Some Atheist's will be saved according to the Gospel of John...

a reply to: Lyxdeslic

If the priest was a believer, he wouldn't be a child molester in the first place. That isn't following what Christ taught.

And yes, if you do truly repent, there is very, very little that is unforgiveable, but only God knows what is in a person's heart in order to judge who has repented and who has not. If the priest does repent, he can be forgiven.

It isn't for anyone here to say, not you, not me. Only God can weigh what is in a person's heart when that time comes.

I find it interesting that atheists like to chide Christians for being judgmental, and yet here you are writing some very judgmental things in your own right.

As I wrote, I suppose it is possible for an atheist to accidentally stumble onto salvation without really being aware of what they are doing. And I think God will judge those who do not believe based on their merits; however God's standards are almost impossibly high. There are very few in the Bible who can be called righteous, so the odds of being one of the righteous atheists are not in your favor.

It is always good to have goals in life and I suppose utter perfection is better than anything else.

a reply to: ketsuko

You have a way of making this guy sound both breathtakingly refined and yet insufferably arrogant at the same time. He looks down on you for your own good and stuff. If I didn't know better, I'd say the teacher of love and humility wields an awful lot of pride and self-satisfaction. "I am god therfore I win! (Loud raspberry)"

One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.

The bibles I have read beg to differ in the extreme.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.

The bibles I have read beg to differ in the extreme.

Perhaps you need a real translation, not just a theo-illogical "version." Try a Young's Literal. Translate well, then make with the theology...

I'm curious - do your Bibles indicate that not everyone gets saved, or that God will not become All in all?

Paul only gets a bad wrap in the fundamentalistic lies and distortions Rome asserted on the world, ruthlessly murdering the early Christians who were gnostic and Essenes. And Paul was gnostic, The Church may have added a few lies to entrench him on another path, ie slaves and women, but what he wrote was all about the Inner Journey. The entire bible takes place within. There is no smiting God and hell is not permanent it means lower mind.

So many good articles here, was led to this and found some of my own interpretations and positive gnosis.

www.spiritofthescripture.com...

www.spiritofthescripture.com...
What is the True Symbolic Nature of Paul and His Christ: Part 1

www.spiritofthescripture.com...
Tradition of the Gnostic Apostle: The Legacy of Christ in You

a reply to: johndeere2020

I've got a golden ticket.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: Akragon

Find what is true by the effect it has on your life and others around you...

the gospels can change your life, but I can't say the same about Pauls writing, and especially not the OT books...

The truth came through the son of God... the rest are nothing but imitators... thieves and robbers as he said

But isn't that why there are already thousands of sects who claim to be xtian? Even if you strip the bible of everything but the gospels, the OP wouldn't agree with you. He thinks John is it. So now, you already have two sects. Add in the other xtians in this thread, and you have even more sects. So even using the four gospels, you still end up with chaos and disagreement among xtians.

There are thousands of sects because of preachers... each selling their own version of the bible

The message in the gospels is very simple... but most sects don't focus on the gospels, they focus on Paul or they try to mash Pauls letters into the gospels which just makes a convoluted mess which isn't even accurate

Christianity should require two things... Love God, and love your neighbour as yourself...

IF they stuck what Jesus taught, there would be one Christianity which I would proudly proclaim

But that ain't the case... each sect has to add their own flavor... and of course they need to make money just like every other business...

John holds the same message as the other three gospels, so even if the OP disagrees... He still maintains the message

Thus he agrees inadvertently

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: Klassified
How do you determine what parts of the bible are fallible, and which parts are infallible? And if you're wrong on which parts you cherry pick, then what?
It seems to me, the bible is either the "inspired" word of god, or it isn't. If it isn't, then why believe any of it? If it is, then how can you cherry pick what you like, and reject what you don't, then expect god to accept you as one of his own?

Find what is true by the effect it has on your life and others around you...

the gospels can change your life, but I can't say the same about Pauls writing, and especially not the OT books...

The truth came through the son of God... the rest are nothing but imitators... thieves and robbers as he said

S&F OP...

I love to see Christians wake up now and again

I practically go by the same rule

By the way, the things you said is found in John chapters 8 and 10.


The Gospel of John is DA BOMB! It further rebukes religious dedication. It's not about religion, it's how you treat everyone and I mean the poor and including animals (who tend to be helpless). The rich doesn't count because good deeds towards the rich tends to be self-serving (sucking up).

originally posted by: arpgme
Jesus did say what greater love is there than to lay down one's life for your friends, and that in order to be a disciple of Jesus you must follow his commandment which he gave : to love others as much as he loved us. THe idea of selfless love is the main focus which is right on target with the greatest love (agape) to give of yourself from joy and loving sacrifice .

That sounds simple enough that you don't have to hear it from a preacher or read from the Bible!

You won't read from Gospel of John to love God. I'm not suggesting that we hate God. If you do good, you probably already love God, you are simply not aware of it - even ifyou are an Atheist. There is much more to loving God than just weeping in church and doing all that churchy stuff.

It's just unfair that if you were never aware of God but did good all your life and you went to hell. The popular Christian theology is just unfair. You won't find any of those injustice in the Gospel of John!

Just to make myself clear, I'm not a "universalist" A bad/evil soul will at some point be destroyed, probably painless, I don't know. But knowing your existence in the universe is about to end, must be full of sorrow.

originally posted by: Akragon

There are thousands of sects because of preachers... each selling their own version of the bible

That is hard evidence of the rampant contradictions/false teachings in the Bible...

...A driver is a driver because he or she knows where to turn the steering wheel in order to turn to the right.

A driver's training manual is 100% consistent per country/region in order to produce one result - a driver.

Have you found a driver's manual that tells you in order to turn left, you must yank the turn indicator to the left and that's it... No, you must also turn the steering wheel to the left dummy!

And sadly, that's our Bible... In one verse, it says, you must turn the steering wheel to the left and in another verse, it tells you to yank the turn indicator only to achieve the same result which is to turn left or be saved - figuratively speaking.

One sect of Christianity interprets scripture in context of one belief and another to another. If the Bible is 100% consistent, there should be only one result - a 100% safe driver (figuratively speaking) and only one united Christianity.

So why the Bible is messed up?? Because according to St. John, God did not a promise us a book but the Spirit. The Bible did not come from God but thank God, some of the teachings of Christ found its way into it.

I am not promoting a one-world religion thingy. Honestly, I'd prefer that there were no religions at all. Following Christ is not a religion, it's a cause. And it's a cause that will save humanity not just in eternity but our physical existence as well.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: johndeere2020

Have you actually read the book of John? Because the cross the last supper the resurrection are all in there. Dude seriously. Everything you just claimed about Pauline Christianity is wrong.

It only said, they did the last supper, Jesus carried His cross in the Gospel John, nothing more...

It was Paul who **added** that the sins were nailed on that cross (mystified an instrument of torture into a religious icon) and we must conduct "holy communion". Those sentiment were also reflected in the other Gospels who were likely the followers of Paul like Luke, Matthew, and Mark.

There's a big difference in theology and I don't recognize the "Jesus" Paul is peddling.

Blind faith, No way for me! I'd prefer to keep my eyes open thank you!

What Jesus spread is a "cause" for humanity. Paul's ignorance tragically turned it into a religion just other religions in the world.

a reply to: johndeere2020
John 19:17 They took Jesus, therefore, and He went out, bearing His own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha. 18There they crucified Him, and with Him two other men, one on either side, and Jesus in between. 19Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross.


from the beginning of the book of John:

"Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"

The mystifying of a torture element again is not from Paul but from the institution.
When he speaks of the cross he is speaking about the event, not an object. That event is the ultimate fullfilment of Jesus' own sermon on the mount.

originally posted by: johndeere2020
...As long as they remain on the side of good and benevolence.

First and foremost, I don't believe the Bible is infallible. Out of it, the Gospel of John is the least corrupted. Some of the worst are in the Old Testament and the Epistles of Paul. Paul who nearly contradicted every teaching of Jesus! So I think Paul is a false apostle!

Can you please show where Paul contradicted everything Jesus says?

In particular, Atheists who practice asceticism and rally the cause of the poor and the weak (including animals) will be saved even if they don't believe in Christ.

The Gospel of John doesn't require belief in the name of Jesus (as most "Pauline" Christians will tell you!), all you have to do is to do good!

Ok first off, the name of Jesus is not a magical chant. when christians say "In Jesus name amen" at the end of their prayers they are confused, it is not a stamp of approval, which btw, they get that from the book of John, "if you ask anything in my name". What you and most people are missing in this is that the name of Jesus is his nature. In that day your name meant something. Jesus' name in Hebrew meant Yahweh Saves, or heals. He is also the divine logos made flesh according to Johns gospel also. That is the Name of Jesus, that the Logos has tabernacled in you and me, that the word dwells in us. The life of God in us should cause healing, shalom, peace, love between us, that is what the name of Jesus is.

- Most Christians will flaunt John 3:16 in your face but belief is works!! - John 14:12!! What Jesus did is live a life of asceticism, rallying the cause of the weak, and set people free from the ideals of this system run by the ruling elites!

Jesus did not live a life of asceticism. He turned water into wine in the book of John, his very first miracle. He ate lavish meals in the houses of rich folk, and poor meals in the house of the downtrodden "sinners". He was called a drunkard and a glutton by the pharisees.

- John 5:29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. (no mention of belief in the name of Jesus!)

- John 12:47-48 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. ("keep is not in the same context here as "accept". "Keep" is to act upon it. "Accept" is to welcome something as good but not necessarily do it.)


The Gospel of John has none of that virgin birth, blood communion, cross, resurrection, belief in the name of Jesus (as if it's like a magic spell) symbolisms that "Pauline Christianity" promotes.


Pauline Christianity is ridiculously unfair and unjust!!

In Pauline Christianity, it makes it possible for you to be extremely benevolent but because you never accepted Jesus in your heart because you live in the middle of the Amazon Forest and never seen a single missionary, you will go to hell if you die in that moment while on the other hand, a person who continues to do evil but because he accepted Jesus, he will go to heaven!!

Does that sound right to you?? NO it isn't!! BTW, I also found out there is no eternal torture in hell. Bad people simply lose their souls at some point in time and ceases to exist, no eternal torture and that's in the Bible too!!

I get it. Yes brother you are railing against the unfairness of christianity. I am in full agreement with you. But please understand they did not get this from Paul, or from the other gospels, or from the OT for that matter. Hell is not in the bible, and neither is annihilation. Paul, and John specifically taught Universal Salvation. Jesus is the savior of the world. He says (in John) when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself. That word there draw means to drag literally, like in a net. Paul speaks of the reconciliation of all men over and over, and NOWHERE DOES HE SPEAK OF ETERNAL TORTURE. I promise you that. I have scoured every page in search of the doctrine of Eternal Torment, and it does not exist even remotely in Paul's letters (or the rest of the bible actually).

I've been a Christian for the last 20 years. A Pauline Christian, but no more! Apostle Paul is evil, the Bible is fallible, only someone who has stopped thinking will think otherwise! Else, Jesus rocks, church sucks!

Faith is supposed to see, not get blind!!

There is no blind faith!!

You have been a part of the institutional church, that has created doctrines of men. It does not come from the bible. It does not come from Paul. Please deny Ignorance, read for yourself. Stop repeating the internet trope. You are correct in your spirit knowing that this nonsense of churchianity is exactly that. You are correct the bible is fallible.

But please, stop presenting misinformation. This is not just written to you, but to all of those repeating the exact same things you've just said. Paul=/=church. That is absolute bull dooky. Heck the church=/=the church. The church we see now, whether protestant or catholic or other, if hierarchical is unbiblical. That is not the bride that the bridegroom has come for (John 3 calls Jesus the bridegroom).

a reply to: zardust

Jesus (Yeshu) means Salvation. It has nothing to do with yahweh.

Joshua (Yahushua) means yahweh saves,
There is a difference

a reply to: johndeere2020

I've been a Christian for the last 20 years. A Pauline Christian, but no more! Apostle Paul is evil, the Bible is fallible, only someone who has stopped thinking will think otherwise! Else, Jesus rocks, church sucks!

Dear John.
The solution to your problem is just as you are doing. Get yourself another religion and dump this Paul bashing. Now when you meet Jesus ask Him why he took this rotten Paul as a buddy. Just be sure that Paul is not standing behind Jesus when you give him a good tongue thrashing. You know the Muslims are looking for new guys to join their beheading club. Sounds like they have a lot of new recruits here on ATS.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: johndeere2020
John 19:17 They took Jesus, therefore, and He went out, bearing His own cross, to the place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha. 18There they crucified Him, and with Him two other men, one on either side, and Jesus in between. 19Pilate also wrote an inscription and put it on the cross.


from the beginning of the book of John:

"Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"

As I've said, not-so-special mention of the cross.


But not to Paul who also added his own words:

Colossians 2:14-15
having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

"Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world"

See, no mention of the cross. However, Jesus did not do it in one event for all. Jesus took away the sin of the world by exposing it (John 7:7)

Only Paul seems to be enchanted by the symbolism of the cross.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
One more time: Ultimately, EVERYONE gets saved, because otherwise God cannot become All in all.

The bibles I have read beg to differ in the extreme.

Perhaps you need a real translation, not just a theo-illogical "version." Try a Young's Literal. Translate well, then make with the theology...

I'm curious - do your Bibles indicate that not everyone gets saved, or that God will not become All in all?

the former. not everyone will be saved or there would be no need for hell. and whats the point of making rules if everyone gets a free pass anyway? i was under the impression that he is a vengeful god. that doesnt sound like someone willing to suffer a change of heart on a dime.

originally posted by: zardust
that the Logos has tabernacled in you and me, that the word dwells in us. The life of God in us should cause healing, shalom, peace, love between us, that is what the name of Jesus is.

In this context I agree with you. Actually, that also implies that the Word could also dwell among the good Atheists.

The literal belief of existence in a God can be very shallow. It's the deeds that really counts.

originally posted by: [post=18417609] It does not come from the bible. It does not come from Paul. Please deny Ignorance, read for yourself. Stop repeating the internet trope. You are correct in your spirit knowing that this nonsense of churchianity is exactly that. You are correct the bible is fallible.

Paul did say a lot of good stuff. Ironically, he also contradicted himself. So we have one part of Paul agreeing with Christ and another part contradicting.

You can reason that I'm merely misinterpreting the context of Paul's message and I'm getting the opposite meaning to the intended meaning....

But if many of Paul's teachings in plain sight appear to be contradictory to the message of Jesus, then perhaps, that is the intended meaning and we should stop twisting the message of Paul to agree with Christ.

If a man keeps saying "left" while you think he might mean "right", perhaps, he actually meant "left".