Special Report: Moscow stifles dissent as soldiers return in coffins (Round 2)

Special Report: Moscow stifles dissent as soldiers return in coffins

MOSCOW 2014 (Reuters) - Late last month Yelena Tumanova was handed the body of her son in a coffin at her home in Russia's Western Volga region. Anton Tumanov was 20 and a soldier serving in the Russian army in the North Caucasus region of Chechnya.

The documents Yelena Tumanova was given with the body raised more questions than they answered - questions about how her son died and about the Russian government’s denials that its troops are in Ukraine. The records do not show Anton Tumanov’s place of death, said human rights activists who spoke to his mother after she got in touch with them.

"Medical documents said there were shrapnel wounds, that is he died from a loss of blood, but how it happened and where were not indicated,” said Sergei Krivenko, who heads a commission on military affairs on Russia’s presidential human rights council.

Just this one unit -

Human rights workers and military workers say some 15 other Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine, with hundreds more now in hospital.

The fact that Russian soldiers have died in a war in which they officially have no involvement is a problem in Russia. Chatter about young soldiers returning home in coffins has begun to spread over the past few weeks. Though still limited, such talk has powerful echoes of earlier Russian wars such as Chechnya and Afghanistan.

This is why Putin has a problem -

The idea of an outright invasion of eastern Ukraine by Russian troops is highly unpopular in Russia. A survey by pro-Kremlin pollster Fund of Social Opinions said 57 percent of Russians support the separatist Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, but only 5 percent support an invasion of Ukrainian territory.

Russia continues to silence people demanding answers about their relatives deaths -

Russian authorities have worked to systematically silence rights workers' complaints over soldiers’ deaths, intimidating those who question the Kremlin's denials that its soldiers are in Ukraine.

Krivenko and Polyakova, who is also the head of an organization representing soldiers' mothers in St. Petersburg, filed a petition on Aug. 25 asking Russian investigators for an explanation for the deaths at Snizhnye.

So far they have heard nothing. But soon after the petition was filed to the Investigative Committee, a law enforcement body that answers only to President Vladimir Putin, Polyakova was told her organization, which has existed since the 1991 break-up of the Soviet Union, had been branded a 'foreign agent.'

The term, brought in by Putin in 2012 to set apart non-governmental organizations that receive foreign funding and engage in political activities, carries no real punitive measures but is often used to discredit critics of the Kremlin.

Polyakova says she has been at odds with the authorities over her stance toward Russia's annexation of Crimea. She believes authorities gave her the ‘foreign agent’ tag because of her petition and an Aug. 28 interview with Reuters in which she first accused Moscow of covering up the deaths of Russian soldiers.

"It's all linked. This was just the last drop, so to speak," she said.

Russian Military Doctors talk about what they are seeing -

And Reuters was able to find people who know of hundreds of soldiers injured in Ukraine, or whose relatives are fighting in Ukraine, building up the most comprehensive picture yet of Russian battlefield casualties in the country.

A military doctor told Reuters that hundreds of Russian soldiers injured in fighting in eastern Ukraine are now in military hospitals in the regions of Moscow, St. Petersburg and Rostov, which borders Ukraine.

"Generally they bring (the injured) to Rostov and to Moscow," he said.

Russian soldiers are being forced to go to Ukraine -

A cab driver in Moscow who gave his name as Vitaly said his son was also sent to Ukraine. He has a picture on his dashboard of the 20-year-old boy smiling atop an armored personnel carrier.

Vitaly says he is furious that his son – a paratrooper based in Pskov near Estonia - has been sent to Ukraine to fight for the rebels.

"They sent him there illegally to fight for the rebels two weeks ago. He says he'll be back on Nov. 20. I'm counting the days," he said.

Vitaly says officers tried to force his son - serving mandatory military service - to change his status to a contract soldier, which would legally allow him to serve abroad. Conscripts in Russia are exempt from foreign service.

His son refused to sign, but officers sent him to Ukraine anyway.

"They dressed him up like a rebel so no one would know he was a Russian soldier and off he went," said Vitaly.

Russians being disguised as Rebels once they cross into Ukraine and meet up with the rebels -

is son refused to sign, but officers sent him to Ukraine anyway.

"They dressed him up like a rebel so no one would know he was a Russian soldier and off he went," said Vitaly.

Rolan, the serviceman who fought alongside Tumanov in Snizhnye, says he spent 10 days fighting in Ukraine in the middle of August. Back home in the Krasnodar region, he said his commanders offered soldiers the option to go to Ukraine. The men could refuse, but the commanders were very supportive of those who agreed. Rolan went, he said, because of his military oath and to protect Russian-speakers from Ukrainian forces, routinely referred to as fascists, in Russia. His unit put him on paid leave to make the trip.

"(I wanted) to push neo-Nazis and pure fascists deep into the country or eliminate them and to free Russian-speaking population of this evil," he said.

He said he crossed into Ukraine in a truck without a license plate.

"On the Ukrainian side of the border, rebels met and guided us. In fact there is no border, just a field of sunflowers. There is Russia on one side of it and on the other side there is no more Russia."

The Kremlin is still going after people trying to investigate the deaths and to report on them - media and parents.

Rights activists and their lawyers say the biggest difference between the first Chechen War in the 1990s and now is that Russian authorities have become better at stopping information they don't like.

In the northwest Russian city of Pskov, reporters were chased away from a cemetery in late August where, according to accounts on social media, two Russian paratroopers killed in Ukraine are secretly buried.

On Aug. 21, Ukrainian journalist Roman Bochkala published on his Facebook page what he said were photographs of Russian documents recovered after Ukrainian forces clashed with an armored column of pro-Russian rebels near the village of Heorhiivka, eastern Ukraine.

A Russian politician told Reuters he was badly beaten by unknown assailants after publicizing the funerals of the paratroopers in Pskov.

"There is a weaker civil society now. Now the entire system is closed. In a closed system, what happens covers the entire system, investigators, doctors," said Polyakova.

Vitaly Cherkasov, a human rights lawyer, said that authorities are using threats and administrative punishments - like ‘foreign agent’ status - to keep people from talking. But even with that pressure, information spreads.

Putin has backed himself into a corner.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No he hasn't. Whos going to do anything to him?
More msm propaganda,thats all this is. The fact is that we started this. Here is a video on it listing resources that back up that claim.

youtu.be...

Next time we need to call in all those so called humanitarian organizations that are really hiring protesters and trying to either overthrow governments or ousting elected representatives of their countries. They don't belong anywhere in the world doing that no more than a group has any business telling another country what religion to follow.

a reply to: Dimithae

Maybe you should try reading the entire article since it specifically deals with Russia lying to their people about how their kids were killed fighting in Ukraine when Putin has consistently stated there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.

I know it can be difficult at times so, respectfully, read the source material before giving the automatic propaganda response.

Maybe refute some of the facts in the article while you are at it.


With that said, and to specifically refute the claim you made -
Putin has told the west he has no troops in Ukraine.
Putin has told the people of Russia there are no Russian troops in Ukraine.

He lied to the west.
He lied to the Russian people.

That can result in being hit by the west while being hit from the other direction by the Russian's who lost relatives.

He backed himself into a corner.

It forces him to either continue lying to both groups, or loosing face and coming clean to one of those groups, which would mean being "found out" by both groups at the same time.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: Xcathdra

No he hasn't. Whos going to do anything to him?
More msm propaganda,thats all this is. The fact is that we started this. Here is a video on it listing resources that back up that claim.

youtu.be...

Next time we need to call in all those so called humanitarian organizations that are really hiring protesters and trying to either overthrow governments or ousting elected representatives of their countries. They don't belong anywhere in the world doing that no more than a group has any business telling another country what religion to follow.

So ironic that it's funny, the Propaganda you posted to counter the OP's supposed propaganda. People/Parents in Russia have been saying what the OP is saying for months.

Putin has backed himself into a corner. He's pulling troops back and others "on paid leave" as well. His little BRICS group is not gaining any ground and there is also a lot of bickering between governments within that group. So yes, the Russian economy is tanking.

I foresee another revolution in Russia pretty soon.

a reply to: Dimithae

So this is your reply to the OP...seriously?

They don't belong anywhere in the world doing that no more than a group has any business telling another country what religion to follow.

Just like Russia telling Ukraine they can't join the EU or they lose all Russian support. Sounds a little hypocritical if you ask me.

Why do the pro Russian backers always think their hypocrisy is the only way?

Great, another report with unconfirmed witnesses like we seen so many times before.

Could not be reached, unable to look at the documents, could not be found, and so on.

It must be true then, MSM wouldn`t lie now would they ?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Great, another report with unconfirmed witnesses like we seen so many times before.

Could not be reached, unable to look at the documents, could not be found, and so on.

It must be true then, MSM wouldn`t lie now would they ?

For one section of the report. It does not apply to all incidents, as several other are listed with full names and unit ID's.

Let me ask you -
Are their Russian military forces inside Ukraine who are engaging Ukraine forces on behalf of the rebels?
Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?

It could be that Russia has a policy when it comes to covert operations much like the USA does .In this vid they make mention of the two policies that are being played out in the ME with the different groups they are sponsoring .It's not like the US will give away info on some of their covert troops as to where and how they may have died . www.youtube.com...

a reply to: the2ofusr1

The US policy applies to special forces, not regular military units.

Secondly the topic is the report on Russian citizens demanding answers about dead relatives and has nothing to do with the middle East.

Please try to keep it on topic.

Well maybe Russia has a similar but different policy .In the vid I linked they talk about supporting the PKK because the PKK want to cut off support from Turkey going to ISIS . a reply to: Xcathdra

a reply to: Xcathdra

Besides MSM/Kiev and the West claiming we have no real conformation.

So we just don`t know it, what we do know is the West has set up a furious propaganda war about the whole situation.

And on the other side...

Heavy fighting started again at MH17 crash site and Donetsk airport, according to Dutch reporter who is at MH17 crash site and needed to be rescued because he found himself in the middle of the fighting all of a sudden.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Fair enough but you didnt really answer the questions.

* - Are their Russian military forces inside Ukraine who are engaging Ukraine forces on behalf of the rebels?

* - Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
And on the other side...

Heavy fighting started again at MH17 crash site and Donetsk airport, according to Dutch reporter who is at MH17 crash site and needed to be rescued because he found himself in the middle of the fighting all of a sudden.

Yeah the airport has been an ongoing issue since the cease fire. Ukraine government forces still control it however from media accounts I have seen the airport is pretty much leveled to the ground. There were recent reports of Artillery / MRLS rounds in that area coming into the air port.

As for the crash site - That should have been on area where a 3rd party's military should have gone in and secured it and told both sides to fight somewhere else so the investigation can continue for the sake of the families who lost people on that flight.

If there is anyone who isn't sure the Russians are in the Ukraine with fighting forces......let him think again.....
Meanwhile the hypocrisy is rife on both sides of the coin.....its not good Russia against the bad West....but it aint the other way around either....
I have a real strong suspicion that western mercs and regular military "advisors" are also in the Ukraine.....
Lets stop arranging the deck chairs on the titanic....

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Are the people complaining about dead relatives lying to the media about how and where their relative was killed?"
Many lies are told to dupe people into believing nonsense,and it works! We started a war on them. See below for an example of outright lies told to start a war for the US. This is taken from moyers.com and has been posted on many other sites in their own version. But the facts come out the same. It was all a set up.





A young woman who gave only her first name, Nayira, testified that she had been a volunteer at Kuwait’s al-Adan hospital, where she had seen Iraqi troops rip scores of babies out of incubators, leaving them “to die on the cold floor.” Between tears, she described the incident as “horrifying.”

Her account was a bombshell. Portions of her testimony were aired that evening on ABC’s “Nightline” and NBC’s “Nightly News.” Seven US senators cited her testimony in speeches urging Americans to support the war, and George HW Bush repeated the story on 10 separate occasions in the weeks that followed.

In 2002, Tom Regan wrote about his own family’s response to the story for The Christian Science Monitor:

I can still recall my brother Sean’s face. It was bright red. Furious. Not one given to fits of temper, Sean was in an uproar. He was a father, and he had just heard that Iraqi soldiers had taken scores of babies out of incubators in Kuwait City and left them to die. The Iraqis had shipped the incubators back to Baghdad. A pacifist by nature, my brother was not in a peaceful mood that day. “We’ve got to go and get Saddam Hussein. Now,” he said passionately.

Subsequent investigations by Amnesty International, a division of Human Rights Watch and independent journalists would show that the story was entirely bogus — a crucial piece of war propaganda the American media swallowed hook, line and sinker. Iraqi troops had looted Kuwaiti hospitals, but the gruesome image of babies dying on the floor was a fabrication.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Explain please how if Putin has "put a lid on it" over these dead soldiers,that all these people are able to somehow someway let the west know all about it and give their names etc.?
I mean Putin does better than that,if there was something to hide and he didn't want the west to know, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be hearing a word of it. So I find this VERY odd that all these people have come to the forefront with their complaints.

"Russian authorities have worked to systematically silence rights workers' complaints over soldiers’ deaths, intimidating those who question the Kremlin's denials that its soldiers are in Ukraine."

Really?

a reply to: TDawgRex

Don't hold your breathe. Putin's approval ratings went up another 5 points. In the news yesterday.

a reply to: TDawgRex

I answered this in another reply, if this is so so secret then how is it getting out at all? Russia can do better than that. Heck we kill ours too that we want to really shut up.

a reply to: stirling

The whole problem with it, the Separatists were planning a big counter offensive for months. Ukraine army got their asses kicked and were collapsing. NATO/Kiev/The West needed to have a scape goat for it and immediately started pointing towards Russian involvement.

Personally I wouldn`t be surprised if Russia is helping out with limited support, because of Russia`s earlier remarks regarding Ukraine becoming a Western puppet-state. It still would be comparable as to the US troops now in the ME.

I also have no doubt Russia would send in more if really needed.

But direct Russian involvement in huge scale is not confirmed, even small is hardly confirmed, it might well be really bloated by the West to cover up their failure.

The NATO advisers have been confirmed and mercs are also fighting for ATO.