve naturally, but perhaps a product of an earlier iteration.

This swings the above argument into favouring alien life, for it explains the synchronicity and context of the ancient stories better than ANY OTHER theory, while maintaining consistency with all previous scientific knowledge gained. Therefore, logically, this seems to be the soundest conclusion.

Problem is, most people tend to think that ancient alien beliefs arise from a misunderstanding of evolution and therefore a need to provide an alternative theory - this is complete nonsense. Furthermore, it scares the living crap out of most people.

That being said, us being created may be a stretch, but some form of interaction with an 'alien' race seems rampant in ancient literature and artwork.

Angels and Demons, Jinn, Asura, Archons, Watchers, Gods and Goddesses, Anunnaki... They have taken MANY names over the millennia. However, there are repeating concepts in their names and stories (besides creation).

Examples are the link of these entities to the sky and 'heaven', conflicts between these entities, the concept of them being able to see us and hide from us simultaneously, the concept of them having powers above our comprehension and especially the concept of them existing prior to us.

The only true question we can't answer in regards to this right now is 'how would they have got here/where did they come from?'. We're just not at the stage of comfortably answering that question, although I'm practically certain we are getting there.

There is also the question of the 'physicality' of the entities discussed in religion (and modern UFOlogy). The mixture of 'physical' and 'spiritual' phenomena. But this could technically all be explained through the concepts of advanced technology/knowledge.

Who knows? This is just a logical analysis. Who can you truly convince these days without pleasing their 5-senses?

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
Way off base? There have been television series based on this idea. Did you never see Ancient Aliens?a reply to: magicrat

The television series is also just based on the ancient alien theories which exist since the early 1970s. Erich V. Däniken might be considered the "father" of the theory. In fact, back many years ago there was a (probably much better) original Ancient Aliens TV series with EvD as the host. This was long BEFORE there was this re-make with weird hair guy. I just don't want that people mistakenly assume the AA theory is based off or coming from the currently running show.

originally posted by: magicrat
a reply to: RayVon
I'd say that's plausible but it doesn't feel right to me. I do enjoy the idea, and of course I can't disprove it.

The short film reminds me of the opening scene from Strange Brew

Please do post it if you find it.

Finally found the video I was talking about. Got my friend on the case as I couldn't find it myself.

>>
As far as I can tell, just about all religions throughout human history have a common basic story: sometime in the past, a Being or Beings created us. We had direct contact and communication with them for a while, they helped us with stuff, and then they left, saying they'd be back someday. Right now they're somewhere above us.
>>

And this is basically the AA theory simplified.

Yes, there are ASTONISHING indications which would justify looking at things differently. This INCLUDES ...mainly even...religions. The AA theory says that many religions and ancient myths may in-fact describe alien encounters. It's only a matter of HOW things are interpreted. OBVIOUSLY, for those back in ancient times, alleged aliens and space travelers MUST have appeared as being gods/angels etc...

a reply to: magicrat
Brilliant post. A very clear way to describe a complex idea.

originally posted by: VoidFire

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

And who created the Aliens?

It's not a matter of who, ET out there may have simply come forth through natural evolution of their own species, and potentially with the manipulation of other ET that have evolved as well.

We have to keep in mind the possibility that they don't have the same concept of religion or the same beliefs that some humans hold to. They may also be more aware and educated as to how they came into being through their sciences as well. One thing for certain, if there are countless ET races out there, than their beliefs will differ as well from individual to individual and race to race.

I'm sorry that makes no sense. ET'S made of us but no one made them? This is not logical.

a reply to: magicrat
Look at the intellectual progression of human beings. A path can be traced to our advances. You don't have mud huts one year and a sudden jump to skyscrapers the next. That could suggest involvement by high intelligence and you would have a valid argument then. This applys across the board to any category. So where's the evidence in any category that an intelligent alien species intervened at any point during human history?

Coincidentally, the "advances" claimed on this forum seem to all be in line with human advancement and human abilities. There's nothing other-worldly about tight stone joints or the pyramids. Evidence shows a progression to these. Today, architects and engineers can spend years just on the designing of a building. That's with all of our technological advances. To suggest a group of many thousands of people with no active job can't possibly build a structure, is ridiculous. You also insult the intelligence and ingenuity of human beings by doing so.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: VoidFire

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

And who created the Aliens?

It's not a matter of who, ET out there may have simply come forth through natural evolution of their own species, and potentially with the manipulation of other ET that have evolved as well.

We have to keep in mind the possibility that they don't have the same concept of religion or the same beliefs that some humans hold to. They may also be more aware and educated as to how they came into being through their sciences as well. One thing for certain, if there are countless ET races out there, than their beliefs will differ as well from individual to individual and race to race.

I'm sorry that makes no sense. ET'S made of us but no one made them? This is not logical.

What makes no sense is how you could assume that there can't be intelligent life that came forth without a "creator". It makes perfect and logical sense that there would be intelligent ET life that came about naturally without the influence of another off planet species.

Evidence of Aliens? You just won't take our word for it?

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

I'll take your word for it. But only 'cause you're humble

a reply to: DazDaKing



Thanks for a great and thoughtful reply. I wish I had time to give it the response it deserves, but I'll have to come back to it later. For now I just wanted to say thanks for giving us a lot to chew on.

originally posted by: magicrat
a reply to: HUMBLEONE

I'll take your word for it. But only 'cause you're humble

thanks Magicrat you are fabulous!!

a reply to: Ectoplasm8
That's not the argument I'm making though. I didn't say anything about pyramids or advancements at all. I'm up for arguing about some of that, but my original post was solely focused on the logical evidence I see in the fact that all (or maybe mostly all) human beings have always believed in some variant of a common story which includes Beings that are not of this world.

I certainly didn't mean to disrespect humans of any time period.

Thanks--

originally posted by: DazDaKing
a reply to: magicrat

I'm glad your thread is asking for 'logical' evidence. I feel the alien 'conspiracy' has been overly damaged by the search or desire for empirical evidence.

We must always keep in mind that if we are dealing with alien civilisations that are considerably more advanced than us, hoping for empirical evidence is almost a completely futile process.

The most logical assumption for me is based on our own existence. We now know enough about our universe, planets, timespans and evolutionary processes/genetics to almost readily conclude, logically, that there is at least another intelligent and, most importantly, self-aware humanoid race out there.

Any form of statistical analysis will easily suggest so. In essence however, you only simply need to understand the complete complexity and hence beauty of evolution and the accompanying physics (key point - 'survival of the fittest' alone is not a physical system) to realise that it would be shocking for there to not be other life like us.

It would suggest the non-existence or extremely low frequency of Earth-like planets - something that we can logically and arguably empirically conclude as having proven false.

We can also logically conclude that our Earth is qualitatively a special planet, for we know as fact that it harbours life. Based on that knowledge, we can at least conclude that all TRUE Earth-like planets can spawn an entity similar to us.

We can then conclude that any such entity would in turn search for Earth-like planets, for we are already doing so.

Hence, we can logically conclude that our Earth is more likely to be scanned for by an alien race interested in life than another planet, greatly increasing the apparently super-low odds of our planet being discovered.

Putting the Creator(s) of the universe aside, by the virtue of our existence we can conclude the universe has the possibility for intelligent life, and considering our position in the universes timeline, it is logically sound to conclude we've been preceded throughout the universe.

Now... I'm equally glad you mentioned religion. This is the KEY POINT for me.

From everything I've said above, one could still strongly argue that we are nothing but the first and only self-aware product of this complete fluke.

However, when you consider that our race has literally from 'Day 1' of writing capability, attempted to note down approximately the same story, with the upmost importance, throughout history and the planet - it would suggest that we weren't the 'originals' to evolve naturally, but perhaps a product of an earlier iteration.

This swings the above argument into favouring alien life, for it explains the synchronicity and context of the ancient stories better than ANY OTHER theory, while maintaining consistency with all previous scientific knowledge gained. Therefore, logically, this seems to be the soundest conclusion.

Problem is, most people tend to think that ancient alien beliefs arise from a misunderstanding of evolution and therefore a need to provide an alternative theory - this is complete nonsense. Furthermore, it scares the living crap out of most people.

That being said, us being created may be a stretch, but some form of interaction with an 'alien' race seems rampant in ancient literature and artwork.

Angels and Demons, Jinn, Asura, Archons, Watchers, Gods and Goddesses, Anunnaki... They have taken MANY names over the millennia. However, there are repeating concepts in their names and stories (besides creation).

Examples are the link of these entities to the sky and 'heaven', conflicts between these entities, the concept of them being able to see us and hide from us simultaneously, the concept of them having powers above our comprehension and especially the concept of them existing prior to us.

The only true question we can't answer in regards to this right now is 'how would they have got here/where did they come from?'. We're just not at the stage of comfortably answering that question, although I'm practically certain we are getting there.

There is also the question of the 'physicality' of the entities discussed in religion (and modern UFOlogy). The mixture of 'physical' and 'spiritual' phenomena. But this could technically all be explained through the concepts of advanced technology/knowledge.

Who knows? This is just a logical analysis. Who can you truly convince these days without pleasing their 5-senses?

An excellent essay, my compliments! Perhaps the original purpose of this planet has been subverted by race(s) of alien and or inter dimensional beings bent on the subjugation of the planet in its entirety. Via an inconceivable technology, they have hacked into the collective consciousness of the planet and liken to inserting a malware virus corrupted the program for the nefarious purpose of massive parasitic predation. Thereby pain, suffering and all agonies experienced during this human experience has been a source of food for these beings. Fancy at the pinnacle of the pyramidal power structure on the planet, these few humans know the latter and due to greed, assumed the role of Quisling. The name of the virus is EGO. But alas, there are things bigger and badder than these alien parasites and they are some of the first beings ever created, Arch Angels would be the closest description... Reptoids ala David Icke or Archons, keeps, Watchers, whatever name you wish to call them, they should leave right now, because they haven't a chance. The correction will be made. .PEACE

a reply to: magicrat
I'm responding to the following comment in your post:

they helped us with stuff, and then they left, saying they'd be back someday.

Where in human history has it been shown that an intelligent species have helped us in any way? Where is the jump to unexplainable progress by humans in any category? There's a logical path throughout our discoveries.

I bring up pyramids because this is a frequent argument on this forum of evidence of alien involvement. Proof of something that humans can't possibly create. Proof that they came here and helped us and went back. That's a ridiculous belief and statement. It's these type of weak arguments that believers are stuck with relying upon. Something that admittedly is an enormous feat, but something that in fact is humanly possible but spun not to be. I'm not saying you necessarily belief this, just wondering what other type of human advancement or help fits into your statement of "helped us with stuff and then they left."

originally posted by: VoidFire
We have to keep in mind the possibility that they don't have the same concept of religion or the same beliefs that some humans hold to. They may also be more aware and educated as to how they came into being through their sciences as well. One thing for certain, if there are countless ET races out there, than their beliefs will differ as well from individual to individual and race to race.

I've always told myself that if I meet some aliens and get to keep the memory of it, one of the first things I'm asking them is about their religious beliefs, it's up there with political structure, and their agenda.