Mainstream news media censoring online debates and forums to control foreign policy narrative?

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

OP you are not the only one who noticed this.

I've noticed for a long time censoring of anything anti mainstream pushed.

While shills and trolls for the government are protected.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

well written and well said mate, thanks for your work.

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
How do we truly and effectively counter the power and reach of mass media if it has become propaganda? This is a critical question for any kind of activist.

First of all, don't try to do it on their turf. Quit thinking that posting on their sites will make a difference. Their house, their rules and they can delete anyone they want.

Secondly, it's going to take time. It took time for things to get this point, so it's going to take time to turn this ship around.

Sorry, but that's all I got. Just build up a counter method to their method somehow to where your method seems more legitimate to the public.

spot on mate. I think one of the things we also have to do is try not to sound to alarmist, too radical. we must learn the art of dip-o-speak like politicans do.

a reply to: Yeahkeepwatchingme

As much as I love ATS I have to say it's a tool of TPTB. Sites like this exist to gauge the opinions of those willing to speak of such things.

Some of the MSM sites put up click through statistics showing what the hot item on the days menu is.
Always seems to end up being something like the 911 threads on ATS.
Think "intellectual energy conservation".

originally posted by: BettyHill400
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

OP you are not the only one who noticed this.

I've noticed for a long time censoring of anything anti mainstream pushed.

While shills and trolls for the government are protected.

It's good to know that others have seen it.

For me, the most frustrating thing is that most of my friends and family still buy most of the mainstream media stuff, especially on foreign affairs. And even people who are very well educated ON foreign affairs.

originally posted by: learnatic

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
How do we truly and effectively counter the power and reach of mass media if it has become propaganda? This is a critical question for any kind of activist.

First of all, don't try to do it on their turf. Quit thinking that posting on their sites will make a difference. Their house, their rules and they can delete anyone they want.

Secondly, it's going to take time. It took time for things to get this point, so it's going to take time to turn this ship around.

Sorry, but that's all I got. Just build up a counter method to their method somehow to where your method seems more legitimate to the public.

spot on mate. I think one of the things we also have to do is try not to sound to alarmist, too radical. we must learn the art of dip-o-speak like politicans do.

I agree, communication, presentation, and balance are needed. People won't listen otherwise. For many, they have to be eased into it or the correct moment is necessary. This is something I am really trying to learn (not saying I am good at it), becoming proficient at communicating difficult and important issues effectively in a way that people will actually listen. Not an easy task with many hard issues.

originally posted by: learnatic
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

well written and well said mate, thanks for your work.

Thanks man, appreciated.

a reply to: Fylgje

'Banned From CNN' club.

CNN Banned me for my views on Syria during the protests 2011 and for my views on the Balkans.

-No insults were ever posted in any of my comments that i posted.
-Several of my comments had the most up votes.

-I was always rebated by a user calling themselves BearClinton whom kept defending everything.

Ohhhhh, I have had debates with Clintonbear as well!!!

She was definitely out in force any time any Syrian article was being discussed. For SURE. And always pro-west and allies and virulently anti-Assad. Everything was exactly as the news said according to her.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Fylgje

'Banned From CNN' club.

CNN Banned me for my views on Syria during the protests 2011 and for my views on the Balkans.

-No insults were ever posted in any of my comments that i posted.
-Several of my comments had the most up votes.

-I was always rebated by a user calling themselves BearClinton whom kept defending everything.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Wait what? she was a she?

Can't say about the US, I'm positive it's happening, sockpuppets and all that, this type of tactic goes on in Sweden too, media will censor anyone that's not toting the multicultural Marxistic spiel. These last years they have pretty much all shut down their comments section if related to immigration and such. Only one opinion is valid and they'll be tolerant until you deviate from the state and media sponsored worldview and ideology.

If they can keep up the view to the public that it is only a tiny minority that disagrees with the official narrative people will be less likely to speak up.

This will be a rude awakening for the majority of people, they'll be waking up one morning realizing they're caged in and wondering what ever happened.

To my knowledge. I think in one debate "she" said that she was a woman if I remember correctly. I could be mistaken.

I'm American raised, but actually of Swedish descent.

The thing is, I am a moderate leftist according to most.

However, the point I am making, and I am sure that we can agree on, is that the point of media and news is not to control the information nor only allow the official party line, whatever that may be. One, to have a real democracy and effective policies all people have to give input and have a rigorous discussion. Two, most people get their basic info from the mass media and journalistic principles state that not only should media/journalism be a check on the government and on official actions but also that they are supposed to provide as much as possible all sides of an issue, not just propaganda. We can't have an effective democracy or people representation if people aren't given varying views and critiques of the government view.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
Can't say about the US, I'm positive it's happening, sockpuppets and all that, this type of tactic goes on in Sweden too, media will censor anyone that's not toting the multicultural Marxistic spiel. These last years they have pretty much all shut down their comments section if related to immigration and such. Only one opinion is valid and they'll be tolerant until you deviate from the state and media sponsored worldview and ideology.

If they can keep up the view to the public that it is only a tiny minority that disagrees with the official narrative people will be less likely to speak up.

This will be a rude awakening for the majority of people, they'll be waking up one morning realizing they're caged in and wondering what ever happened.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
How do we truly and effectively counter the power and reach of mass media if it has become propaganda? This is a critical question for any kind of activist.

First post for me here on the forum.

Let me say this: I have not watched on-air TV stations or subscriber TV or cable TV for more than 5 years now. I only find slight amusement in reality shows like Survivor and The Amazing Race (and both incidentally have sponsors using embedded advertising). In March of 2003, post-Operation Shock and Awe, I found the TV propaganda to be so high I stopped watching the news because it was sickening. At the time, I was living where FOX News was a hit because of the military bases in town. Every newscast was filled with interviews of the public supporting the war. Two stand out in my mind the most, 1) a senior in a diner saying basically, "We've got to get these terrorists before they come here and get us" (typical Bush administration brainwashing), and 2) a young group of elementary ed students singing God Bless America "for the troops." Now, I realize this may sound like I don't support the US military servicemen and women, but it's not true. I don't support war, especially when it has little to do with the actual defense of the country. I can just imagine with this ISIS crisis going on the kind of manufactured reality FOX News and the others are spinning for the public. They'll induce anxiety, encourage hatred and blind patriotism, and do it through sheer lies and misinformation.

So then, to answer the question, "How do we truly and effectively counter the power and reach of mass media if it has become propaganda?" I think more people should stop watching TV. If this sounds extremist to you, consider that if you like certain shows you can often find them on the Internet without commercials. I haven't seen a car commercial in 5 years; no pharmaceutical company's nonsense about some fake magic bullet that doesn't actually work or causes another illness; no McDonald's pitch to the lower middle class to somehow eat junk and still smile; and most importantly, no news shows. I get my news through the Internet from multiple sources, and I avoid video newscasts.

If you can eliminate people watching TV by steering them to the Internet, which has by far more choices (almost endless), it takes care of one important source of propaganda and misinformation put out there by top corporations representing that .1% of the wealthiest who don't deserve to be the authority. Of course, major networks are out on the Internet too, but they are competing with far more content than what's available on TV stations.

I hope that's not too harsh for this forum.

Regarding CNN, I've been able to comment without deletions, but there's too many blockheads posting hatred there now to make it worthwhile. Try posting comments for news articles at the NY Times or Reuters and you'll see better results.

a reply to: Fylgje

On IGN, look up #GamerGate. They are heavily implicated in that, I believe as are Kotaku. It seems that gamers are getting tired of the incestuous relationship between game companies, gaming sites, special interest shills and so-called professional gaming journalists.

Thanks for the reply.

I am with you. First, I haven't had a personal TV since 2001 probably, when I moved out of my parents' house. There have been a few roommates here and there that had one. And, when I go to visit people I'll allow myself to watch some TV. But in general, I simply don't watch TV beyond that.

Second, I 100% agree with you. I realized around coming of age in 1999-2002 area (18-21) and then the whole Bush era and the wars that the mass media really was propaganda. I knew, even before I really researched heavily the history of these conflicts and so on, that the government and media was misrepresenting something, that these wars were not for "freedom and democracy."

I agree that eliminating or reducing mass media exposure is a powerful move for anyone, not just for policy issues but also such things as gender roles, body image, fashion-obsessions, etc.

I disagree with you however that a realistic solution requires a majority of people unplugging. Yes, if they did this would be a major intervention or change. But, it is highly doubtful that it will occur, even if we wish it would happen. Hence, back to square one: how do aware people counter the power and reach of the mass media?

It is a critical need for any pressing local, national, or global issue that needs to be addressed, including war, economy, environment, you name it.

originally posted by: Petros312

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
How do we truly and effectively counter the power and reach of mass media if it has become propaganda? This is a critical question for any kind of activist.

First post for me here on the forum.

Let me say this: I have not watched on-air TV stations or subscriber TV or cable TV for more than 5 years now. I only find slight amusement in reality shows like Survivor and The Amazing Race (and both incidentally have sponsors using embedded advertising). In March of 2003, post-Operation Shock and Awe, I found the TV propaganda to be so high I stopped watching the news because it was sickening. At the time, I was living where FOX News was a hit because of the military bases in town. Every newscast was filled with interviews of the public supporting the war. Two stand out in my mind the most, 1) a senior in a diner saying basically, "We've got to get these terrorists before they come here and get us" (typical Bush administration brainwashing), and 2) a young group of elementary ed students singing God Bless America "for the troops." Now, I realize this may sound like I don't support the US military servicemen and women, but it's not true. I don't support war, especially when it has little to do with the actual defense of the country. I can just imagine with this ISIS crisis going on the kind of manufactured reality FOX News and the others are spinning for the public. They'll induce anxiety, encourage hatred and blind patriotism, and do it through sheer lies and misinformation.

So then, to answer the question, "How do we truly and effectively counter the power and reach of mass media if it has become propaganda?" I think more people should stop watching TV. If this sounds extremist to you, consider that if you like certain shows you can often find them on the Internet without commercials. I haven't seen a car commercial in 5 years; no pharmaceutical company's nonsense about some fake magic bullet that doesn't actually work or causes another illness; no McDonald's pitch to the lower middle class to somehow eat junk and still smile; and most importantly, no news shows. I get my news through the Internet from multiple sources, and I avoid video newscasts.

If you can eliminate people watching TV by steering them to the Internet, which has by far more choices (almost endless), it takes care of one important source of propaganda and misinformation put out there by top corporations representing that .1% of the wealthiest who don't deserve to be the authority. Of course, major networks are out on the Internet too, but they are competing with far more content than what's available on TV stations.

I hope that's not too harsh for this forum.

Regarding CNN, I've been able to comment without deletions, but there's too many blockheads posting hatred there now to make it worthwhile. Try posting comments for news articles at the NY Times or Reuters and you'll see better results.

I was never a huge fan of huffington post, but I officially gave up on it when the NSA story broke, and it was the only site on the entire internet where every single comment was "if you aren't doing anything wrong who cares" there wasn't one single comment objecting to it. I always knew it had a heavy bias, but the obvious attempt to manipulate the discussion was it for me.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I disagree with you however that a realistic solution requires a majority of people unplugging. Yes, if they did this would be a major intervention or change. But, it is highly doubtful that it will occur, even if we wish it would happen. Hence, back to square one: how do aware people counter the power and reach of the mass media?

If I can go before square one and add something about human behavior and the masses:

You quoted Orwell as having said:
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

In his 1949 novel titled 1984, Winston's example is why more people are unwilling to see the oppression coming from the authority (more commonly called "the media"). You have to be willing to suffer in order to see the truth.

Winston Smith was actually responsible for a significant portion of his own suffering because he refused to conform to what the authority expected of him.

Obviously the level of oppression coming from the authority in Orwell's (fictional) book is over the top. The authority is placing restrictions on what the public can think. But I was thinking: Isn't there a portion of Winston's suffering, other than the direct torture inflicted on him when he's in the hands of the thought police, that is his own responsibility? If so, he's not a total victim. He is punished for rebelling against the authority by being autonomous, thinking for himself as an individual, and violating the rules at his employment as a writer at the Ministry of Truth. Many of us feel that our society is oppressing us to the point that war is peace, freedom is slavery, and so for most people ignorance becomes bliss. But then there are those of us like Winston who want to rebel (not violently). To consciously NOT become ignorant for the sake of your own well-being is actually a cause of suffering. But if it's a choice that the individual makes to do this, isn't the person choosing to suffer? How does the individual do what Winston attempts -- to reveal the lies, to speak out against misinformation, to resist the pressures of conformity when you know the large majority are doing something else?

You go to places like comments boards on CNN, sift through the double speak of articles, try to speak the truth, and then others condemn you because they don't want to suffer through knowing the truth. They have what's called a "cognitive set" about many topics that was influenced by the propaganda. So for them to re-think what they think is true causes what's known as "cognitive dissonance." The dissonance is like mental pain, and most people seek to resolve the dissonance in a way that they don't need to change their minds.

You can't stop people from having their minds controlled by media propaganda, unless first, they are willing to suffer a little.

a reply to: intrptr

If they had their way they'd do away with the internet and go back to one way media dissemination of information.

They do have their way, that is why net neutrality was undone. Without net neutrality they get back control of the internet medium.

They have the capibility and now the right to pick and choose the internet winners. The Axis of Evil sites will become so slow that the majority of the heard won't even consider grazing at it.

a reply to: interupt42

The Axis of Evil sites will become so slow that the majority of the heard won't even consider grazing at it.

That was funny. I thought the herd barely glances at the cover of magazines in the grocery store checkout. That and ball games, and maybe a little Facebook. Hopefully that is changing,

How many times must the cannon ball fly?

They will be here, if we build it they will come, eventually.