Have Al Qaeda been U.S. puppets all along?

originally posted by: yourmaker

Well everyone including China, North Korea, and Russia are puppets

I find it weird how we just name collective groups of millions like that.
As if there aren't many people within those nations that solemnly dissent on an unseen level

Am I Canada? Do I personify my nation as a statistic among the collective rather than live a unique identity within it?

what is the end game?

CT's vs T's in perpetuity, where the citizens wait to be saved from the government every single time, or end up taking arms against it while the people who make the weaponry and ideologies continue on the sideline making profit existing in a security dragnet created/guarded by the citizens they use as pawns to be hidden behind, used and discarded

I think it's safe to say he was referring to those nations' governments, not the people.

As an American, I agree with you.

Given the proven history of the CIA over the past 60 years, including but not limited to overthrowing democratically elected governments in other countries and installing dictators, I hold that they are not only completely out of control but have undertaken activities completely contrary to the universal human rights that the Founding Fathers believed in.

Side note, any American that claims to believe and love "American values," the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Founding Fathers yet is all for might makes right abroad, said CIA actions, and us stomping down the rights of other people and countries, does not understand anything about those values and in reality, is a traitor to them. The same goes for all such public officials.

If someone actually understands the "god-derived" self-evident human rights that the Founding Fathers and Enlightenment thinkers talked about, they would realize that the whole philosophy stated that those rights are NOT based on American citizenship but are inherent global, and universal human rights. This means we can't violate them abroad and pretend to respect such values and rights.

You can't claim we are all for democracy and then turn the other way when the CIA overthrows democracies or we install compliant dictators. Incompatible.

originally posted by: Jchristopher5
The world used to be a happier place before I, as a United States citizen came to the conclusion that much of the evil in the world has roots in the CIA.

Starting in 1953, when Ike took office, the covert posture of the CIA was formed. Allen Dulles, IMHO, is one of the most evil SOBs that ever lived. His secret reign of terror has continued with successor after successor.

Consider those proven conspiracies:

Project Mockingbird
MK Ultra
Northwoods
PRISM

When you consider the way the joint chiefs were ready to kill innocent Americans to justify war with Cuba (Northwoods) why are 911 "truthers" so scorned?

Yes, I am of the belief that both Al Qaeda and ISIS are, in large part, CIA creations.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
I agree with everything you are saying.

To answer your point about "why have we been doing this for 60 years if all that seems to happen is more chaos or instability in the long run," I think that part of the secret here is that the Pentagon or powers that be couldn't care less about the stability or people of some of these countries. Their goal is either to retain control of a region or to stop an enemy such as Russia from having or retaining control over a country or region (read Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Iran, etc). They are willing to disrupt a place to achieve that end.

Another piece that is maybe just opining on my part is that perhaps the west wants to keep many of these countries slightly chaotic such that they do not become powerful enough to threaten western interests.

Here is an analogy from my video game experience. When I used to play war strategy games, I caught on very quickly that it is much easier to attack the enemy early while they are weak and then keep on periodically attacking to keep them weak than it is to wait until they grow a force big enough to defeat you and also attack. Just food for thought, but maybe this explains one or two of these situations as well?

Thoughts on those?

That's another point that I've thought about... we destabilize the middle east so they can't unite against Western interests.

Another possibility is that the whole crazy thing is nothing more than a proxy war against Russia... preventing them from profiting in the region.

Agreed, as I noted in my post in the first paragraph. The Syria situation and Ukraine are most definitely proxy wars with Russia, as was Vietnam, Korean War, etc.

I have no proof, but I was told Osama Bin Laden was a CIA asset back when they were fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. The US supplied stinger missiles and other weapons. It was the stinger missiles that changed the war for the Russians. They were using their Hind Attack Helicopters and devastating the mujahedin The Russians couldn't give close air support any longer and it caused them to eventually fail and leave Afghanistan with their tail between their legs.

The CIA was supplying the mujaheddin and after the war tried to get rid of Osama and that is what turned him against the US. The term 'Al Qaeda' means 'The Base' and was allegedly based on a 'database' kept by the CIA of all the mujaheddin fighters. This was verbal, so I have to say it was hearsay, however it makes sense.

Anyway, that is also not surprising considering that this Administration has been arming radical Muslim groups (terrorists) like the fighters in Libya and after that armed fighters in Syria. Unfortunately the group the armed turned into IS (ISIS or ISIL). Obama could be charged with treason for giving aid and comfort to the enemy by supplying money, weapons, and much more to the,. He has armed factions of the Muslim Brotherhood as well. I don't think anything will come of it in the US, but something should be done. Just like Fast and Furious, they let weapons move weapons into Mexico to the cartels.

Things going on in this world are out of control and this Administration has no qualms whatsoever breaking the law, and bending others to the breaking point and no one of any consequence has done anything about it.

And as in other threads, it wouldn't surprise if arms manufacturers, and other Military Industrial Complex lobbyists have been trying to keep hotspots active to sell more weapons. If the US is going to leave equipment behind, it should be melted with Thermite so it is useless to an enemy. There are some very fine, excellent condition weapons I have seen in stockpiles, which give terrorists plenty of free American arms.

How fast opinions would change if they were doing the same in this country and had sufficient numbers to do so,. I sue hop the intelligence reports about ISIS fighters are in Ciudad Juarez working and training with cartels, although they probably know more than the Cartels can dish ot. I think we are going to start seeing Muslim heads on poles in Mexico before long if they start causing problems for the Cartels. Remember that is against their rules.

Well, there is my 2 cents...do with it what yo will. You can do a little research and find out this information for yourself.

originally posted by: Answer
One reason is because during these conflicts we bleed $$ and cannot track them. The whole thing fills certain pockets, allows much easier hiding of rackets that have been going on since WWI. It empowers persons who had no power and now it is helping to build private armies that we will never know who really is in controls.

So you think the CIA has good intentions but it keeps falling apart? They just haven't learned from their umpteen mistakes?

I am not sure how you got that from what I said...whatever.

You're a little jaded... I wasn't being sarcastic. I was asking genuinely to understand your reply more clearly.
I read it as saying that we arm and fund these groups thinking they have good intentions and the money/guns end up in the wrong hands because we can't keep track of where it goes.

I could be, (better to say you think I am a little jaded) but I am pretty used to being understood correctly although not always on ATS.
No I am saying they have their party and you buy the booze..or
The secret is there is no CIA as we know it, it is simply a business now or a mafia would describe it best like all the other agencies their task is making money and removing obstacles, secret money to pay for things being done in the world that would probably truly shock even ATS ers.

Yep. After ISIL there will be a new monster created. And they'll be "evil" and want to "attack Americans freedom". Then after that, another one. The military industrial complex needs these things to keep getting billions upon billions of greenbacks.

Mark my words after IS will be Hezbollah/Iran.Remember the last time the MIC and it's various creatures tried to get the public behind an invasion they were talking about establishing US bases in Syria.Looking at the most recent polls they might have convinced the public to do it.

No. Not completely. But partially.

But they are controlled/co-oped by Saudi intelligence,CIA, and MI5.

The west is using the insane islamic imperialist barbarians to destablize the oil producing countries.Why? To keep China and Russia from getting the cheap oil.

We do not want for the chinese and the russians to get cheap energy or sell it(petrol dollar will be threatened)