California, Oregon Aerosol Spraying continues the Drought 9 11 2014

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: network dude

Absolutely. They may not be trying to change global climate but the are altering local weather and when it happens tens-of-thousands of times that likely has an impact on a larger scale. What happens to the downstream farmer when the upstream farmer pulls more water than his share? Someone is getting screwed. If Colorado seeds the clouds that may or may not have produced, we probably get less moisture to the east.

Right, and how does all that affect the people in Mexico? If you answer it doesn't then perhaps it's not GLOBAL but LOCAL.

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: network dude

Or a form of geo-engineering was occurring prior to the term being coined.

Right, so why isn't cloud seeding outlawed?

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Ok.....?

I don't think we are to far off as they are all the same...sure some contrails are misidentified I would say many are, as there is little need to seed over large populations. What it looks like depends on the method used, flairs leave a minimal trail while aerosols leave a heavier longer lasting trail. It also depends on the dispersal method.

I'm not sure why you would disperse "stuff" (silver iodide or whatever) at 6 or 7 miles up if you wanted it to rain in a particular spot -- which is the goal of cloud seeding. Wouldn't it be much smarter to just do it at lower altitudes, such as where normal cloud seeding is done?

Plus, most of the people who claim "chemtrails" have said that the sky was blue, and then the trails were spread. If the goal of the alleged "spraying of the trails" was to seed clouds, why did they do it on a blue-sky day? What clouds are they seeding?

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Weather Modification is Geo-engineering on a local scale.

No it isn't, because one actually takes place and the other is being studied by computer models.

And I think you are mistaking this for regular cloudseeding as in the vid I linked earlier.

www.ucar.edu...

They are only as far as computer models in the area of geoengineering, whereas cloud seeding has been used for 60 years or even longer, so your trying to make a connection that doesn't exist.

Ok we are getting too fixated on one aspect of weather modification and why it happens. One could learn about all this if they just looked into it even a little.

There are many regulations on weather modification, some laws and regulations.

Blue-sky's becoming 'cloud' covered or artificial clouds would not be cloud seeding it could be a number of things depending on the location, solar dimming, surveillance satellite cover, ground view cover for test flights. It could also just simply be a high air traffic region....PBS Contrail Effect

There is no need to debate this as I think we all agree on what these things are we just disagree on the scale they are happening. Some think geo-engineering isn't happening, I think they are experimenting with it and it is sometimes seen. I think like other disinformation operation chemtrails(the term) has been used to cover-up what is actually going on and muddy the waters.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

What geo-engineering is being experimented on? I am not saying it couldn't happen, but as of right now, there is no indications that it is.

As I said, everyone involved thinks that there may be huge ramifications to doing this, and all the people who seem to have some sense, feel this way. There has been talk of studies, and tests, but nothing has been proven to have happened.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Ok we are getting too fixated on one aspect of weather modification and why it happens. One could learn about all this if they just looked into it even a little.

And I would suggest you starting here...

www.weathermodification.org...

a reply to: network dude

I understand that and many argued against the atomic bomb as well as many other controversial methods, techniques, and experiments that sill happened.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Very familiar with that site....thanks.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

So since "they" made stupid mistakes before, we should just assume they are doing it again?

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should be watching this stuff like hawks. And to be honest, I am not sure how defending contrails and the basic science that explains them, morphed into the need to defend geo-engineering. But since some opportunists (Dane Wigington) saw a chance to re-invigorate the chemtrail nonsense to keep his $ flowing, I suppose this will continue.

As you know with masonry, you can only watch someone be a dumbass for so long before you have to laugh at them. I laugh at the ones who wont accept persistent contrails.

a reply to: network dude

Absolutely because money is what drives it all. To say contrails don't account for a large portion of 'chemtrail' sightings is imo ridiculous but some see conspiracy in everything. Contrail absolutely exist and some are absolutely persistent, but a small portion are neither.

a reply to: stosh64

Okay, this is what happens when someone has made zero attempt to understand how climate and weather works and then looks at a satellite image to interpret it.

Here is the water vapor satellite image from the last 48 hours:
climate.cod.edu...

Those streaks that he's claiming to be chemtrails? That's water vapor. Now water vapor doesn't always equal precipitation. Precipitation occurs when air is cooled, allowing the water vapor to condense to the point of rainfall. What he is calling chemtrails is water vapor. Whether it is cooled enough to drop rain is up in the air (ha ha, I made a punny).

What makes the weather isn't simply air flowing around and bashing about randomly. You have high and low pressure ridges. The higher the pressure of a ridge, the more impervious it becomes against lower pressure ridges and it essentially becomes a wall. The actual source of the drought has been what was dubbed the Ridiculously Resilient Ridge--a high pressure formation off the West coast.

extras.mnginteractive.com...

Previously that ridge had created an almost devoid of water vapor pocket of air to the West of California. That pocket of dry air is now further South off the coast of Mexico. That is because the Ridiculously Resilient Ridge is actually breaking down. If you live in Oregon today, odds are you have a refreshing change in your sky as opposed to the neverending big blue bowl--cloud cover. Yay for Oregon.

Here's a really good article on the subject from Stanford University:

To understand how blocking ridges can cause drought conditions in California, Swain said to imagine a boulder that has fallen into a flowing stream. "The stream has two options, it can flow to one side of the boulder or the other," Swain said.

news.stanford.edu...

Starting to make sense? Now what doesn't make sense is why the guy who made that video in your OP honestly seems to think that the government would literally destroy billions of dollars of industries, plunge vast areas of land into extreme fire hazard risks, deplete massive water reservoirs and enforce the killing of untold number of cattle to boot. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Very familiar with that site....thanks.

And yet you still think cloudseeding is geoengineering...that leaves me baffled as to how you come to this conclusion.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Contrail absolutely exist and some are absolutely persistent, but a small portion are neither.

Okay let's try this...

You show me any scientific evidence that someone has been up and tested contrails only to find they weren't contrails, because as of this post that hasn't happened and the one's tested were just what they say they are...contrails.

Can you do that...since it is happening as you say then finding that should be fairly easy.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I have explained it twice now.....I am baffled as to how you can't make the logical connection. This debate and thread for that matter are not going anywhere, so I will recuse myself. May your day be more productive, off to work.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

This debate and thread for that matter are not going anywhere, so I will recuse myself. May your day be more productive, off to work.

You haven't provided anything that relates the two, and saying cloudseeding is geoenginering doesn't work.

Here I think this says it best.

"This is not the way science works. If you tell me that you have a theory that weather modification is geoengineering it\s not up to me to prove it does not exist it\s up to you to provide the reproducible scientific evidence for your theory. "

Have you proven your theory...No you have not.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Contrail absolutely exist and some are absolutely persistent, but a small portion are neither.

Okay let's try this...

You show me any scientific evidence that someone has been up and tested contrails only to find they weren't contrails, because as of this post that hasn't happened and the one's tested were just what they say they are...contrails.

Can you do that...since it is happening as you say then finding that should be fairly easy.

Okay how about you try this? Try learning about the climate and how the weather works, then read and respond to my post. It seems that you are ignoring it.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
There is no theory to prove or disprove nor do I even desire to prove anything to you as it is all a matter of opinion....Weather modification impacts the localized weather and weather modification done in thousands of places all the time is geo-engineering in that it is changing climate on a large scale regionally possibly even globally...it is logic. Saying all these modifications do not have a possible global impact is illogical.

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: network dude

Absolutely because money is what drives it all. To say contrails don't account for a large portion of 'chemtrail' sightings is imo ridiculous but some see conspiracy in everything. Contrail absolutely exist and some are absolutely persistent, but a small portion are neither.

Great. You are narrowing it down. Now, which ones are not contrails and why.

This is where I have issues. Unless you have something more than fear, you cannot say this with anything other than conspiracy to back up your claims. Others have made the same claims and not been able to back up why they feel that way too. I sure hope you make a better attempt.

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
a reply to: tsurfer2000h
There is no theory to prove or disprove nor do I even desire to prove anything to you as it is all a matter of opinion....Weather modification impacts the localized weather and weather modification done in thousands of places all the time is geo-engineering in that it is changing climate on a large scale regionally possibly even globally...it is logic. Saying all these modifications do not have a possible global impact is illogical.

But how often is cloud seeding done? I'll give you a hint, it's not unless there are already clouds that could produce rain. So a drought with no clouds will have no seeding. I think this is where you are going astray.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Weather modification impacts the localized weather and weather modification done in thousands of places all the time is geo-engineering in that it is changing climate on a large scale regionally

No. Cloud seeding does not change climate. It does not turn arid regions wet. It does not turn deserts into farmlands. It would be irrigation that does that.